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On August 22 2013 11:15 Amarok wrote:
More related to the last patch, but I really think some people are going a bit overboard with avoiding the new Locket. I'm a bit behind on LCS (watching every game is gruelling, I've been a week behind nearly the entire split) and I just watched the Week 9 Curse/Dig game. Dig didn't buy a locket despite being ripped apart in hard 5v5 engages by Kennen, Karthus and Nasus AoE (with Thresh and Varus thrown in for good measure). Apparently Crumbzz said it was a trash item that he'd never buy (and apparently he really meant it), but I find it hard to believe a 20mr aura and 200 hp shield wouldn't have been incredibly useful in that situation.
I agree it's not an always buy item now (and that's ok), but it's still an incredibly efficient purchase against AoE comps.
There was a few pages on this in the last thread, but I don't recall the page numbers on it sadly. Sorry.
In my opinon, the idea is that there is no need to get Aegis at the moment. You are better off going with the new Spectre's Cowl -> Spirit Visage. The build up timing/item is much better, and much more useful than Aegis. At best, Aegis -> Bulwark is a fairly late game luxury item. Seriously, Spectre's cowl/ SV builds from negatron. Almost everyone can get the that negatron, and have it pay off later on with decent upgrades depending on what they want to do next.
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Jungle Teemo much better than Heimerdinger. Flash shroom initiates win games.
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On August 22 2013 12:47 petered wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 12:10 UniversalSnip wrote:
why would you yes? he looks boring He at least looks better than aatrox. Can't believe they are still releasing such bland kits even after they already have so many champions in the game.
I think if Aatrox' ultimate still gave maximum health his kit would be slightly more interesting. In terms of new mechanics it didn't have anything particularly exciting, but at that point it all clicked. The combination of his passive, ultimate, and on-hit healing gave him a lot of tankiness and survivability, allowing him to build damage and not instantly explode. It wasn't entirely balanced as it was, but I think it could have been tweaked adequately.
Instead his ult became what it is now, and he's kind of bland (though the changes to his passive were 100% an improvement).
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Is this patch happening tonight?
What are people banning these days?
My must bans right now are Zac, Eve, Yi and Nasus.
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i'm sure others won't agree with me on this but I think riot's gotten a lot better at balancing. Are they getting better improving at new champion releases... uh... not so much. I don't see how elise, rengar and aatrox are better designs than xin zhao, who they cite as a particularly bad release, and they're not even close to allstars in the original 40 like singed.
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how do i get my password..
i forgot to write it down and now i don't remember it since they forced us to use more complicated passwords (fucking stupid, it's a game, i should be able to use a weak password if i want)
like this is so pathetically bad.. is there no password recovery?
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On August 22 2013 13:23 travis wrote:
how do i get my password..
i forgot to write it down and now i don't remember it since they forced us to use more complicated passwords (fucking stupid, it's a game, i should be able to use a weak password if i want)
like this is so pathetically bad.. is there no password recovery?
You can ask for password recovery via e-mail. http://beta.na.leagueoflegends.com/ -> Login top right -> click "forgot password". It prompts for username, and most likely an e-mail recovery will be sent.
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Jungle heimers seems pretty scary if the team has no wards, u just walk behind them 2x turret and laugh :D
I feel like the zac blob changes are going to make him really annoying to play now. 75 range reduction, you'll have to walk directly onto them to get any effect, too much of a change imo.
YAY no more spaz yi tardfucking everyone. Although it was fun watching my gold duo smash everyone with it while i roflol'd around as silver scrub lulu.
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i guess im in the minority. i think aatrox is a lot of fun to play, and think lucian looks awesome too. i particularly like mobile champs and lucian seems to be that.
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On August 22 2013 13:08 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 12:47 petered wrote:On August 22 2013 12:10 UniversalSnip wrote:
why would you yes? he looks boring He at least looks better than aatrox. Can't believe they are still releasing such bland kits even after they already have so many champions in the game. I think if Aatrox' ultimate still gave maximum health his kit would be slightly more interesting. In terms of new mechanics it didn't have anything particularly exciting, but at that point it all clicked. The combination of his passive, ultimate, and on-hit healing gave him a lot of tankiness and survivability, allowing him to build damage and not instantly explode. It wasn't entirely balanced as it was, but I think it could have been tweaked adequately. Instead his ult became what it is now, and he's kind of bland (though the changes to his passive were 100% an improvement).
The problem with that is that the theoretical Aatrox is an Aatrox that Riot will not make. His kit, as designed, cannot be balanced by the Lol balance team.
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On August 22 2013 12:53 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 11:15 Amarok wrote:
More related to the last patch, but I really think some people are going a bit overboard with avoiding the new Locket. I'm a bit behind on LCS (watching every game is gruelling, I've been a week behind nearly the entire split) and I just watched the Week 9 Curse/Dig game. Dig didn't buy a locket despite being ripped apart in hard 5v5 engages by Kennen, Karthus and Nasus AoE (with Thresh and Varus thrown in for good measure). Apparently Crumbzz said it was a trash item that he'd never buy (and apparently he really meant it), but I find it hard to believe a 20mr aura and 200 hp shield wouldn't have been incredibly useful in that situation.
I agree it's not an always buy item now (and that's ok), but it's still an incredibly efficient purchase against AoE comps. There was a few pages on this in the last thread, but I don't recall the page numbers on it sadly. Sorry. In my opinon, the idea is that there is no need to get Aegis at the moment. You are better off going with the new Spectre's Cowl -> Spirit Visage. The build up timing/item is much better, and much more useful than Aegis. At best, Aegis -> Bulwark is a fairly late game luxury item. Seriously, Spectre's cowl/ SV builds from negatron. Almost everyone can get the that negatron, and have it pay off later on with decent upgrades depending on what they want to do next.
I wouldn't say exclusively lategame. If you're up against a comp built to deal aoe magic damage you're surely getting more mileage out of Aegis/Locket that you are SV during teamfights.
It's not a must buy by any means, but saying that there's "no need" to get Aegis kind of ignores the times where it is a more efficient purchase.
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Just remove Aegis and give us back Kindlegem->Locket. Or reduce the price enough that supports would consider rushing Aegis.
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United States15536 Posts
On August 22 2013 13:29 Klonopin wrote:
i guess im in the minority. i think aatrox is a lot of fun to play, and think lucian looks awesome too. i particularly like mobile champs and lucian seems to be that.
D/w I think Lucian looks dope as hell. Pew pew pew
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On August 22 2013 13:19 UniversalSnip wrote:
i'm sure others won't agree with me on this but I think riot's gotten a lot better at balancing. Are they getting better improving at new champion releases... uh... not so much. I don't see how elise, rengar and aatrox are better designs than xin zhao, who they cite as a particularly bad release, and they're not even close to allstars in the original 40 like singed.
I think they've definitely gotten better at balancing. My only quip about their releases is that they tend to err on the side of shit being boring. Aatrox was such a disappointment in that the idea had so much potential but they pussyfooted it so he's kinda bleh.
To be honest, I don't mind if they release champs that are OP. In fact, that's probably better for Riot both in terms of $$$ and for the game. Obviously, OP champs will generate more sales, but at the same time, if the released champion is on the strong side, they get a lot more data about the champion to balance it. Whereas if the champ is released weak, no one plays it and it becomes harder for Riot to really understand how/why a champ needs to be changed.
On August 22 2013 13:54 miicah wrote:
Just remove Aegis and give us back Kindlegem->Locket. Or reduce the price enough that supports would consider rushing Aegis.
Eh. I just want them to revert it back to S2 aegis :[
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Tried another couple games as Support Viktor. Definitely not worth playing against ADs with escapes but still won the games.
Here's a replay so I can get more specific criticisms of Viktor:
http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/3415519/
Both opponents in lane were Gold if that sets a standard.
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In terms of making adjustments to the game over time, they've improved. That's what I mean by increasing skill at balancing. I don't mean anything to do with the power level of new champions. I mean that new champions just don't have particularly better designs than old ones. Important not to confuse those ideas.
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On August 22 2013 14:25 UniversalSnip wrote:
In terms of making adjustments to the game over time, they've improved. That's what I mean by increasing skill at balancing. I don't mean anything to do with the power level of new champions. I mean that new champions just don't have particularly better designs than old ones. Important not to confuse those ideas.
hmm...what do you define as a bad design? Boring? Too hard to balance? Bad is pretty subjective.
While I do think some of the designs have been pretty bland, like Aatrox, other designs are pretty neat. I honestly really liked Zac, Lissandra, Thresh as designs. Granted, two of those have pretty hard kits to balance, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
On the other hand, shit like Elise and Jayce make me annoyed.
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On August 22 2013 14:29 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 14:25 UniversalSnip wrote:
In terms of making adjustments to the game over time, they've improved. That's what I mean by increasing skill at balancing. I don't mean anything to do with the power level of new champions. I mean that new champions just don't have particularly better designs than old ones. Important not to confuse those ideas. hmm...what do you define as a bad design? Boring? Too hard to balance? Bad is pretty subjective. While I do think some of the designs have been pretty bland, like Aatrox, other designs are pretty neat. I honestly really liked Zac, Lissandra, Thresh as designs. Granted, two of those have pretty hard kits to balance, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. On the other hand, shit like Elise and Jayce make me annoyed.
There are a million ways designs can be bad. It's easy to look at yorick and say "this is the worst design in this game and an astoundingly bad one in general", but there's gray area with others. Based on no real information, I would guess being boring or hard to balance are the two most common things that kill champion designs we never get to see, which we might take as indicating they are bad qualities to have, with the third most likely being a tendency to make the opponent needlessly miserable. Many new champions have those qualities to the same degree old ones do.
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On August 22 2013 14:20 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 13:19 UniversalSnip wrote:
i'm sure others won't agree with me on this but I think riot's gotten a lot better at balancing. Are they getting better improving at new champion releases... uh... not so much. I don't see how elise, rengar and aatrox are better designs than xin zhao, who they cite as a particularly bad release, and they're not even close to allstars in the original 40 like singed. I think they've definitely gotten better at balancing. My only quip about their releases is that they tend to err on the side of shit being boring. Aatrox was such a disappointment in that the idea had so much potential but they pussyfooted it so he's kinda bleh. To be honest, I don't mind if they release champs that are OP. In fact, that's probably better for Riot both in terms of $$$ and for the game. Obviously, OP champs will generate more sales, but at the same time, if the released champion is on the strong side, they get a lot more data about the champion to balance it. Whereas if the champ is released weak, no one plays it and it becomes harder for Riot to really understand how/why a champ needs to be changed. Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 13:54 miicah wrote:
Just remove Aegis and give us back Kindlegem->Locket. Or reduce the price enough that supports would consider rushing Aegis. Eh. I just want them to revert it back to S2 aegis :[
I wouldn't mind champs that are OP on release, if that merely meant that they were overtuned. However, the most recent releases from Riot shows that that is typically not the case. Instead of being overtuned, you get champs that are incredibly difficult to tune, and are likely to be binary (either OP or UP most of the time), and not able to have durable balance levels (like Orianna or Anivia do).
Aatrox, Zac, Thresh, Zed, Elise, Khazix, and Rengar all have almost no chance of being "Orianna -Like", or heck, even Singed/Chogath-like. I do think they did fine with Liss, Quinn, Nami, and Syndra in that span, but the problem is with the "problem" champs they repeated past mistakes.
On August 22 2013 14:29 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 14:25 UniversalSnip wrote:
In terms of making adjustments to the game over time, they've improved. That's what I mean by increasing skill at balancing. I don't mean anything to do with the power level of new champions. I mean that new champions just don't have particularly better designs than old ones. Important not to confuse those ideas. hmm...what do you define as a bad design? Boring? Too hard to balance? Bad is pretty subjective. While I do think some of the designs have been pretty bland, like Aatrox, other designs are pretty neat. I honestly really liked Zac, Lissandra, Thresh as designs. Granted, two of those have pretty hard kits to balance, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. On the other hand, shit like Elise and Jayce make me annoyed.
I think Elise and Jayce, although very difficult to balance, are much more likely to be balanced than many of their recently released champions.
On August 22 2013 14:37 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2013 14:29 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 22 2013 14:25 UniversalSnip wrote:
In terms of making adjustments to the game over time, they've improved. That's what I mean by increasing skill at balancing. I don't mean anything to do with the power level of new champions. I mean that new champions just don't have particularly better designs than old ones. Important not to confuse those ideas. hmm...what do you define as a bad design? Boring? Too hard to balance? Bad is pretty subjective. While I do think some of the designs have been pretty bland, like Aatrox, other designs are pretty neat. I honestly really liked Zac, Lissandra, Thresh as designs. Granted, two of those have pretty hard kits to balance, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. On the other hand, shit like Elise and Jayce make me annoyed. There are a million ways designs can be bad. It's easy to look at yorick and say "this is the worst design in this game and an astoundingly bad one in general", but there's gray area with others. Based on no real information, I would guess being boring or hard to balance are the two most common things that kill champion designs we never get to see, which we might take as indicating they are bad qualities to have, with the third most likely being a tendency to make the opponent needlessly miserable. Many new champions have those qualities to the same degree old ones do.
The problem with this sentiment, IMO, is that Riot has stated that they have specific goals when designing champs. Characters like Thresh, Jayce, Rengar, Khazix, Zed, Zac, Elise, Aatrox, etc could be balanced in Dota. But, in LOL, they have a different design philosophy, and all of those characters need to have an earlygame that is Poppy-level or worse to work in a fair way in LOL.
Im just going to highlight three recent/dumb champs, that all have features that Riot already knew were dumb when they released these champions.
#1/2 Aatrox/ZAC. These are both manaless champions that have an on-demand healing feature (hello Vlad, Shen, and Rengar). These champs are somewhat dissimilar in application, but both are the same in that they either need a terrible earlygame, or terrible lategame to make up for the mechanics of the kit. Both have sustain, which makes winning a lane against them hard, and a revive which makes dives very risky. So, theoretically they should have terrible lategames to make up for that, but Zac has awesome engage (with fairly good disengage) and Aatrox's revive is good lategame as well (unlike Zac/Anivia) because he is invulnerable during the duration.
#3. Is Thresh. His Hook+Lantern is possibly the best Gank-Assist + lategame dive support combo in the game. Even ignoring Flay + the box, he really needs a laning phase that is at least as difficult as Blitzcrank's, if not more so. Instead they gave him 2 more engage/disengage spells and made him ranged (with an AA steroid). He isn't going to work, because he lets your team un-throw a throw (with lantern), lets them fish for advantageous dives (hook), and Riot is not willing to make his earlygame bad enough to make up for this.
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well, launcher crashing before loading screen is currently losing me my promotion series as i try over and over to relog
thanks riot
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EPT
