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On September 13 2013 09:13 Pantagruel wrote:
I don't know what to think about this really. On the one hand, the best players should be able to qualify for the NA LCS so long as they reside in the United States. On the other hand, if it becomes common occurrence for Korean teams to move to NA/EU to compete in LCS then it will most definitely damage the respective scenes.
A good comparison for those that follow football is the English Premier League and the English national team. The EPL in the last dozen years has had a huge influx of foreign talent largely because of the wealth of the league. Consequently (this is up for debate) the English national side has become weaker and weaker because English talents have not had the opportunities to play and train for the best clubs anymore. It is not uncommon for teams like Chelsea and Arsenal to field 0 English players in their starting line up. Thus, you can see, even for a hugely wealthy, established scene like football in England, importing talent can hinder the progress of young players from the home nation. No doubt the effects will be even stronger in a less established scene like e-sports (as can be seen in sc2).
So, it's a difficult dilemma. Personally I think it's best to wait and see what happens. Since you have to reside in the LCS nation it's probably a big step for many Korean players, not to mention the League scene in Korea is more lucrative I feel like then sc2 for example, and thus less players may be inclined to make that step. Ultimately though, if things get out of hand I think steps should be taken to limit foreign talents from flooding the LCS (not just Koreans). I'd rather develop the NA scene so that future gamers can make a career out of League then watch the highest level of competition in NA. After all, I can always watch OGN.
Seems like a weak argument comparing it to football. There are so many high level leagues that it really doesn't matter too much. Hell look at US soccer which has a shit domestic league compared to the rest of the world and the national team is slowly getting better with more talent depth.
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Nothing will change with this. Seeing as they can't practice vs other Korean teams it's not like they'll come in and Rofl stomp the current Na teams. The may place nr 1 in Lcs at the start (assuming they are actually that much better in the first place) but their skill will definitely deter without more teams having the same type of practice schedule. To be honest I highly doubt they will be playing with the same kind of strict schedule as some of the Korean teams anyway and for the love of god please stop using "faceless korean" as an actual reason why SC2 Na declined
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On September 13 2013 12:19 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 09:13 Pantagruel wrote:
I don't know what to think about this really. On the one hand, the best players should be able to qualify for the NA LCS so long as they reside in the United States. On the other hand, if it becomes common occurrence for Korean teams to move to NA/EU to compete in LCS then it will most definitely damage the respective scenes.
A good comparison for those that follow football is the English Premier League and the English national team. The EPL in the last dozen years has had a huge influx of foreign talent largely because of the wealth of the league. Consequently (this is up for debate) the English national side has become weaker and weaker because English talents have not had the opportunities to play and train for the best clubs anymore. It is not uncommon for teams like Chelsea and Arsenal to field 0 English players in their starting line up. Thus, you can see, even for a hugely wealthy, established scene like football in England, importing talent can hinder the progress of young players from the home nation. No doubt the effects will be even stronger in a less established scene like e-sports (as can be seen in sc2).
So, it's a difficult dilemma. Personally I think it's best to wait and see what happens. Since you have to reside in the LCS nation it's probably a big step for many Korean players, not to mention the League scene in Korea is more lucrative I feel like then sc2 for example, and thus less players may be inclined to make that step. Ultimately though, if things get out of hand I think steps should be taken to limit foreign talents from flooding the LCS (not just Koreans). I'd rather develop the NA scene so that future gamers can make a career out of League then watch the highest level of competition in NA. After all, I can always watch OGN. Seems like a weak argument comparing it to football. There are so many high level leagues that it really doesn't matter too much. Hell look at US soccer which has a shit domestic league compared to the rest of the world and the national team is slowly getting better with more talent depth.
Why is it a weak argument comparing it to football? The fact that there are a few other high level leagues around the world is not really relevant to the situation in England. In Spain for example, another high level league, the percentage of Spanish players on their domestic teams is vastly higher then in England. The Spanish national team is the best in the world right now. Furthermore, amusingly enough, the US domestic soccer league is improving recently with quite a few talented younger players breaking through into the national team and they limit the number of foreign players allowed on the team stringently. This more or less proves my point.
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yeah but spanish soccer players are actually good. i think england's inferiority to spain in developing football talent starts way before a young english player ever gets near competing for a premier league starting 11 spot.
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On September 13 2013 13:22 chalice wrote:
yeah but spanish soccer players are actually good. i think england's inferiority to spain in developing football talent starts way before a young english player ever gets near competing for a premier league starting 11 spot.
Maybe. They have a Dutch training system set up by Johan Cruijf essentially which starts at an extremely young age. Nonetheless, aside from Barcelona and Real Madrid (although that's beginning to change now too with teams like Malaga) no one in Spain can buy foreign talent. Even if they wanted to buy better players they couldn't. This forces them to work with domestic players and improve them. Even lower end premier league clubs buy foreign players in droves for millions of euros. I think it's pretty much undeniable that mass importation of foreign talent will weaken your domestic scene. I'm not saying that's going to happen in League, but I'd definately be wary about it.
With that said, I'm kind of excited to see how Loco's team fares in NA LCS if they make it in. I'm thinking they will fight with c9 for 1st in the league, maybe with Vulcun for 2nd if Vulcun polishes a bit. I look forward to watching s4.
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Looking at what a mess the sc2 scene is, i hope riot puts out some sort of restrictions to prevent the huge influx of koreans, maybe some rule like having at least 3 NA citizens for a team to qualify for NA LCS.
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On September 13 2013 06:32 Kuja900 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 04:05 UmberBane wrote:
So my take on all of this is simple:
If top NA teams would get their asses kicked by several low (possibly non Champions level) tier KR teams, it would be sad, but also quite unlikely in my opinion. They have all the tools to step it up if Koreans come to NA to play and practice. In SC2 foreigners are fucked because many of them don't nearly have the infrastructure that LCS teams have nowadays. The difference to SC2 is that the really good teams (at least top 16) will want to stay in Korea no matter what in the future, because the money/exposure/fans/everything you can get there is better than in the West. In SC2 this isn't the case anymore, because the Korean SC2 audience is very small, while the foreign SC2 audience is big in comparison.
If more Koreans were to decide to come to NA to play there, it would only be bottom tier pro teams. And if NA can't handle them, I don't know what to tell you. LCS teams have the best chances out of any foreigner scene to step it up and compete with the Koreans and I believe because of that they will at least be able to fend off a low tier Korean "invasion". Ultimately this might be the kick in the ass that NA needs to get more competitive as a whole. Teams like C9 already show promise of how new talent can be fostered and kick complete ass, and I'm sure there are more teams like C9 that will evolve from the NA talent pool over time, especially if the region gets more competitive overall. EU>NA still, you remove the aberration that is Cloud 9 and its not even close :|
I think you might have replied to the wrong comment 
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In Chinese forum, they are asking why don't cloudtempler join them? He is pretty much over in Korea
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Meh I guess/hope he is going to become a coach for CJ when he is retiring. I'm confident that he'd be a very good coach and analyst and probably serve the team way more than with his (by Korean standards) mediocre jungling.
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Oh boy, and here I was thinking Riot is not as stupid as Blizz. Such a terrible decision if they let them in... just make a rule that 3 out of the 5 starting members must be from that region, and problem solved.
As much as I like to shit on NA, I don't want this to come through. Watching bad vs bad plays is entertaining, but watching stomps - and listening to the "they shouldn't be allowed in the NA LCS!" rant every time - will bore me to death soon enough. And what is this talk about NA needing to shape up and Quantic might force them to do so? There are two possibilities:
1. NA teams are self-aware that they are pretty terrible, and are trying to genuenly improve (is Kiwikid fired yet?), not just the usual media bullshit.
2. NA teams are ignorant, and will always find something to hide behind, in this case: "We are actually pretty good, but they have weird eyes, that completely throw us off" - and it's a nobrainer which side will the fans support. Goodguy Scarra, Regibro, pillowmaster Dyrus, so cool and sexy Stvicious, best individual entity in the whole universe doublelift, donger qtpie, or the warmonger Korean invaders.
I'm surprised that Riot would willing to show such weakness in their PR machine. If they wanted to humiliate the NA scene, then just make room for some cross-region tournaments, where they make sure at least one of the three main regions can't participate, so it won't be a mini-Worlds.
This is terrible in every possible aspect, and Riot should actively work againts it, before it gets out of hand and they'll be forced to either look racist, or stick with a fucked up league.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i don't think sc2 is flailing because le koreans are invading. that's more the impression of those who are already interested in sc2 and are unhappy that their american stars are getting crowded out. it is not an accurate assessment of why the game is not spreading in popularity.
maybe it's just not as good of a game as people thought
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Don't worry there won't be masses of koreans suddenly deciding that they can form a team in a foreign country and live there for the majority of the year lol. This case is pretty special imo because they probably felt comfortable with Loco, also Woong has a lot of experience being a proplayer so the other 3 probably trust them with this decision, but we won't have a random ranked5 of 5 korean 17 year-olds moving to NA to qualify for LCS.
Also while I'm a pretty big korea fanboy a statement like from lastshadow ("any ro8 team from NLB>>top NA Teams) is just dumb. I'm also not expecting Quantic to dominate LCS like C9 did this split but they will be good.
ByeBye VES.
pretty hyped for tonight's match, more than for gg.eu vs TSM :D would be funny if they played with lvl 20 accounts and beat Coast with limited runes/masteries :D
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Haha, I like Nick a lot, but he goes a little overboard with his KR versus NA comparisons from time to time.
Where can I watch tonight's match btw? Completely went over my head.
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On September 13 2013 17:06 UmberBane wrote:
Meh I guess/hope he is going to become a coach for CJ when he is retiring. I'm confident that he'd be a very good coach and analyst and probably serve the team way more than with his (by Korean standards) mediocre jungling.
He's still a brilliant jungler and he's been trying to adapt. But maybe his age is too old for such an active position in today's meta. I was thinking the same that I hope he becomes a CJ coach.
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On September 14 2013 00:23 UmberBane wrote:Haha, I like Nick a lot, but he goes a little overboard with his KR versus NA comparisons from time to time. Where can I watch tonight's match btw? Completely went over my head.
Here yo
http://www.twitch.tv/gglaTV
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On September 14 2013 00:24 glzElectromaster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2013 00:23 UmberBane wrote:Haha, I like Nick a lot, but he goes a little overboard with his KR versus NA comparisons from time to time. Where can I watch tonight's match btw? Completely went over my head. Here yo http://www.twitch.tv/gglaTV
in how many hours?
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On September 14 2013 00:50 Chexx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2013 00:24 glzElectromaster wrote:On September 14 2013 00:23 UmberBane wrote:Haha, I like Nick a lot, but he goes a little overboard with his KR versus NA comparisons from time to time. Where can I watch tonight's match btw? Completely went over my head. Here yo http://www.twitch.tv/gglaTV in how many hours?
I think in 3h10m according to chat.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
and thats too late for me :<
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On September 14 2013 00:58 Chexx wrote:
and thats too late for me :<
Well they have free vods, so you should be able to check it out tomorrow.
Is anyone else watching the game?
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EPT
