[Patch 3.11] General Discussion - Page 182

On September 18 2013 10:28 NeoIllusions wrote:
Champions I don't understand why they aren't more popular internationally: Rumble, Lissandra.
I'd also mention Wukong except no region plays him.

On September 18 2013 10:13 Ketara wrote:


I've been riding the Lissandra train for a few weeks now.

She's got high burst (maybe not the best but it's up there), good sustain damage, is about the hardest champion to gank in the game, tons of CC, incredible gank assist and an incredible teamfight.

The only thing she can't really do is farm at long range, which gives her some difficult matchups, but in those matchups if you just get your jungler to camp your lane your gank assist is so good that you should be able to shut the enemy laner down to the point where it's not disadvantaged anymore.

I think she's real strong. I used to do a more defensive build with her but the diamonds in the IH games told me that was bad and I should be building damage, and since I changed my build I'm rocking about a 75% winrate with her.


She's also a reasonable counterpick to both Zed and Ahri, ha!

On September 18 2013 10:18 Kiett wrote:

I agree on her theoretical immense power and love watching Fnatic play her. Yet, she seems to be rather unpopular outside of EU (50% pick/ban) and somewhat China (32%). In NA LCS she was 15% and in OGN Summer she was only 6%. I find that quite interesting. If anyone could shed some light as to why that's the case, I'd appreciate it ^^

On September 18 2013 10:32 red_ wrote:
I don't see the counterpick to Ahri part of it, but she certainly seems like a solid midlaner. Guitar is overestimating her burst because it's better on paper than in practical use(you're generally not using E as a damaging ability).

On September 18 2013 10:33 Ketara wrote:
I think Wukong has a fine roam. Just build Hydra on him and instaclear waves. He can't jump walls but his clone+dash gives him about the same gapclosing capability as Zed.

Wukong is pretty much the next champion I want to learn how to play, really. I'd never play him top, though. Midkong all day.

On September 18 2013 10:32 red_ wrote:


I don't see the counterpick to Ahri part of it, but she certainly seems like a solid midlaner. Guitar is overestimating her burst because it's better on paper than in practical use(you're generally not using E as a damaging ability).



I think it's because she needs more levels to 'come online' than the other typical Korean mids. She's serviceable early, but she doesn't really start to shine until she has her low cooldowns.

On September 18 2013 10:34 gtrsrs wrote:


i didn't count her E as damage in her burst calculations but i DID count her Q twice since it's so easy to hit if you've hit her Q, W, or R already, and the cooldown is low

On September 18 2013 10:23 Slusher wrote:
shes been banned for a while on the tournament client due to a bug if iirc, I mean not that that's the whole story but it's a bit of it at least.

On September 18 2013 10:37 red_ wrote:


That's fair, and her burst is pretty damn good at higher levels, I guess the Koreans(and thus the NA scene because all we do is copycat Korea save for Ashe/Zyra) just prefer their mids be able to do a little more work early. Liss is certainly not incapable before say lvl 11, but she's not as strong before maxing a 2nd skill/lvl2 ult as a lot of the other popular mids. That's my opinion from playing her though, hardly gospel.

On September 18 2013 10:51 gtrsrs wrote:


haha i hate to disagree with you again, but my math doesn't support that. other heavily bursty mids start to catch up to her in damage from 9-11. it's just her super early burst that's insane. lategame she's much more utility-based as mentioned above (though to be fair she still does massive damage, just not blatantly overpowered damage (unless you land E as a damage skill, in which case her damage is basically unmatched by anyone except... xerath?))

in my initial post i said she has ONE OF the highest bursts, and i think that's why she's not really played a ton. the champs that are most popular right now in mid all have slightly higher burst (fizz, ahri, diana, zed) or slightly more utility/sustained damage (ori). i believe that she will be the premier mid as soon as fizz/ahri take a hit, as it's likely that she does well against diana since she's so resilient against divers

my math isn't complete, i haven't mapped out every single champ, and there are obviously a million factors to consider (do i count corki after he hits 7 rockets or after none?, how much damage do i say zed hits for after his ult to consume the death mark? are champions going to be isolated against kha'zix? etc etc etc) but i think in a general sense, lissandra should be considered one of the most potent mid-laners as soon as the absolute top tier gets knocked down a peg

On September 18 2013 10:59 Ketara wrote:


I think as far as Zed is concerned you can just ASSUME that Zeds 1v1 burst potential is higher than Lissandras

But like, just some basic math:

Lissandra at 6: 510+2.6
Ahri at 6: 575+2.85
Annie at 6: 600+3.25 (counting 1 Tibbers auto and 2 seconds of Tibbers aura damage while stunned)
Zed at 6: Over 9000

Fizz is hard to do off the top of your head math with because it depends a lot on how many autos he gets off, but it's potentially more than Annie I'm sure.

But as you can see, Lissandra at 6 assuming her E doesn't hit the enemy champion is pretty equivalent to Ahri at 6, especially considering Lissandra's burst includes more than twice as much CC and is point and click impossible to dodge.

And realistically, if you want to do a full burst combo you can flash in and R Q W E Q with her, which is 590+3.2 at 6.