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Thing is, if he just keeps shoving and shoving into tower (like they do most of the time) the lane will end up pushing toward him, and there's not much to do except bait him into using Q on you near the wave or something.
Also since he seems impossible to trade with early game, I feel like every bit of damage I take is "free" since retaliating will only make it worse (ignoring his Q, his passive is likely to outdamage even burning counterstrike or hiten style early on if it gets to 5 stacks), which means I can't really get close to him, especially if he tries slow pushing: I'll have to miss a bunch of the early cs, and have a huge wave in my tower. It also makes it very hard to back since it means at least a full wave in my tower (he doesn't lose much since both Jax and Irelia don't clear fast).
Granted, maybe it's because of the typical jungler I get who won't gank, or gank right as the wave pushing the tower, so either I follow (and won't kill anyway as it often means I'm a level behind early on) or I miss a whole lot of farm (including exp) to the tower.
He's probably stronger at level 6 too, so should I just farm what I can till level 8-9 and hope the cs gap isn't too big by then that my items aren't behind?
I guess I should try starting dshield+pot, 9-21-0 masteries, and AD marks and quints (I tend to go armour quints against him) to make my last hitting windows as large as possible, and focus on farming under tower while calling my jungler off if he comes during a huge wave. Then wait till I finish triforce or BotRK before even attempting to fight him. Thing is by that time he'll probably have boots2+Sunfire and I'm not even sure at which level I can't start beating that.
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On September 06 2013 22:32 Alaric wrote:
Thing is, if he just keeps shoving and shoving into tower (like they do most of the time) the lane will end up pushing toward him, and there's not much to do except bait him into using Q on you near the wave or something.
Also since he seems impossible to trade with early game, I feel like every bit of damage I take is "free" since retaliating will only make it worse (ignoring his Q, his passive is likely to outdamage even burning counterstrike or hiten style early on if it gets to 5 stacks), which means I can't really get close to him, especially if he tries slow pushing: I'll have to miss a bunch of the early cs, and have a huge wave in my tower. It also makes it very hard to back since it means at least a full wave in my tower (he doesn't lose much since both Jax and Irelia don't clear fast).
Granted, maybe it's because of the typical jungler I get who won't gank, or gank right as the wave pushing the tower, so either I follow (and won't kill anyway as it often means I'm a level behind early on) or I miss a whole lot of farm (including exp) to the tower.
He's probably stronger at level 6 too, so should I just farm what I can till level 8-9 and hope the cs gap isn't too big by then that my items aren't behind?
I guess I should try starting dshield+pot, 9-21-0 masteries, and AD marks and quints (I tend to go armour quints against him) to make my last hitting windows as large as possible, and focus on farming under tower while calling my jungler off if he comes during a huge wave. Then wait till I finish triforce or BotRK before even attempting to fight him. Thing is by that time he'll probably have boots2+Sunfire and I'm not even sure at which level I can't start beating that.
Source?
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The thing is, you can't go melee against darius without surrendering your lane or having a good camp from jungler.
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On September 06 2013 23:49 FrostRyan wrote:
The thing is, you can't go melee against darius without surrendering your lane or having a good camp from jungler.
Darius is pretty easy to gank early on. He pushes really early if he wants to harass.
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On September 06 2013 23:54 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 23:49 FrostRyan wrote:
The thing is, you can't go melee against darius without surrendering your lane or having a good camp from jungler. Darius is pretty easy to gank early on. He pushes really early if he wants to harass.
thats assuming ur jungler knows whats he is doing, u would be surprised how many of them dont know shit about jungling
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On September 06 2013 21:25 Alaric wrote:
Is there any remote way for Jax or Irelia to beat Darius, or at least not have to surrender most of the farm until the wave reaches the tower?
I don't even know at which levels I'm supposed to be stronger than his damn passive.
Didn't wickd say that the only way to beat Darius is to all him at level 5 because you have no hope of beating him at 6? Irelia has too many tough matchups in top lane, buff pls
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On September 06 2013 23:36 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 22:32 Alaric wrote:
Thing is, if he just keeps shoving and shoving into tower (like they do most of the time) the lane will end up pushing toward him, and there's not much to do except bait him into using Q on you near the wave or something.
Also since he seems impossible to trade with early game, I feel like every bit of damage I take is "free" since retaliating will only make it worse (ignoring his Q, his passive is likely to outdamage even burning counterstrike or hiten style early on if it gets to 5 stacks), which means I can't really get close to him, especially if he tries slow pushing: I'll have to miss a bunch of the early cs, and have a huge wave in my tower. It also makes it very hard to back since it means at least a full wave in my tower (he doesn't lose much since both Jax and Irelia don't clear fast).
Granted, maybe it's because of the typical jungler I get who won't gank, or gank right as the wave pushing the tower, so either I follow (and won't kill anyway as it often means I'm a level behind early on) or I miss a whole lot of farm (including exp) to the tower.
He's probably stronger at level 6 too, so should I just farm what I can till level 8-9 and hope the cs gap isn't too big by then that my items aren't behind?
I guess I should try starting dshield+pot, 9-21-0 masteries, and AD marks and quints (I tend to go armour quints against him) to make my last hitting windows as large as possible, and focus on farming under tower while calling my jungler off if he comes during a huge wave. Then wait till I finish triforce or BotRK before even attempting to fight him. Thing is by that time he'll probably have boots2+Sunfire and I'm not even sure at which level I can't start beating that. Source?
Well as I mentioned, I post here because I have a lack of sources aside from my personal experience and I'm definitely not knowledgeable enough to make the most out of the match-up. ;p
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United States37500 Posts
On September 06 2013 23:54 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 23:49 FrostRyan wrote:
The thing is, you can't go melee against darius without surrendering your lane or having a good camp from jungler. Darius is pretty easy to gank early on. He pushes really early if he wants to harass.
plz... do you even Crippling Strike?
If you use Decimate pre-level 3, you're f'ing bad at Darius. You can easily posture in lane and get respect without shoving your lane early.
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Damn, I'd watch nothing but qtpie stream if it wasn't for the music. I cant stand it 
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On September 07 2013 00:02 MattBarry wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 21:25 Alaric wrote:
Is there any remote way for Jax or Irelia to beat Darius, or at least not have to surrender most of the farm until the wave reaches the tower?
I don't even know at which levels I'm supposed to be stronger than his damn passive. Didn't wickd say that the only way to beat Darius is to all him at level 5 because you have no hope of beating him at 6? Irelia has too many tough matchups in top lane, buff pls
Played the matchup many times as irelia. That's the ONLY way to be darius. Maybe at level 4. But the whole allin relies on darius having expended a cooldown(Q or W) on creeps and not having a large creep advantage. Otherwise he probably is still going to win or at the very minimum trade evenly. And no good darius is going to let you get a level advantage without jungler intervention or you succeeding that allin
Basically if you win at level 5, and force him to base, you should hit 6 first. Push that advantage as hard as you can, because post-6, darius can win even with a level/item disadvantage.
And the matchup is pretty hopeless without jungler intervention post-6 unless the darius screws big time before that.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
Would you guys be interested in a weekly(?) post about Fanart from Korea?
I would collect fanart and make similar to our writeups a small post.
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On September 06 2013 15:21 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2013 15:16 sylverfyre wrote:On September 06 2013 10:45 sung_moon wrote:On September 06 2013 10:19 Nos- wrote:
man just watched ogn, trinity is the new bc I just bought it 2nd item on Vayne (after BoTRK) just to see what would happen. Goddamn that 200% Sheen proc be chunking. And speaking of OGN, I bought and started playing Ahri for first time a few games ago. Jungler also happens to pick Vi. Goddam are those ganks so scary. You haven't been properly dunked until you've eaten a Vi->Ahri combo. Fizz would like to talk.
Fizz doesn't dunk you, his shark just eats you.
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On September 07 2013 00:49 Chexx wrote:
Would you guys be interested in a weekly(?) post about Fanart from Korea?
I would collect fanart and make similar to our writeups a small post.
By the way, absolutely yes.
You keep asking these types of questions and the answer is always yes x
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So basically I'm better off learning a 3rd top laner that does better against stuff like Darius or Nasus than my two current ones. ;_;
I've got some nice rests from Pantheon but he just wouldn't cut it considering how hard he has to snowball, and how easily Darius can just trololo his way to the bank, build tanky and still deal more damage by virtue of mixed big base damage. Prob too snowball reliant to attempt on a regular basis.
How would you all-in him at 4-5? Off a dshield/cloth start, using the sustain to build a bigger wave before hitting the key level, making sure to hit the stun? Sounds like a hideous match-up anyway, where 5 isn't so much the level where you can beat him than the one where you're less likely to just die without him breaking a sweat, reading the posts.
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United States23745 Posts
If you hate joke skins you hate fun.
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On September 07 2013 01:09 Alaric wrote:
So basically I'm better off learning a 3rd top laner that does better against stuff like Darius or Nasus than my two current ones. ;_;
I've got some nice rests from Pantheon but he just wouldn't cut it considering how hard he has to snowball, and how easily Darius can just trololo his way to the bank, build tanky and still deal more damage by virtue of mixed big base damage. Prob too snowball reliant to attempt on a regular basis.
How would you all-in him at 4-5? Off a dshield/cloth start, using the sustain to build a bigger wave before hitting the key level, making sure to hit the stun? Sounds like a hideous match-up anyway, where 5 isn't so much the level where you can beat him than the one where you're less likely to just die without him breaking a sweat, reading the posts.
Generally I prefer cloth 4+1 mana pot. You should be playing defensively enough that the 4 pots is enough, the mana lets you have enough to ult at 6 no matter what happened before that(having to use Q to pick up last hits, having to stun a lot, etc)
As for how to execute the allin, you still need good variables, with an even or advantageous creepwave, basically wait for darius to use either Q or W, preferably with a low creep nearby that you can instantly jump to, ignite(if this doesn't work, your ignite is pretty useless anyways), stun/slow, and just auto, saving Q to catch up. If they don't use Q or W, then it gets a lot dicier. You can still win, but it gets a lot harder, and you still need to go for the allin, to at least force darius to base. If at all possible, you want to hit 6 first after basing(this pretty much requires you to have killed the guy) and instantly allin again before he hits 6.
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On September 07 2013 01:09 Alaric wrote:
So basically I'm better off learning a 3rd top laner that does better against stuff like Darius or Nasus than my two current ones. ;_;
I've got some nice rests from Pantheon but he just wouldn't cut it considering how hard he has to snowball, and how easily Darius can just trololo his way to the bank, build tanky and still deal more damage by virtue of mixed big base damage. Prob too snowball reliant to attempt on a regular basis.
How would you all-in him at 4-5? Off a dshield/cloth start, using the sustain to build a bigger wave before hitting the key level, making sure to hit the stun? Sounds like a hideous match-up anyway, where 5 isn't so much the level where you can beat him than the one where you're less likely to just die without him breaking a sweat, reading the posts.
I go Dorans Blade with life steal quints and try to kill him at level 5. There is no other hope if you don't get him then
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On September 07 2013 01:36 onlywonderboy wrote:
If you hate joke skins you hate fun.
Somebody call Craton
On September 07 2013 01:09 Alaric wrote:
So basically I'm better off learning a 3rd top laner that does better against stuff like Darius or Nasus than my two current ones. ;_;
I've got some nice rests from Pantheon but he just wouldn't cut it considering how hard he has to snowball, and how easily Darius can just trololo his way to the bank, build tanky and still deal more damage by virtue of mixed big base damage. Prob too snowball reliant to attempt on a regular basis.
How would you all-in him at 4-5? Off a dshield/cloth start, using the sustain to build a bigger wave before hitting the key level, making sure to hit the stun? Sounds like a hideous match-up anyway, where 5 isn't so much the level where you can beat him than the one where you're less likely to just die without him breaking a sweat, reading the posts.
IMO Teeto. Gud vs Darius gogogo
Really though I would suggest Zed. He's a tragically underutilized toplaner, and is also incredibly safe. Also when facing Nasus things get lulzy. I imagine he does well versus Darius too, but I haven't seen Darius used a lot recently.
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I'm not the best Darius, but I've always had a hard time vs Cho since he has sustain and I feel like he has more burst and he can harass me a lot from outside my range with scream.
I often think Darius' early levels are over-exaggerated. His passive does like 12 damage on autos and Qs. That's not lane wrecking. And his E does no damage and if you get in close to him his Q won't do full damage. If you guys keep this discussion up, Darius is going to get nerfed some more.
Something I've noticed in solo queue is that the best junglers are the ones that build damage and scale well with it. I think the added damage makes ganks far more likely to succeed. Eg. full offensive Rengar has more burst than a tanky Rammus or Nasus. This makes it far easier to snowball lanes on a squishy jungler than a defensive jungler. I can understand 4th position jungler not being worth an offensive slot on a team, but having tanky junglers with no damage ganks really makes the game more passive because less people die to ganks. Thankfully most junglers are too greedy not to build some damage early game. In competitive builds are like Golem into SV.
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can someone explain to me why 0/9/21 is better than 0/21/9 on hecarim jangle? seems like the defensive tree would make you a heck of a lot tankier :o
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EPT
