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On September 30 2013 12:15 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 12:06 wei2coolman wrote:On September 30 2013 11:57 iCanada wrote:
I dont understand how people do well with support morg.
Zero lane presence. Absolutely Zero.
That binding impossible to land. Bindings are homing missles, don't ya know? Lol, yeah I dont know. I still remember when I started playing and Morg was considered like ZOMG ridiculous OP. I remember like 1400-1500 elo players getting FB'd by Morg 1v1 and just looking at her kit and being like "But how?" Morgana has like zero kill potential, and while her teamfight is really strong I think as a support she lacklustre because she cannot really compare to Zyra most of the time. Zyra ult does same as Morg ult but Zyra not a moving target whole time, and then despite the lack of shield your AD usually just stronger because you probably did a lot better in lane. EDIT: Kind of depressing, I've been a rather mediocre player for a very very long time and seen very little improvement. QQ. Forever 1400.
1) It's a situational support that works extremely well at countering certain champions. Zyra is a better pick overall as a generalist, but if she's up against a Corki/Leona lane, she has a high probability of getting blown up, especially if the jungle has heavy gank pressure. Contrast with Morgana, whom effectively neutralizes all the gank pressure and kill potential Leona offers, rendering her effectively useless (then it comes down to Range vs Melee, and Bindings). You just Black Shield whomever Leona Es to and walk away, then retaliate AA damage/snares/etc.
2) Morg Bindings are easier to hit than you think, all you need to do is predict movement (like when the enemy ADC is going for CS, when they're approaching you, etc). It's a significant CC as is, so landing just one gives you the opening for a major trade.
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Morg can actually very easily kill you 1v1 at lvl 6 if you don't respect her. Flash ult into chain binding does a surprising amount of damage, and the champions that were popular at the time didn't have the insane amount of mobility as it's common now. That's how I remember getting killed by Morg and how I killed others with Morg like two+ years ago.
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On September 30 2013 12:15 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 12:06 wei2coolman wrote:On September 30 2013 11:57 iCanada wrote:
I dont understand how people do well with support morg.
Zero lane presence. Absolutely Zero.
That binding impossible to land. Bindings are homing missles, don't ya know? Lol, yeah I dont know. I still remember when I started playing and Morg was considered like ZOMG ridiculous OP. I remember like 1400-1500 elo players getting FB'd by Morg 1v1 and just looking at her kit and being like "But how?" Morgana has like zero kill potential, and while her teamfight is really strong I think as a support she lacklustre because she cannot really compare to Zyra most of the time. Zyra ult does same as Morg ult but Zyra not a moving target whole time, and then despite the lack of shield your AD usually just stronger because you probably did a lot better in lane. EDIT: Kind of depressing, I've been a rather mediocre player for a very very long time and seen very little improvement. QQ. Forever 1400.
I'm honestly starting to think that 1350-1400 (ie high silver/low gold) is a spot a lot of players get stuck in. I've been stuck there for almost a year now with very little improvement, and I know others who are in the same situation.
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1350-1400 Elo is closer to Silver II-III than high silver/low gold actually, remember Gold cutoff was 1500 or 1520 at that time.
Dark Binding has a very significant wind-up time so it's rather easy to avoid if you telegraph it and people have no constraints (like a corridor in the jungle, the tower and creeps messing up the pathing, etc.) but the point is to either attack from a blind spot (using the corner in mid) or use these constraints to raise the threat of a Dark Binding (as support, "if you focus on dodging it it won't hit, but if you're going for that siege minion I'll know it and the risk of getting rooted will be way higher, do you take it?").
And then it has decent projectile speed, huge range (1300, most linear skillshots are 1000-1100), long cc time and great damage (both base and ratio).
Also the point of a Morgana lane was to put her with a really strong AD carry to switch her black shield from defense to offense: during her brief stint she was paired with Draven or Twitch (who were nerfed since) because they're strong enough on their own if they manage to actually get in range, and Black Shield is only there to prevent them from being disengaged on/peeled (Zyra is good versus Draven because she can just root him when he tries to get in range, but you can't do it to Draven with BS).
You had something close to this at some point after Graves' release where he'd be paired with Soraka to offset his mana consumption when spamming Q and the harass from his low range, and then he'd basically 1v2 the lane by abusing Buckshot's pushing power and his passive to win trades.
When Morgana was popular as a mid laner... well, you can't compare it with now. I don't remember who it was who posted a bunch about her recently in her champion thread, but you can check it.
She's not good in the current meta, but even discounting it power creep has shafted her pretty harshly.
Popular sustain opening and strong assassins respectively reduce the relative efficiency of her sustain or nullify it (healing over time doesn't matter when you get bursted down)
The fact that every new champion has some kind of dash and the ability to one-shot the creep waves pretty quickly, coupled with mana costs far lower than Tormented Soil, means that her strengths (her ult and her wave clear) are neutralised by most of the mid lane dwellers.
She didn't need to hit a Binding because with champions having either shorter range or weaker clear, there'd be a point where if you fuck up she walks straight into ult range and then force your flash or combos you. If you eat a Binding it only makes it easier, of course (the roster at that time couldn't deal with her as effortlessly as now so she had ways of making you expose yourself to a binding if you wanted to get all the minions) since she has high enough base damage that a single QW combo would put you in kill range for when they're back up.
Even at that time, she was only popular as a laner (as a teamfighter it's different, and the meta made her really strong) because people would try to stick to their guns. There were a bunch of champions that would simply outpush her because they'd kill the wave in less than 5 seconds (or not let it round up to begin with, like TF) and it makes her pushing power drop from top of the mill (at the time) to 0, for example Mordekaiser, Malzahar, Gragas, Lux (with a hefty amount of AP tho), Brand, etc. The way Tormented Soil works makes her pushing power really binary.
But they weren't popular and people kept whining about how Morgana is invincible is lane and pushes you and they refused to simply put her under her tower and outpush/roam her.
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On September 30 2013 12:47 Cheap0 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 12:15 iCanada wrote:On September 30 2013 12:06 wei2coolman wrote:On September 30 2013 11:57 iCanada wrote:
I dont understand how people do well with support morg.
Zero lane presence. Absolutely Zero.
That binding impossible to land. Bindings are homing missles, don't ya know? Lol, yeah I dont know. I still remember when I started playing and Morg was considered like ZOMG ridiculous OP. I remember like 1400-1500 elo players getting FB'd by Morg 1v1 and just looking at her kit and being like "But how?" Morgana has like zero kill potential, and while her teamfight is really strong I think as a support she lacklustre because she cannot really compare to Zyra most of the time. Zyra ult does same as Morg ult but Zyra not a moving target whole time, and then despite the lack of shield your AD usually just stronger because you probably did a lot better in lane. EDIT: Kind of depressing, I've been a rather mediocre player for a very very long time and seen very little improvement. QQ. Forever 1400. I'm honestly starting to think that 1350-1400 (ie high silver/low gold) is a spot a lot of players get stuck in. I've been stuck there for almost a year now with very little improvement, and I know others who are in the same situation.
There's a lot of people 'stuck' at any ELO you care to mention.
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ELO hell is whenever you feel frustrated.
ELO hell is then Riot's servers, actually.
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Just looked at my league, same division as req and fakesteve.
not sure how I feel about this.
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On September 30 2013 12:58 Alaric wrote:
1350-1400 Elo is closer to Silver II-III than high silver/low gold actually, remember Gold cutoff was 1500 or 1520 at that time.
Dark Binding has a very significant wind-up time so it's rather easy to avoid if you telegraph it and people have no constraints (like a corridor in the jungle, the tower and creeps messing up the pathing, etc.) but the point is to either attack from a blind spot (using the corner in mid) or use these constraints to raise the threat of a Dark Binding (as support, "if you focus on dodging it it won't hit, but if you're going for that siege minion I'll know it and the risk of getting rooted will be way higher, do you take it?").
And then it has decent projectile speed, huge range (1300, most linear skillshots are 1000-1100), long cc time and great damage (both base and ratio).
Also the point of a Morgana lane was to put her with a really strong AD carry to switch her black shield from defense to offense: during her brief stint she was paired with Draven or Twitch (who were nerfed since) because they're strong enough on their own if they manage to actually get in range, and Black Shield is only there to prevent them from being disengaged on/peeled (Zyra is good versus Draven because she can just root him when he tries to get in range, but you can't do it to Draven with BS).
You had something close to this at some point after Graves' release where he'd be paired with Soraka to offset his mana consumption when spamming Q and the harass from his low range, and then he'd basically 1v2 the lane by abusing Buckshot's pushing power and his passive to win trades.
When Morgana was popular as a mid laner... well, you can't compare it with now. I don't remember who it was who posted a bunch about her recently in her champion thread, but you can check it.
She's not good in the current meta, but even discounting it power creep has shafted her pretty harshly.
Popular sustain opening and strong assassins respectively reduce the relative efficiency of her sustain or nullify it (healing over time doesn't matter when you get bursted down)
The fact that every new champion has some kind of dash and the ability to one-shot the creep waves pretty quickly, coupled with mana costs far lower than Tormented Soil, means that her strengths (her ult and her wave clear) are neutralised by most of the mid lane dwellers.
She didn't need to hit a Binding because with champions having either shorter range or weaker clear, there'd be a point where if you fuck up she walks straight into ult range and then force your flash or combos you. If you eat a Binding it only makes it easier, of course (the roster at that time couldn't deal with her as effortlessly as now so she had ways of making you expose yourself to a binding if you wanted to get all the minions) since she has high enough base damage that a single QW combo would put you in kill range for when they're back up.
Even at that time, she was only popular as a laner (as a teamfighter it's different, and the meta made her really strong) because people would try to stick to their guns. There were a bunch of champions that would simply outpush her because they'd kill the wave in less than 5 seconds (or not let it round up to begin with, like TF) and it makes her pushing power drop from top of the mill (at the time) to 0, for example Mordekaiser, Malzahar, Gragas, Lux (with a hefty amount of AP tho), Brand, etc. The way Tormented Soil works makes her pushing power really binary.
But they weren't popular and people kept whining about how Morgana is invincible is lane and pushes you and they refused to simply put her under her tower and outpush/roam her.
If that's the case then I more like 1500-1600 now then I suppose, maybe I not forever 1400.
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On September 30 2013 13:10 wei2coolman wrote:
Just looked at my league, same division as req and fakesteve.
not sure how I feel about this.
90% of Gold TLers are in Taric's Enforcers.
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On September 30 2013 13:12 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 13:10 wei2coolman wrote:
Just looked at my league, same division as req and fakesteve.
not sure how I feel about this. 90% of Gold TLers are in Taric's Enforcers.
Just means I need to hit Plat.
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AT LEAST YOU'RE NOT ALONE
Or in Yorick's Arrows, for that matter. I didn't deserve that. qq
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On September 30 2013 13:13 Alaric wrote:
AT LEAST YOU'RE NOT ALONE
Or in Yorick's Arrows, for that matter. I didn't deserve that. qq
Fabulous > gouls.
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Rammus's Masterminds TL division.
Soniv can never leave.
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On September 30 2013 12:58 Alaric wrote:
1350-1400 Elo is closer to Silver II-III than high silver/low gold actually, remember Gold cutoff was 1500 or 1520 at that time.
If we go by lolking numbers, Silver 1 is about 1450 where your MMR is constantly facing people in their placements to gold, often getting more than 1 in a game. I'm at Silver 1 1450 lolking score.
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1350-1450 should be about the point where the second derivative of the distribution goes positive again so it makes sense that a lot of people get stuck there (or just after)
Basically this means that the ratio of that density of that point to the next will be the highest for any point in the distribution. And that basically means that many people relatively find that to be their skill cap.
In practice it means they don't know how to play AP support Janna
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yo gold 3 amumu shadehunters is where all da swag is at
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On September 30 2013 14:10 Goumindong wrote:
1350-1450 should be about the point where the second derivative of the distribution goes positive again so it makes sense that a lot of people get stuck there (or just after)
Basically this means that the ratio of that density of that point to the next will be the highest for any point in the distribution. And that basically means that many people relatively find that to be their skill cap.
In practice it means they don't know how to play AP support Janna
There's a lot of people stuck there because Gold 5 players can't get demoted. Silver 1 and Bronze 1 are packed compared to Silver 2 or Silver 3 or Bronze 3.
There's as many people in Gold 5 as in Gold 3 and 4 combined.
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/search?q=distribution divisions&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all
Bronze 1 is the biggest ELO hell according to this graph, but the silver players are probably more active on forums.
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On September 30 2013 12:40 koreasilver wrote:
Morg can actually very easily kill you 1v1 at lvl 6 if you don't respect her. Flash ult into chain binding does a surprising amount of damage, and the champions that were popular at the time didn't have the insane amount of mobility as it's common now. That's how I remember getting killed by Morg and how I killed others with Morg like two+ years ago.
Why do I hear everyone now talk about "respect" when they just mean "being careful"? It's not like a player is being polite by not engaging in a 1v1... It's become a buzzword, particularly among the worlds casters. Weird.
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On September 30 2013 14:20 scFoX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 12:40 koreasilver wrote:
Morg can actually very easily kill you 1v1 at lvl 6 if you don't respect her. Flash ult into chain binding does a surprising amount of damage, and the champions that were popular at the time didn't have the insane amount of mobility as it's common now. That's how I remember getting killed by Morg and how I killed others with Morg like two+ years ago. Why do I hear everyone now talk about "respect" when they just mean "being careful"? It's not like a player is being polite by not engaging in a 1v1... It's become a buzzword, particularly among the worlds casters. Weird.
Yo dawg, d-one be disrespeccing me or I'm gonna muthaf******* in da face! Trick2G Peace OUT!
Also:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IOxl1hy.png)
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On September 30 2013 14:20 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 14:10 Goumindong wrote:
1350-1450 should be about the point where the second derivative of the distribution goes positive again so it makes sense that a lot of people get stuck there (or just after)
Basically this means that the ratio of that density of that point to the next will be the highest for any point in the distribution. And that basically means that many people relatively find that to be their skill cap.
In practice it means they don't know how to play AP support Janna There's a lot of people stuck there because Gold 5 players can't get demoted. Silver 1 and Bronze 1 are packed compared to Silver 2 or Silver 3 or Bronze 3. There's as many people in Gold 5 as in Gold 3 and 4 combined. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/search?q=distribution divisions&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=allBronze 1 is the biggest ELO hell according to this graph, but the silver players are probably more active on forums.
The league you're in does not have anything to do with your mmr or the distribution of those mmrs. Since it's mmr that determines matchmaking and actually winning games that determines making it to gold I am pretty solid in my determination.
There are more players in s1 than s2 because the elo range is larger in the top divisions(an effect of clamping). There are more people in gold 5 than gold 4 because many of the people in gold 5 are legitimately not gold players and simply cannot be demoted even though their mmr is low enough to be playing with silver 2
E
Fake edit but seriously ap support Janna is op
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EPT
