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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
But since it's on champions who have fallen out of favor for a while now, we'll see when worlds comes around whether or not people decide to pick up jax/irelia/corki again. I can't think of any other previously seen triforce users who've fallen out of favor Ezreal could go both ways. Blue build allows him to be run mid without issues, and the carry build just got a bit stronger. | ||
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
On August 22 2013 16:53 Amui wrote: Ezreal could go both ways. This is the real important part hidden in this post. I'll also add something contructive, they didn't test Vi out in the jungle, and gave her a passive powerful enough to solo dragon at lvl 4. Did they not test out zac top, because he's even more fucking powerful then in the jungle. And they didn't like nunu sustain. If they made mundo today he would get free hp back outside his ult. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On August 22 2013 16:56 SnK-Arcbound wrote: This is the real important part hidden in this post. I thought that was public knowledge | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
On August 22 2013 16:53 Amui wrote: I think the triforce change is going to be fairly big. It's going to be a ~20DPS buff assuming roughly 2.5 seconds a proc, with ~50-60 extra damage frontloaded coupled with a cost reduction. But since it's on champions who have fallen out of favor for a while now, we'll see when worlds comes around whether or not people decide to pick up jax/irelia/corki again. I can't think of any other previously seen triforce users. Ezreal could go both ways. Blue build allows him to be run mid without issues, and the carry build just got a bit stronger. The issue with Triforce is that on Jax/Irelia, it's competing for first item (and, in competitive, the only damage item) with BorK. The opportunity cost is now better for a Trinity rush, but BorK is still BorK, and Jax/Irelia are still hideously mauled by the common 2v1 lanes, and Triforce vs health-stacking tops is a losing battle in itemization (whereas Bork provides anti-health stack+sustain). Corki definitely will benefit, but overall, an increase in Corki's viability, in addition to some nerfs to Twitch's insane early game expunge damage, is pretty meh from a bot lane perspective. Triforce may be a viable alternate on Ezreal, but eh, doesn't change much else. Ezreal builds are much more similar to old ones nowadays (BT first into Tear/Mura and Gauntlet/LW, whereas previously it was BT-Tri-LW). | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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beefhamburger
United States3962 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 22 2013 16:49 Lord Tolkien wrote: I do agree that it may be short-noticed if a region only has 1 week to get use to it, but 2 weeks seems more than enough to digest the changes, and honestly I doubt they'd affect a team's performance either way. I mean it's nothing like the introduction of Cowl, or the changes to early turret armor, etc. The champion changes are extremely easy to digest (give it a few days tops), and the itemization change only affects a few champions (Irelia/Jax/Corki). And this is where you (and Riot) VASTLY underestimate the time it takes for the competitive community to fully analyze, digest, apply, respond to, and develop counterplay to new changes in a patch. The typical turnaround time on a new champ (or, in some cases a new item--see Locket) even being recognized as strong is ~2 months. Typically unless the champion is absurdly broken, players do not even have enough proficiency at a champion to even make it appear strong until that point. To fully flesh out playstyles, how to draft the hero, and how to counter-pick/counter-play? We're looking at a clock on around 4 months. Obviously that is the effect of a new champion. But consider the cumulative effect of all the changes in this patch. Is that more or less of a change to the game than a new champion? Considering that the change to Triforce is drastic enough to potentially require players to re-learn and re-assess champions that they quite literally have not played for almost the entirety of Season 3, I'd say that it's at least comparable. We're obviously never going to get 3 months off a balance patch, but to argue that 2 weeks is "good enough" for competitive teams to assess a patch like this is completely moronic. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23465 Posts
On August 22 2013 11:45 misirlou wrote: tbh it makes no sense, the item is doing pretty much what furor boots are supposed to do, the thing is, furor are a lot weaker compared to homeguard (every enchant is tbh), so why not just buff furor or nerf homeguard? so you stop buying hp after your first ruby crystal because hp items are doing the same thing as ruby crystal is supposed to do? homeguard is good situationally for defending your base, furor is a teamfight specificitem, it might be too expensive but it was too popular before they made it expensive. also the flat ms boosts scales a bit with furor and trinity %ms increase if only a small bit | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
On August 22 2013 17:14 TheYango wrote: And this is where you (and Riot) VASTLY underestimate the time it takes for the competitive community to fully analyze, digest, apply, respond to, and develop counterplay to new changes in a patch. The typical turnaround time on a new champ (or, in some cases a new item--see Locket) even being recognized as strong is ~2 months. Typically unless the champion is absurdly broken, players do not even have enough proficiency at a champion to even make it appear strong until that point. To fully flesh out playstyles, how to draft the hero, and how to counter-pick/counter-play? We're looking at a clock on around 4 months. Obviously that is the effect of a new champion. But consider the cumulative effect of all the changes in this patch. Is that more or less of a change to the game than a new champion? Considering that the change to Triforce is drastic enough to potentially require players to re-learn and re-assess champions that they quite literally have not played for almost the entirety of Season 3, I'd say that it's at least comparable. We're obviously never going to get 3 months off a balance patch, but to argue that 2 weeks is "good enough" for competitive teams to assess a patch like this is completely moronic. We'll have to agree to disagree then. My personal feeling is that the impact of this patch is pretty minimal to the game as a whole; however, the main impact is in the top lane, and there neither Irelia nor Jax (and GP) are going to benefit especially so from the changes to warrant them becoming new must-picks, due to the other tradeoffs they have as picks (poor 1v2, Triforce is competing with BorK, and fares poorly vs common top lane picks). That being said, I reserve the right to be hideously wrong, and for Phage to become new FotM item top lane, but I think current picks/meta are perfectly fine going into this patch, though I don't understand the pace of development at the competitive level as you do. On a EDIT: current opinion of IC: the UI and visuals are confusing. The Spectator UI is pretty lol. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On the amount of time to digest the changes. Jax and irelia both saw a fair amount of play at the start of the season(gradually tapering off to rare picks). As they are some of the weakest 1v2's, as well as most farm dependant offlaners, I don't think triforce change will be too big in the grand scheme of things. It won't affect early game strategies at all for the offensive team. But you will need to have a plan for mid-lategame when they start finishing a defensive core, and that's just part of drafting. Shouldn't have a huge impact. Tower change is only starting to really come into fruition. You still see some teams ward up, and then 3v1 and force the tower down by 5 minutes at the latest, but now that comes with a cost(both to the offlaner and to the pushers). I think the magnitude of this change should've been a lot less. You can deal with turrets having 20 more armor in a couple weeks of practice(~10 seconds tower kill delay), but having almost doubled armor is a significant change to how people have been playing the game since S3 started. Those are the two big changes. If we see more Corki because of the triforce change that can only be a good thing though. He's kinda in a funny spot between Blue Ez and the other ADC's. | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
I also really have to start playing LeBlanc again. And it really bugs me that Lucian's guns aren't identical. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
On August 22 2013 17:52 JazzVortical wrote: I really like this patch. It is really hard to find fault with it (apart from maybe the timing). I also really have to start playing LeBlanc again. And it really bugs me that Lucian's guns aren't identical. Asymmetry OP o/ | ||
Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On August 22 2013 17:52 JazzVortical wrote: I really like this patch. It is really hard to find fault with it (apart from maybe the timing). I also really have to start playing LeBlanc again. And it really bugs me that Lucian's guns aren't identical. One is his, one was his wife's, makes sense to me. | ||
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
Denmark697 Posts
Many ADC's would probably also do the maths on how big the 200% base AD will be if they have a lot of abilities to proc it. I can see it being good on Vayne or Sivir, with Varus as a possible candidate too. | ||
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Usagi
Spain1647 Posts
Liked what I saw on Lucian, sounds incredible fun to play a very skill based. On top of that I can see myself screaming while I unleash the pain with his ultimate! | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
gg irelia | ||
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RouaF
France4121 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On August 22 2013 18:32 Sponkz wrote: New UNIQUE Passive - Rage: basic attacks grant 20 movement speed for 2 seconds on hit. Minion, monster, and champion kills grant 60 movement speed for 2 seconds gg irelia Yeah I'm thinking it's an abuse case that could wind up getting the item/irelia nerfed. Other guy blew a CD and is near a low creep? WQ and for 2 seconds you get to auto unless they have cc. Then you slow, and continue to auto. Finally if they get out of range, Q, and auto once or twice more. Fit in ignite and ultimate as you see fit. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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