EPT[Patch 3.10a: Worlds Balance] General Discussion - Page 7
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
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schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
EU I FEEL YOUR PAIN | ||
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RagequitBM
Canada2270 Posts
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Aldrovandi
United States211 Posts
On August 22 2013 14:29 Ryuu314 wrote: hmm...what do you define as a bad design? Boring? Too hard to balance? Bad is pretty subjective. While I do think some of the designs have been pretty bland, like Aatrox, other designs are pretty neat. I honestly really liked Zac, Lissandra, Thresh as designs. Granted, two of those have pretty hard kits to balance, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. On the other hand, shit like Elise and Jayce make me annoyed. Riot also built Aatrox up to be so much more in the lore- "[The warriors] followed Aatrox into the fray, each fighting with the furious strength of ten until they had won a most unlikely victory." When I saw that, I figured he'd have some sort of neat AOE effect on his ult like stacking ad for his allies for every auto he landed in the fight. Instead, you just get the range increase, which is alright, and a shittier Burst of Speed. Now that I think about it, why did Riot stop allowing non-supports to affect their teammates? The last non-support champ released with a spell that affects allies is Jayce, while older champs like WW, Lux, Ori, Kayle, etc. have supporting abilities without explicitly being supports. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
There's no depth in a team buff unless the usage of it is deep. Again, refer to ww. You use the W when you want attack speed, you don't otherwise, and whether there are allies nearby only affects how strong the spell is, not whether you make the decision to use it. Hence, it being a team buff adds zero depth. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On August 22 2013 12:46 dottycakes wrote: Riot: We're going to remove FoN because mass health regen and magic resist should not go together on an item. FoN was removed because the stats were all over the place, and the item thus was incredibly niche/confused. If you wanted MR/tankiness, you went for a BV, or an SV, or any of the other MR items, because FoN didn't provide HP, which cut its eHP value. The HP regen was similarly niche (given %HPregen scales with eHP, it requires you to already have high resist/HP values), and really the main reason to buy it was the extra MS. Which meant that really, only a few champions could actually use it to any effect. New SV has a much more pronounced role. Just needs to be tuned some more. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Teams have 3 weeks with this patch before World Playoffs. That's simply not enough time to figure out this patch. This isn't even accounting for patches being delayed 1-2 weeks on the Chinese server, which is ridiculously unfair to China and any other region that might not get the patch at the same time as NA. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35127 Posts
I was 97 away from one of those ludicrous 820 CDR glyphs. | ||
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Aldrovandi
United States211 Posts
On August 22 2013 15:58 UniversalSnip wrote: unless it's a shield or movespeed buff, why bother having it give the stats to allies? half the time they're not even gonna fucking notice. I doubt they have any rule against ally buffing but they've probably decided not to just do it for no reason like with WW, and only use it when it makes thematic and gameplay sense like with ori. There's no depth in a team buff unless the usage of it is deep. Again, refer to ww. You use the W when you want attack speed, you don't otherwise, and whether there are allies nearby only affects how strong the spell is, not whether you make the decision to use it. Hence, it being a team buff adds zero depth. I don't mean specifically team-wide abilities, but any spell that affects an ally. Galio's W is a pretty good example - you can use it on yourself, or you can use it on an ally and still benefit. Maybe it was never that common and I'm just looking through rose-colored glasses, but Jayce is the only non-support with an ally-centric skill since Orianna, and it seems like Riot is limiting its champ design by completely ignoring those kinds of abilities. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
he has EVERYTHING that you want on a champ except a cool lore/personality/visual design. EVERYTHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On August 22 2013 15:57 Amui wrote: I think as a part of simplifying the game, they don't want to put too much emphasis on "hidden" power. That unfortunately takes away from the depth of the game. Disagree. Removing burden of knowledge and unnecessary complexity, while preserving depth, is the hallmark of a good game (not to say I don't enjoy games with a great deal of complexity, given my love of the Dominions games). Extra Credits did a great segment on it here: And tbh, the game is already incredibly deep. I suppose you could argue it pales in comparison to other AoS-likes, but the genre as a whole is already difficult enough to learn for the average player. On August 22 2013 16:02 TheYango wrote: I would just like to express how utterly stupid it is that Riot put a balance patch so close to Worlds. Particularly one with such drastic changes as the Triforce change. Teams have 3 weeks with this patch before World Playoffs. That's simply not enough time to figure out this patch. This isn't even accounting for patches being delayed 1-2 weeks on the Chinese server, which is ridiculously unfair to China and any other region that might not get the patch at the same time as NA. Which is definitely understandable, but overall, the patch is pretty light in its content and, outside of the Triforce/Phage/Fmallet changes, pretty much meh. Riven getting to jump over walls with the Third Cast of Broken Wings, which, while definitely interesting, is fairly insignificant. Yi nerfs were expected due to his overtuning, LB gets +2HP/5s base and minor AD/lvl buffs (which is basically insignificant), early lvl expunge damage nerfed (Twitch's trading brought into line early levels, nothing much to be said), Shen's shield gets minor nerfs and his ulti interrupted by roots (somewhat moderate changes), and Zac loses tenacity on ulti and his passive pickup/squash range nerfed (gives counterplay options to his initiation). Minor cost increase to SV. Tbh, the range/CD nerf to BorK active is expected, and at the end of the day doesn't really affect it's usage to a large degree (melee champs like Zed will be in melee range anyways, range carries who utilize BorK like Vayne will similarly be within cast range, and the long range ADCs use it as a peel tool anyways). Most of the game's meta is really remaining the same. The Phage/Triforce changes mean it'll be picked more by top laners (and Corki), and may bring back Irelia/Jax/Darius back to competitive with some new item builds (i.e. non-BorK builds for Jax/Irelia), but outside of that, it doesn't have meta-altering effects besides. If the patch was released a week earlier it would probably be fine, but overall it's pretty light on content, and mostly just some tuning fixes on champs. Hopefully, they accelerate launch of it on other servers, but given the limited changes, I don't think it's of concern. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Don_Julio
2220 Posts
On August 22 2013 16:02 TheYango wrote: I would just like to express how utterly stupid it is that Riot put a balance patch so close to Worlds. Particularly one with such drastic changes as the Triforce change. Teams have 3 weeks with this patch before World Playoffs. That's simply not enough time to figure out this patch. This isn't even accounting for patches being delayed 1-2 weeks on the Chinese server, which is ridiculously unfair to China and any other region that might not get the patch at the same time as NA. I'm still mad that they changed the towers so close to worlds in the last patch. That has/had an even bigger impact on strategies which have been refined over the course of months. They should have waited for the next season if they were unhappy with | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35127 Posts
TL pls, talk about something so I don't have to go back there. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On August 22 2013 16:31 TheYango wrote: No matter how small you consider the changes from this patch to be, 3 weeks is not enough for people to thoroughly explore everything this patch has changed, let alone 1-2 weeks for regions that don't get the patch for as long. Again, the only real change of note would be the Phage/Triforce/Mallet changes, which only has limited effects on the possible picks top lane, and potentially seeing Corki (and non-blue AD Ez builds) become slightly more viable. I don't foresee the changes having dramatic changes on the game at all. Bot lane, Twitch nerfs don't change much at all and if we do see an increase in Corki, cool; he's been woefully missing from the competitive scene. Outside of that, Bot lane is pretty much the same as it always is (the main ADC/support meta is untouched), and mid lane is unchanged (HP/10 and scaling AD increases on LB means nothing). Outside of Yi/Zac, the jungle & picks remains the same. Top lane's the only lane which may see some changes, but Riven buffs are mostly niche mobility/slight utility, Shen nerfs don't affect his matchups/gameplay overmuch (and really, how many champs have roots top lane? Karma?), and Zac nerfs just means there's more counterplay to Zac in teamfights (and his sustain requires more management on both top laner's parts). I do agree that it may be short-noticed if a region only has 1 week to get use to it, but 2 weeks seems more than enough to digest the changes, and honestly I doubt they'd affect a team's performance either way. I mean it's nothing like the introduction of Cowl, or the changes to early turret armor, etc. The champion changes are extremely easy to digest (give it a few days tops), and the itemization change only affects a few champions (Irelia/Jax/Corki). On August 22 2013 16:41 Kupon3ss wrote: phew, just a few moderate balance changes, I was half expecting riot to nerf every top pick in korea/china into the ground like they did 2 months ago imo, the only one worthy of note is the Fmallet/Triforce/Phage change. The other changes are all pretty minor in the big picture. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On August 22 2013 16:48 Gahlo wrote: I had hoped that /r/leagueoflegendsmeta would be a nice little haven of sanity on reddit where I can talk to people about decent league play without "DAE draven?" and "Regi eyebrows MIA." Sadly, it has failed me as I now have people flaming me and calling me retarded because I called frozen mallet bad while somebody is trying his best Yango impression trying to forecast Trifoce/FM combo being OP. TL pls, talk about something so I don't have to go back there. I think Mundo is good if the other team picks Lee Sin before you pick your jungler. His Jungle Path is totally arbitrary so Lee Cant do his Lee things, and if your team doesn't get owned enough to give up an early dragon I think you are better at securing drag #1, and every buff thereafter. | ||
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