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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On September 22 2013 01:45 yowza wrote:
'NA stepping up'
All other teams suffer from jetlag and Americans have the homecrowd advantage with TSM fans going as far as shouting to warn them about ganks, yet you call them losing almost all their games 'stepping up'.
Man you sure love pandering to the American audience.
Losing close games is more than many people expected
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On September 22 2013 01:57 Alaric wrote:
But yeah Vulcun beat Fnatic because jetlag.
You say this with sarcasm like this is something unbelievable, somehow completely ignoring that it was fnatic's first game in NA and they just flat out sucked so hard it wasn't even funny. It wasn't vulcun making plays, it was fnatic playing terrible, looking completely off their game.
Their rematch 3 days later showed the sheer disparity in class when fnatic crushed them 17-2 in a staggering 21 minutes. It wasn't even a game, it was a slaughter.
To call this 'stepping up' is just laughable to me.
It seems to be a bit of a trend in American articles when it comes to this tournament, when EU beats KR it's because KR sucks, when KR beats NA it's 'NA stepping up'.
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On September 22 2013 02:19 yowza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 01:57 Alaric wrote:
But yeah Vulcun beat Fnatic because jetlag.
You say this with sarcasm like this is something unbelievable, somehow completely ignoring that it was fnatic's first game in NA and they just flat out sucked so hard it wasn't even funny. It wasn't vulcun making plays, it was fnatic playing terrible, looking completely off their game. Their rematch 3 days later showed the sheer disparity in class when fnatic crushed them 17-2 in a staggering 21 minutes. It wasn't even a game, it was a slaughter. To call this 'stepping up' is just laughable to me. It seems to be a bit of a trend in American articles when it comes to this tournament, when EU beats KR it's because KR sucks, when KR beats NA it's 'NA stepping up'.
You make it sound as if Ozone is a representation of all of KR. lol.
At this point, even CTU would make Ozone it's whipping boy.
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On September 22 2013 02:19 yowza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 01:57 Alaric wrote:
But yeah Vulcun beat Fnatic because jetlag.
You say this with sarcasm like this is something unbelievable, somehow completely ignoring that it was fnatic's first game in NA and they just flat out sucked so hard it wasn't even funny. It wasn't vulcun making plays, it was fnatic playing terrible, looking completely off their game. Their rematch 3 days later showed the sheer disparity in class when fnatic crushed them 17-2 in a staggering 21 minutes. It wasn't even a game, it was a slaughter. To call this 'stepping up' is just laughable to me. It seems to be a bit of a trend in American articles when it comes to this tournament, when EU beats KR it's because KR sucks, when KR beats NA it's 'NA stepping up'.
Ozone #1 team in the world that has been playing stellar in all of their games but EU happened to reach the pinacle of LoL skill and trash them with ease. Sure.
The article's a bit biaised, obviously, since it's been written by only one person, and who knows the NA scene much more than the EU one. But you're doing exactly what you criticise in his writing: to say he's putting NA on too much of a pedestal, you... put EU on an equally big one. You can't make a sensible point to your readers if you don't take a more reasonable stance.
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United States1865 Posts
Just posted on this on reddit but think I need to repost it here:
TL has anything but an NA bias, if anything its the opposite. The feeling leading up to the world finals was that teams like TSM and Vulcun were going to be in the situation Mineski/GGEU ended up in where they simply cant take a single game and look completely outmatched, so when they came out and won games / pushed some games to the limit like they did and it was a VERY big surprise and good for the overall health of the scene that the region considered in the back was catching up.
I originally had one of the #5 stories reserved for Europe but what I realized was it was essentially a Fnatic hype post and there wasn't much I could generalize about the region as a whole - Lemondogs underperformed compared to expectations, Fnatic went all out awesome ballistic, and Gambit is somewhere in the middle and still might have trouble qualifying. I really think it will take more time to get a cohesive storyline on EU.
Also the #1-5 ranking isn't like too serious, its just meant to be 5 very interesting revelations from the first games - personally I found Korea not sweeping the thing to be more crazy than anything else, but wanted a good flow to the story. Hope you enjoyed it even if you are from EU, haha!
Just a TL;DR: Europe has had such a wildly different set of games depending on the team, making it hard to put it into one cohesive storyline, and had much different expectations going into the group. Did anyone honestly think a European team wasn't going to make it out of Group B for example? Fnatic has been absolutely awesome but I didn't wan't to write a whole storyline about just them stomping people.
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Edit: I read the post above mine
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The writing was good but the na fanboyism in here is completely insane... not a single mention of fnatics awesome performance and na are STEPPING IT UP ? I deleted the rest of my post because I wrote bad things but this is honestly ugly 
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I don't think Atrioc saying NA has been a surprise is false. Everyone before group stages was talking like na
might as well not bother show up, and that they wouldn't win a game.
The other thing is that there wouldn't be so many people talking about the mediocre na performance if so many European posters didn't group up and set the expectations for na to be so low. I'd heard na was so awful and bad so many times, and that we wouldn't win a game on any team, and honestly I feel pride knowing that TSM and Vulcan are competitive. especially since side posters went as far as saying that C9 should be stripped of their seeding because NA so far behind.
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10/10 Atrioc =)
PS. Don't let the haters get to you.
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On September 22 2013 03:00 RouaF wrote:The writing was good but the na fanboyism in here is completely insane... not a single mention of fnatics awesome performance and na are STEPPING IT UP ? I deleted the rest of my post because I wrote bad things but this is honestly ugly
Well, apple pie is really good and we are entering apple pie season.
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LOL so many butthurt Europeans in this thread, NA is definitely stepping in up; TSM beat LD and put up a good fight vs SKT, Vulcun beat Fnatic.. Compared to how they used to perform during previous Worlds championship this is way better.
e : no mention of Faker though, made me sad :/
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so much hate towards the writer.
Stop being so insecure.
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I agree with 3); at least from a fan's perspective, having those two teams there is really really lame. I don't mean any disrespect to GG/Minesky, but they're so outclassed that I already know the results to their games beforehand makes it a lot less entertaining to watch. Then there's also another point that they're taking up potential spots of other REAL top teams; imagine having KTB or one of the CJ teams, or World Elite, etc... It would of made the groups MUCH more interesting.
Something missing that I feel should be included is the shitty format of the tournament. Seeding the top teams like this is soooo terrible from the viewer's point of view. If they are the TOP teams, we would no doubt want to see them play more. The way it's set up right now makes this completely opposite. The fact that the best NA team, could be out after playing 2 games is mind blown; seriously? Spent entire 4-6(?) months getting into World Finals, coming all the way here to LA, to play two games?
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That's the problem with articles that try and shed a little positivity. NA is constantly trashed as the weakest, and when finally someone decides to mix in a little positivity, they get dumped on. Why do people enjoy tearing down positive things so much? It's really quite disappointing.
Great article. My most surprising moment was when TSM didn't get absolutely demolished by SKT, and actually won a few teamfights in their first game. Second being the koreans, I was on that korean wagon hard, and they let me down.
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On September 22 2013 03:00 RouaF wrote:The writing was good but the na fanboyism in here is completely insane... not a single mention of fnatics awesome performance and na are STEPPING IT UP ? I deleted the rest of my post because I wrote bad things but this is honestly ugly
Maybe because it's Gambit fucking up more than Fnatic stepping it up, at this point? It shouldn't surprise anyone—if anything, Vulcun were expected to get wrecked, while Mineski is dead last, and Fnatic and Gambit would fight with Ozone on an equal footing for qualification.
Instead, Ozone collapsed entirely, and Gambit are struggling despite this (you wanna know what's ugly? Ozone's play is ugly). If we consider the expectations toward the European teams against top-level Korean teams before the tournament started, then if "level" can't be used to instead describe the treatment the former apply to Ozone it means Europe is actually underperforming.
And Gambit is.
Fnatic? They've been rolling Gambit for months, their results are only to be expected. And because of what happened to Ozone, they can't be used to measure their opponents' success. So Fnatic did exactly what was expected of them (while getting a "bye" as far as form is concerned because they didn't have any opponent to challenge them), while Gambit seemed weaker than usual.
Group B to me is Vulcun stepping it up with their potential (for lack of consistency) and Gambit and Ozone disappointing, not "Fnatic stepping it up" at all.
You've got to realise that when using words like this and measure success, it's results against expectations, so you've got to put the results into perspective (not much praise to get from beating current Ozone) and keep the expectations in mind (you're not improving if you only do what you're supposed/expected to be capable of).
NA fans are delusional to some degree (which we'll see precisely when C9 gets to play, hopefully a Chinese/Korean team), but I've been really annoyed recently with how blusterous the EU fans have been, and how salty/upset they get whenever their outbursts of boasting are denied.
He meant that we need to see a dshield->Tear->Triforce build of some kind by Genja. 
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On September 22 2013 03:49 Fubi wrote:
I agree with 3); at least from a fan's perspective, having those two teams there is really really lame. I don't mean any disrespect to GG/Minesky, but they're so outclassed that I already know the results to their games beforehand makes it a lot less entertaining to watch. Then there's also another point that they're taking up potential spots of other REAL top teams; imagine having KTB or one of the CJ teams, or World Elite, etc... It would of made the groups MUCH more interesting.
Something missing that I feel should be included is the shitty format of the tournament. Seeding the top teams like this is soooo terrible from the viewer's point of view. If they are the TOP teams, we would no doubt want to see them play more. The way it's set up right now makes this completely opposite. The fact that the best NA team, can be out after playing 2 games is mind blown; seriously? Spent entire 4-6(?) months getting into World Finals, coming all the way here to LA, to play two games?
I find it more of a problem that these last placed teams don't even seem to be trying to win now. There's really no incentive for them left aside from placement, and even that may not be enough. They keep saying how it's a learning experience, but I've never seen a 10k deficit in around 10-15 minute mark. That's crazy to think about, but it's been happening with these teams.
You see more interesting games happening in any level of solo queue than you do with how GGeu/Mineski are currently playing.
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TSM is stepping up if getting slight early leads and getting outplayed/toyed with all game by SKT/OMG means stepping up. If Ozone's slump discredits any performances in group B, beating LD should be treated likewise, since they've been similarly underperforming compared to LCS Summer Season/Playoffs. GG.eu is just bad (they can't even make LCS EU qualifiers), whoever predicted them to beat TSM is probably a TSM hater.
Vulcun didn't step up anything. They scored a win against an arrogant, unprepared fnatic, stomped the one of the bottom two teams twice (again, as pointed out in the article, predictably), and got rolled three times (they didn't make it to 30 minutes against Ozone, Gambit and Fnatic in game 2)
On September 22 2013 03:57 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 03:49 Fubi wrote:
I agree with 3); at least from a fan's perspective, having those two teams there is really really lame. I don't mean any disrespect to GG/Minesky, but they're so outclassed that I already know the results to their games beforehand makes it a lot less entertaining to watch. Then there's also another point that they're taking up potential spots of other REAL top teams; imagine having KTB or one of the CJ teams, or World Elite, etc... It would of made the groups MUCH more interesting.
Something missing that I feel should be included is the shitty format of the tournament. Seeding the top teams like this is soooo terrible from the viewer's point of view. If they are the TOP teams, we would no doubt want to see them play more. The way it's set up right now makes this completely opposite. The fact that the best NA team, can be out after playing 2 games is mind blown; seriously? Spent entire 4-6(?) months getting into World Finals, coming all the way here to LA, to play two games? I find it more of a problem that these last placed teams don't even seem to be trying to win now. There's really no incentive for them left aside from placement, and even that may not be enough. They keep saying how it's a learning experience, but I've never seen a 10k deficit in around 10-15 minute mark. That's crazy to think about, but it's been happening with these teams. You see more interesting games happening in any level of solo queue than you do with how GGeu/Mineski are currently playing.
Maybe it's just how big the difference between GG.eu/Mineski and the other teams really is. Sure they might have lost their motivation to try, but they didn't play completely terrible after all. Just "trying hard" doesn't help if you're individually and strategically outmatched so badly
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I also don't agree with all the harsh criticisms of Korean teams. If you look at it objectively, SKT beat everyone else and only lost one game against OMG, whom most people agree are playing like gods. Ozone, is playing really shitty, yes; but you have to consider the recent shift in meta due to this patch literally messed up EVERY one of their lane; Imp, Dade, Homme, all of their best champions got hit one way or another. Then they also lost their coach, as well as their big bro Homme isn't even playing with them for some reason, so for the rest of the relatively young team, it's quite understandable to have nerv issues coming ontop a big foreign stage for their first time. But even despite their shitty performance they only lost to Fnatic, whom is the top of their group, and split 1-1 with Gambit. I can't say that's a TERRIBLE performance; they're still in the running to make it out of the group.
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On September 22 2013 04:03 Fubi wrote:
I also don't agree with all the harsh criticisms of Korean teams. If you look at it objectively, SKT beat everyone else and only lost one game against OMG, whom most people agree are playing like gods.
May point out deeper issues, though. SKT has repeatedly looked shaky Level 1/early game (feeding first bloods etc) but only OMG managed to hold on/snowball their lead since they can compete with SKT on an individual level
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EPT
