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On August 26 2013 16:28 Ame wrote:
Ah, perhaps poor/naive wording on my part. Don't give free objectives for sure, but say both teams are gathered around the objective.
Does waiting for the enemy to initiate extend to let the enemy begin the objective? Or should we be doing our best to reach the objective first so that they'll essentially have to 'initiate' on us to contest it? And... I realize there is always the "too many variables to generalize" stuff, but here's to my ignorance.
Thanks for the reply(ies) though. o/
Depends of the objectives and how far behind you are.
Don't contest anything you can't contest. In general dragons are a lost cause, if they can dive you so are outer turrets. the only things worth fighting for in desperate situations is inhib towers and nashor IMO. Nashor is of course, you wait for them to begin it and only go in at the 2.5k mark, the akward moment when everyone is confused about whether to fight the enemy or burst down baron. Alot of times half the team chooses one and the other half chooses the other, resulting in alot of good things for you.
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United States47024 Posts
If you are behind, you're not going to win heads-up fights. Which means either you need to fight uneven fights (pick-offs, force things when someone on the other team is away, etc.), or fights with positional advantage. Take objectives when they fall under the former (e.g. someone on the other team is top or basing to allow you to get a Dragon), but starting a Dragon/Baron when they can 5-man contest offers you no positional advantage.
If they are 5-manning objectives you can't contest (Dragons, pushing towers, etc.), you should be looking for trades. Take towers in exchange for towers/dragons so that you can keep up on global gold. A good team with smooth map movement and vision control will try to prevent you from getting lanes to a position where you can counter-take a tower when they push, but by and large, low-mid level teams are not that coordinated over their map movement, and you will get opportunities this way.
Free objectives are bad. You can't contest everything, but you do need to make them pay a price so they're not getting things for free. Even if it just means shoving a big wave into a tower you won't kill and forcing them to lose some farm.
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On August 26 2013 16:28 Ame wrote:
Ah, perhaps poor/naive wording on my part. Don't give free objectives for sure, but say both teams are gathered around the objective.
Does waiting for the enemy to initiate extend to let the enemy begin the objective? Or should we be doing our best to reach the objective first so that they'll essentially have to 'initiate' on us to contest it? And... I realize there is always the "too many variables to generalize" stuff, but here's to my ignorance.
Thanks for the reply(ies) though. o/
This is hard to give advice on, since I don't play a lot, and mostly watch stuff. I consider this just basic strategy, so I'm unsure what you are asking for that you don't probably already know.
You have to time objectives properly to reach them first. For example, if they are doing dragon, go take tower(if top, might get 2 depending on stage of game, if near dragon, might get mid tower). You have to push out lanes then do objectives to get the timing right. This usually forces someone to defend a lane, and leaves you guys open to creating plays. If you both aim for dragon, it will most likely be difficult for you. It's not impossible, but you will most likely have to concede dragon. You still want to attempt to poke/stall them though as it will whittle down their health bars, and force them to recall(of course this is if there isn't a better nearby equivalent objective, for example mid tower would be an okay trade). Again, this allows you to push out a lane+take map objectives.
Baron might be another story. If they are at baron, you have to contest it. Most likely, you will poke them, but be prepared to disengage any time they turn around. You cannot get caught. I think you know that though. If you delay long enough, most people will stop doing it due to baron harass. If they don't stop, you might end up turning the fight around. That baron 6th player on team is strong.
Someone mentioned this, but it's worth doing it again. You need to ward aggressively. You need the vision control. It's why higher level teams are so good in regards to warding. The more information you have on enemy movement, the more you are free to attempt objectives/trades.
Also I guess Yango is too fast. I write up too much random words 
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This is good reading material/TIL (or on some points, thought more deeply about). Thanks all. 
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It seems that both OMG and PE fail to get a visa to LA....
GG Chinese LoL
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What happened to being recognised as athletes lol
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United States47024 Posts
Go figure 2 weeks is too short of notice to make arrangements for international travel. We shouldn't be finding out now that teams couldn't get their visas 2 weeks before the event in the first place. All these arrangements should have happened months ago. PE obviously couldn't have known whether or not they'd be going to Worlds but at the rate they're going they won't qualify to go anyway. OMG should have applied for their visas the moment they got into the qualifier from Spring LPL.
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On August 26 2013 17:27 Capped wrote:
What happened to being recognised as athletes lol
a joke
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United States47024 Posts
Admittedly part of this is Riot for releasing the Worlds dates so late--though I guess the teams might have been told at some point prior to the public date announcement.
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On August 26 2013 17:29 TheYango wrote:
Go figure 2 weeks is too short of notice to make arrangements for international travel. We shouldn't be finding out now that teams couldn't get their visas 2 weeks before the event in the first place. All these arrangements should have happened months ago. PE obviously couldn't have known whether or not they'd be going to Worlds but at the rate they're going they won't qualify to go anyway. OMG should have applied for their visas the moment they got into the qualifier from Spring LPL.
Doesn't tencent have a lot of pull? Won't they just get involved?
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United States47024 Posts
No matter how much "pull" you have, there's only 2 weeks to the event. There's not a lot of time to make things happen.
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Step one of playing with Arcade Hecarim, loop Robot Unicorn song.
Always I want to be with you~
Also, I need to play more Talon.
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is there any actual advantage to talon over just picking zed instead
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On August 26 2013 17:42 FinestHour wrote:
is there any actual advantage to talon over just picking zed instead
Is there any actual advantage to any ad-caster mid over just picking zed instead?
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On August 26 2013 17:52 BobMcJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 17:42 FinestHour wrote:
is there any actual advantage to talon over just picking zed instead Is there any actual advantage to any ad-caster mid over just picking zed instead?
either rake hurts more than zed does or I haven't faced a competent zed before
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On August 26 2013 17:32 niukasu1990 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 17:27 Capped wrote:
What happened to being recognised as athletes lol a joke
China -> USA is a bit different from Canada -> USA in terms of getting a visa...
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On August 26 2013 18:08 XilDarkz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 17:32 niukasu1990 wrote:On August 26 2013 17:27 Capped wrote:
What happened to being recognised as athletes lol a joke China -> USA is a bit different from Canada -> USA in terms of getting a visa...
It has nothing to do with the countries, it has to do with terms of the stay. Canadians are coming to the country with long term work lined up for them and a place of residency. Foreigners(in a "not NA" sense, suck it TL) are coming for a 1 off tournament with no residency and then leaving after.
Because of that, non-NA players don't qualify for the athlete visa.
EDIT: I'm gonna cry when I'm not a Ghost anymore. Going from Siege Tank to Ghost was the only possible upgrade. It's all down hill from here. T_T
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On August 26 2013 18:07 XilDarkz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 17:52 BobMcJohnson wrote:On August 26 2013 17:42 FinestHour wrote:
is there any actual advantage to talon over just picking zed instead Is there any actual advantage to any ad-caster mid over just picking zed instead? either rake hurts more than zed does or I haven't faced a competent zed before
Probably the latter.
Talon has a much stronger early lane phase (i.e. pre-6) by virtue of silence, and has faster/more guaranteed burst (you can 100-0 someone pretty damn fast).
Zed has more sustained damage, and is probably a better pick overall tbh, and Zed's kill potential in lane only really starts at level 6.
That being said, Talon's fun. And if you get in range of a squishy while being decently farmed, they're dead. Much less counterplay.
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zed is just the most ridiculous ad champ ever, but talon is much more fun imo
also, the silence shuts down some mids really hard
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I think Talon counters certain lanes harder than zed does, but at the same time, zed is a more versatile pick. Pretty obvious which one is better in pro matches. Talon has a much lower cooldown combo though. if he gets to oneshot range though, your mid is in huge trouble(and the rest of your squishies), to an extent that's possibly even worse than zed due to the much faster execution of the combo and lower cooldown.
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EPT
