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[Patch 3.10a: Worlds Balance] General Discussion - Page 136

Forum Index > LoL General
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[PSA]: Challenging the status quo...
Amethyst21
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada7032 Posts
September 01 2013 17:29 GMT
#2701
Going to a huge viewing party for the NA LCS finals in Toronto.

Going to be awesome, they sold out a theatre in like 24 hours and there is still huge demand. I'll do a trip report when i get back
/On the C9 Hype Train/@DatFirefly
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
September 01 2013 17:31 GMT
#2702
On September 02 2013 02:28 MoonBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 02:23 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 02 2013 01:51 wei2coolman wrote:
On September 02 2013 01:47 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 02 2013 00:21 Doctorbeat wrote:
On September 01 2013 23:53 Amethyst21 wrote:
On September 01 2013 20:45 Serelitz wrote:
Whelp, more LoL vs Dota/sc2 drama. I guess that pushes general acceptance of LoL with TL staff further back then.


Yup, RIOT killing e-sports by investing in e-sports.

The anti-RIOT anti- LoL circlejerk is actually amazing to behold. "Screw actually finding facts and things RIOT IS KILLLING eSPORTS." RIOT definitely didn't move an LCS week for TI3. Nope. Didn't happen.


Moving LCS was as much in their own interest. TI3 would leech viewers, I'd definitely have watched TI3 over LCS.

I do think that the anti-Riot jerk is a bit much at times, but then again, Riot is the biggest player and a good amount of skepticism doesn't do any harm. Riot isn't perfect and they haven't delivered (yet) on quite a few promises (replays, certain bugs, etc), some of which have been around for a loooong time.

I don't really like Riot's technical side (server problems, bad client, no replays), but I love their E-sports side and community interaction right now (with a few exceptions).

Riot's technical side is shit. Their left-handed mouse integration is horrible (and is the main reason I stopped playing before). I am using the config they provide for lefties, but I cant change any hotkeys through the ingame menu or it screws it all up.

I am curious though, about the replay thing... how is it that there is a legit 3rd party replay thing that has all kinds of information (it is a complete replay, viewing both sides and all the actions throughout the game) but there isnt an official one? The 3rd party one has been out for years now.

It shouldn't be that hard to set up for lefties. My friend has it all set up pretty easily for lefty.

It is "set up" for lefties, but you cant change anything in-game or it messes it all up. Any changes have to be through a config.ini file, and I dont know what all of the bindable commands are. I tried to rebind a key so that shift+right click would alert enemy missing, and it wont take because you cant bind mouse1 ingame (for some reason lefty drivers are wonky and make right click mouse1 default for some games), so I tried rebinding it to k. That took, but the binding doesnt set right and it removed the left-click bind so now when I left click it does the alert enemy missing command. And since the ini file makes left click multiple binds somehow, you lose the ability to use menu buttons and have to exit the game with alt+f4 and replace the ini file again. It is the worst coding I have ever seen.

Have you bothered reading my giant sticked thread about tech issues in this subforum? It's designed specifically for things like this.

Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 02:23 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 02 2013 01:48 MoonBear wrote:
On September 02 2013 01:47 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 02 2013 00:21 Doctorbeat wrote:
On September 01 2013 23:53 Amethyst21 wrote:
On September 01 2013 20:45 Serelitz wrote:
Whelp, more LoL vs Dota/sc2 drama. I guess that pushes general acceptance of LoL with TL staff further back then.


Yup, RIOT killing e-sports by investing in e-sports.

The anti-RIOT anti- LoL circlejerk is actually amazing to behold. "Screw actually finding facts and things RIOT IS KILLLING eSPORTS." RIOT definitely didn't move an LCS week for TI3. Nope. Didn't happen.


Moving LCS was as much in their own interest. TI3 would leech viewers, I'd definitely have watched TI3 over LCS.

I do think that the anti-Riot jerk is a bit much at times, but then again, Riot is the biggest player and a good amount of skepticism doesn't do any harm. Riot isn't perfect and they haven't delivered (yet) on quite a few promises (replays, certain bugs, etc), some of which have been around for a loooong time.

I don't really like Riot's technical side (server problems, bad client, no replays), but I love their E-sports side and community interaction right now (with a few exceptions).

Riot's technical side is shit. Their left-handed mouse integration is horrible (and is the main reason I stopped playing before). I am using the config they provide for lefties, but I cant change any hotkeys through the ingame menu or it screws it all up.

I am curious though, about the replay thing... how is it that there is a legit 3rd party replay thing that has all kinds of information (it is a complete replay, viewing both sides and all the actions throughout the game) but there isnt an official one? The 3rd party one has been out for years now.

1) It doesn't have API support
2) All replays are done locally. These ones are going through the Riot servers. Think of all that server and bandwidth cost.

Lolreplay goes through riot servers? Or is done locally? If Lolreplay is done locally, why doesnt Riot just officially implement that?

No, LoLReplay saves things locally. Why does Riot not do things locally? Because they want a centralised system for replay and replay handling that also keeps up with patches and game engine changes as well as allowing for large data analytics because that makes more sense. Same reason your match history is saved Riot-side and not locally.

I am just complaining that these issues have been in the game for years now, I am fine with what I have worked out.

And I can understand wanting a centralized system, but if bandwidth is an issue then why not implement it locally first?
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
September 01 2013 17:32 GMT
#2703
On September 02 2013 02:31 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 02:28 MoonBear wrote:
On September 02 2013 02:23 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 02 2013 01:51 wei2coolman wrote:
On September 02 2013 01:47 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 02 2013 00:21 Doctorbeat wrote:
On September 01 2013 23:53 Amethyst21 wrote:
On September 01 2013 20:45 Serelitz wrote:
Whelp, more LoL vs Dota/sc2 drama. I guess that pushes general acceptance of LoL with TL staff further back then.


Yup, RIOT killing e-sports by investing in e-sports.

The anti-RIOT anti- LoL circlejerk is actually amazing to behold. "Screw actually finding facts and things RIOT IS KILLLING eSPORTS." RIOT definitely didn't move an LCS week for TI3. Nope. Didn't happen.


Moving LCS was as much in their own interest. TI3 would leech viewers, I'd definitely have watched TI3 over LCS.

I do think that the anti-Riot jerk is a bit much at times, but then again, Riot is the biggest player and a good amount of skepticism doesn't do any harm. Riot isn't perfect and they haven't delivered (yet) on quite a few promises (replays, certain bugs, etc), some of which have been around for a loooong time.

I don't really like Riot's technical side (server problems, bad client, no replays), but I love their E-sports side and community interaction right now (with a few exceptions).

Riot's technical side is shit. Their left-handed mouse integration is horrible (and is the main reason I stopped playing before). I am using the config they provide for lefties, but I cant change any hotkeys through the ingame menu or it screws it all up.

I am curious though, about the replay thing... how is it that there is a legit 3rd party replay thing that has all kinds of information (it is a complete replay, viewing both sides and all the actions throughout the game) but there isnt an official one? The 3rd party one has been out for years now.

It shouldn't be that hard to set up for lefties. My friend has it all set up pretty easily for lefty.

It is "set up" for lefties, but you cant change anything in-game or it messes it all up. Any changes have to be through a config.ini file, and I dont know what all of the bindable commands are. I tried to rebind a key so that shift+right click would alert enemy missing, and it wont take because you cant bind mouse1 ingame (for some reason lefty drivers are wonky and make right click mouse1 default for some games), so I tried rebinding it to k. That took, but the binding doesnt set right and it removed the left-click bind so now when I left click it does the alert enemy missing command. And since the ini file makes left click multiple binds somehow, you lose the ability to use menu buttons and have to exit the game with alt+f4 and replace the ini file again. It is the worst coding I have ever seen.

Have you bothered reading my giant sticked thread about tech issues in this subforum? It's designed specifically for things like this.

On September 02 2013 02:23 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 02 2013 01:48 MoonBear wrote:
On September 02 2013 01:47 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 02 2013 00:21 Doctorbeat wrote:
On September 01 2013 23:53 Amethyst21 wrote:
On September 01 2013 20:45 Serelitz wrote:
Whelp, more LoL vs Dota/sc2 drama. I guess that pushes general acceptance of LoL with TL staff further back then.


Yup, RIOT killing e-sports by investing in e-sports.

The anti-RIOT anti- LoL circlejerk is actually amazing to behold. "Screw actually finding facts and things RIOT IS KILLLING eSPORTS." RIOT definitely didn't move an LCS week for TI3. Nope. Didn't happen.


Moving LCS was as much in their own interest. TI3 would leech viewers, I'd definitely have watched TI3 over LCS.

I do think that the anti-Riot jerk is a bit much at times, but then again, Riot is the biggest player and a good amount of skepticism doesn't do any harm. Riot isn't perfect and they haven't delivered (yet) on quite a few promises (replays, certain bugs, etc), some of which have been around for a loooong time.

I don't really like Riot's technical side (server problems, bad client, no replays), but I love their E-sports side and community interaction right now (with a few exceptions).

Riot's technical side is shit. Their left-handed mouse integration is horrible (and is the main reason I stopped playing before). I am using the config they provide for lefties, but I cant change any hotkeys through the ingame menu or it screws it all up.

I am curious though, about the replay thing... how is it that there is a legit 3rd party replay thing that has all kinds of information (it is a complete replay, viewing both sides and all the actions throughout the game) but there isnt an official one? The 3rd party one has been out for years now.

1) It doesn't have API support
2) All replays are done locally. These ones are going through the Riot servers. Think of all that server and bandwidth cost.

Lolreplay goes through riot servers? Or is done locally? If Lolreplay is done locally, why doesnt Riot just officially implement that?

No, LoLReplay saves things locally. Why does Riot not do things locally? Because they want a centralised system for replay and replay handling that also keeps up with patches and game engine changes as well as allowing for large data analytics because that makes more sense. Same reason your match history is saved Riot-side and not locally.

I am just complaining that these issues have been in the game for years now, I am fine with what I have worked out.

And I can understand wanting a centralized system, but if bandwidth is an issue then why not implement it locally first?

Because the client can't even handle what Riot wants in their replay system anyway.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
September 01 2013 17:34 GMT
#2704
Pretty sure that's all placebo. You can auto just as much as any AP carry that gets in range to auto. Ranged APs obviously can auto more and so can champions who often space out their abilities and have short cooldowns to get more lichbane procs, but I don't understand this autoattack weaving bs.

Lux used to be considered a prime candidate for Lichbane back when it was 1.0AP ratio. You can still find the discussions in the Lux thread. She has neither short cooldowns, nor the tendency to get in range to auto. Style points. Nothing else.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
September 01 2013 17:40 GMT
#2705
On September 02 2013 02:28 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 02:22 Alaric wrote:
On September 02 2013 02:12 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On September 02 2013 02:07 wei2coolman wrote:
Lich is nice on Ziggs, but like you brought up there are just so many items that I'd have priority over Lich. Dcap/Zhonya's/Grail/SorcBoots/VoidStaff. Lich is 6th item for me. But, rarely are 6th items considered "core" on a champ. Mostly because games rarely last that long.


Hat Lich is a very standard build, and is in fact the build I default to when nothing peculiar is happening in gaeme, and it is also CitizenWayne's preferred Ziggs' build.

Dade went Grail-Hat-Sheen (didn't get to finish LB) and the game ended the time he played Ziggs.

On September 02 2013 02:11 Slusher wrote:
Not to disagree with you on Lichbane being good Cheep, I generally consider core to mean, items you need to finish to hit your strong period, I feel like Ziggs hits this with chalice/dcap.


chalice is an optional item

Like, Ziggs has pretty flexible options, but Lich bane is one of the items that boosts his damage the most and it also gives him mana pool and MS, it is far more core than grail. It is not the one item that will make Ziggs insanely scary, but alaric simply suggests that you never got it cause of "poor range" or some stupid shit.

tl;dr alaric doesnt play ziggs and makes stupid post about ziggs, as tends to happen in TLGD

It makes me curious though, since I've never seen Ziggs go Lichbane outside of people trying the champ, or when spectating low level play (as in, Ziggs isn't popular competitively and I'm only in Gold I so the only high Elo Ziggs I see are these in the featured games in the client), how do you alter the playstyle to go with it?
Most of the time I see Ziggs either using his ult to countergank (or when the enemy mid roams first, to be the first to help his lane), or trying to push with his team so they group early and he relies on Q spam to weaken people before blowing everything once somebody initiates. It seems to be really heayv in mana usage, so I assume it's not easy to do if you only have blue buff (eg no Tear/Chalice), is it still enough as long as you make your poke sparse, or do you significantly alter how you play it out to make use of Lichbane/less mp5?

Lichbane sounds like an item you use to abuse the 575 range in lane or sieges, or as a defense when people dive you to get more burst, and since Ziggs' kit seems so good at preventing people to reach him in the first place, I wouldn't instinctively compare him to other champions whose kit/playstyle entices autoattacking, like TF. Like Lux, it makes me think "sure, you can, but is it optimal?".


pointing to "high elo play" of unpopular champs leads to a lot of shit. tournament viability is much more of an indicator of something working

lich bane gives you 250 mana - grail's 15 mp/5 needs 80 seconds to catch up to that, disregarding the 12% regen which isn't really -that- much if you're not buildling any mana pool enhancing items like tear or roa (which you shoudlnt)

lich bane gives you -enough- mana that you can comfortably toss out q's for a good while and infinitely with blue, grail isn't particularly necessary for mana upkeep

there are a million ways ppl can dive yo uand lich bane lets you 1v1 then super easily. just to say "you should never be reached" is silly.

it's also completely bullshit for both split pushing and group sieging since you only need to get a few autos in and the tower is gone, 575 range is not short by any means

Are you simply mentioning it, or do you view Ziggs as a good splitpusher? I mean, he kills waves pretty fast and his passive's damage is super good on towers (that's something like 200 damage around level 10 and with deathcap alone?) and he has an escape spell and the slow/zone control of the minefield but he's so squishy. @_@ Also all skillshots so mobile champs are annoying to deal with; I have trouble imagining Ziggs splitpushing against a Zed/Lee/Ahri and such, for example.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
September 01 2013 17:41 GMT
#2706
On September 02 2013 02:32 MoonBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 02:31 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 02 2013 02:28 MoonBear wrote:
On September 02 2013 02:23 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 02 2013 01:51 wei2coolman wrote:
On September 02 2013 01:47 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 02 2013 00:21 Doctorbeat wrote:
On September 01 2013 23:53 Amethyst21 wrote:
On September 01 2013 20:45 Serelitz wrote:
Whelp, more LoL vs Dota/sc2 drama. I guess that pushes general acceptance of LoL with TL staff further back then.


Yup, RIOT killing e-sports by investing in e-sports.

The anti-RIOT anti- LoL circlejerk is actually amazing to behold. "Screw actually finding facts and things RIOT IS KILLLING eSPORTS." RIOT definitely didn't move an LCS week for TI3. Nope. Didn't happen.


Moving LCS was as much in their own interest. TI3 would leech viewers, I'd definitely have watched TI3 over LCS.

I do think that the anti-Riot jerk is a bit much at times, but then again, Riot is the biggest player and a good amount of skepticism doesn't do any harm. Riot isn't perfect and they haven't delivered (yet) on quite a few promises (replays, certain bugs, etc), some of which have been around for a loooong time.

I don't really like Riot's technical side (server problems, bad client, no replays), but I love their E-sports side and community interaction right now (with a few exceptions).

Riot's technical side is shit. Their left-handed mouse integration is horrible (and is the main reason I stopped playing before). I am using the config they provide for lefties, but I cant change any hotkeys through the ingame menu or it screws it all up.

I am curious though, about the replay thing... how is it that there is a legit 3rd party replay thing that has all kinds of information (it is a complete replay, viewing both sides and all the actions throughout the game) but there isnt an official one? The 3rd party one has been out for years now.

It shouldn't be that hard to set up for lefties. My friend has it all set up pretty easily for lefty.

It is "set up" for lefties, but you cant change anything in-game or it messes it all up. Any changes have to be through a config.ini file, and I dont know what all of the bindable commands are. I tried to rebind a key so that shift+right click would alert enemy missing, and it wont take because you cant bind mouse1 ingame (for some reason lefty drivers are wonky and make right click mouse1 default for some games), so I tried rebinding it to k. That took, but the binding doesnt set right and it removed the left-click bind so now when I left click it does the alert enemy missing command. And since the ini file makes left click multiple binds somehow, you lose the ability to use menu buttons and have to exit the game with alt+f4 and replace the ini file again. It is the worst coding I have ever seen.

Have you bothered reading my giant sticked thread about tech issues in this subforum? It's designed specifically for things like this.

On September 02 2013 02:23 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 02 2013 01:48 MoonBear wrote:
On September 02 2013 01:47 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 02 2013 00:21 Doctorbeat wrote:
On September 01 2013 23:53 Amethyst21 wrote:
On September 01 2013 20:45 Serelitz wrote:
Whelp, more LoL vs Dota/sc2 drama. I guess that pushes general acceptance of LoL with TL staff further back then.


Yup, RIOT killing e-sports by investing in e-sports.

The anti-RIOT anti- LoL circlejerk is actually amazing to behold. "Screw actually finding facts and things RIOT IS KILLLING eSPORTS." RIOT definitely didn't move an LCS week for TI3. Nope. Didn't happen.


Moving LCS was as much in their own interest. TI3 would leech viewers, I'd definitely have watched TI3 over LCS.

I do think that the anti-Riot jerk is a bit much at times, but then again, Riot is the biggest player and a good amount of skepticism doesn't do any harm. Riot isn't perfect and they haven't delivered (yet) on quite a few promises (replays, certain bugs, etc), some of which have been around for a loooong time.

I don't really like Riot's technical side (server problems, bad client, no replays), but I love their E-sports side and community interaction right now (with a few exceptions).

Riot's technical side is shit. Their left-handed mouse integration is horrible (and is the main reason I stopped playing before). I am using the config they provide for lefties, but I cant change any hotkeys through the ingame menu or it screws it all up.

I am curious though, about the replay thing... how is it that there is a legit 3rd party replay thing that has all kinds of information (it is a complete replay, viewing both sides and all the actions throughout the game) but there isnt an official one? The 3rd party one has been out for years now.

1) It doesn't have API support
2) All replays are done locally. These ones are going through the Riot servers. Think of all that server and bandwidth cost.

Lolreplay goes through riot servers? Or is done locally? If Lolreplay is done locally, why doesnt Riot just officially implement that?

No, LoLReplay saves things locally. Why does Riot not do things locally? Because they want a centralised system for replay and replay handling that also keeps up with patches and game engine changes as well as allowing for large data analytics because that makes more sense. Same reason your match history is saved Riot-side and not locally.

I am just complaining that these issues have been in the game for years now, I am fine with what I have worked out.

And I can understand wanting a centralized system, but if bandwidth is an issue then why not implement it locally first?

Because the client can't even handle what Riot wants in their replay system anyway.

I see. I guess I just find it odd that a 3rd party solution has been around for forever.

Out of curiosity when was the last client update? Not a balance patch/champion addition or anything... but when a feature was added/removed or even a major/minor bugfix for the client itself? I understand financially that such things are expensive, especially when you can instead focus development on actual content (which nets them money through actual purchases) and balance (and there are tons of those changes).
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
September 01 2013 17:48 GMT
#2707
On September 02 2013 02:34 obesechicken13 wrote:
Pretty sure that's all placebo. You can auto just as much as any AP carry that gets in range to auto. Ranged APs obviously can auto more and so can champions who often space out their abilities and have short cooldowns to get more lichbane procs, but I don't understand this autoattack weaving bs.

Lux used to be considered a prime candidate for Lichbane back when it was 1.0AP ratio. You can still find the discussions in the Lux thread. She has neither short cooldowns, nor the tendency to get in range to auto. Style points. Nothing else.


Lux was also considered not competitively viable until the current build emerged this is not a coincidence.
Carrilord has arrived.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
September 01 2013 17:49 GMT
#2708
On September 02 2013 02:29 Amethyst21 wrote:
Going to a huge viewing party for the NA LCS finals in Toronto.

Going to be awesome, they sold out a theatre in like 24 hours and there is still huge demand. I'll do a trip report when i get back

Take pics! Always like seeing how big these viewing parties are for esports!
liftlift > tsm
NeedsmoreCELLTECH
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Netherlands1242 Posts
September 01 2013 17:57 GMT
#2709
Is there anywhere I can watch the OGN lol finals? They were yesterday I think but I had to study, would love to watch them especially after the awesome write-up.
Get huge or die mirin | Diamond on LoL
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
September 01 2013 18:00 GMT
#2710
On September 02 2013 02:57 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
Is there anywhere I can watch the OGN lol finals? They were yesterday I think but I had to study, would love to watch them especially after the awesome write-up.


Best place is the ongamenet Twitch channel... you just need a paid subscription for the VoDs.

But it's totally worth and you should support eSports with a purchase if at all possible.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
September 01 2013 18:09 GMT
#2711
On September 02 2013 01:47 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 00:21 Doctorbeat wrote:
On September 01 2013 23:53 Amethyst21 wrote:
On September 01 2013 20:45 Serelitz wrote:
Whelp, more LoL vs Dota/sc2 drama. I guess that pushes general acceptance of LoL with TL staff further back then.


Yup, RIOT killing e-sports by investing in e-sports.

The anti-RIOT anti- LoL circlejerk is actually amazing to behold. "Screw actually finding facts and things RIOT IS KILLLING eSPORTS." RIOT definitely didn't move an LCS week for TI3. Nope. Didn't happen.


Moving LCS was as much in their own interest. TI3 would leech viewers, I'd definitely have watched TI3 over LCS.

I do think that the anti-Riot jerk is a bit much at times, but then again, Riot is the biggest player and a good amount of skepticism doesn't do any harm. Riot isn't perfect and they haven't delivered (yet) on quite a few promises (replays, certain bugs, etc), some of which have been around for a loooong time.

I don't really like Riot's technical side (server problems, bad client, no replays), but I love their E-sports side and community interaction right now (with a few exceptions).

Riot's technical side is shit. Their left-handed mouse integration is horrible (and is the main reason I stopped playing before). I am using the config they provide for lefties, but I cant change any hotkeys through the ingame menu or it screws it all up.

I am curious though, about the replay thing... how is it that there is a legit 3rd party replay thing that has all kinds of information (it is a complete replay, viewing both sides and all the actions throughout the game) but there isnt an official one? The 3rd party one has been out for years now.


As a lefty, I never understood people that use their mouse in left-handed mode.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21242 Posts
September 01 2013 18:11 GMT
#2712
On September 02 2013 02:40 Alaric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 02:28 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On September 02 2013 02:22 Alaric wrote:
On September 02 2013 02:12 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On September 02 2013 02:07 wei2coolman wrote:
Lich is nice on Ziggs, but like you brought up there are just so many items that I'd have priority over Lich. Dcap/Zhonya's/Grail/SorcBoots/VoidStaff. Lich is 6th item for me. But, rarely are 6th items considered "core" on a champ. Mostly because games rarely last that long.


Hat Lich is a very standard build, and is in fact the build I default to when nothing peculiar is happening in gaeme, and it is also CitizenWayne's preferred Ziggs' build.

Dade went Grail-Hat-Sheen (didn't get to finish LB) and the game ended the time he played Ziggs.

On September 02 2013 02:11 Slusher wrote:
Not to disagree with you on Lichbane being good Cheep, I generally consider core to mean, items you need to finish to hit your strong period, I feel like Ziggs hits this with chalice/dcap.


chalice is an optional item

Like, Ziggs has pretty flexible options, but Lich bane is one of the items that boosts his damage the most and it also gives him mana pool and MS, it is far more core than grail. It is not the one item that will make Ziggs insanely scary, but alaric simply suggests that you never got it cause of "poor range" or some stupid shit.

tl;dr alaric doesnt play ziggs and makes stupid post about ziggs, as tends to happen in TLGD

It makes me curious though, since I've never seen Ziggs go Lichbane outside of people trying the champ, or when spectating low level play (as in, Ziggs isn't popular competitively and I'm only in Gold I so the only high Elo Ziggs I see are these in the featured games in the client), how do you alter the playstyle to go with it?
Most of the time I see Ziggs either using his ult to countergank (or when the enemy mid roams first, to be the first to help his lane), or trying to push with his team so they group early and he relies on Q spam to weaken people before blowing everything once somebody initiates. It seems to be really heayv in mana usage, so I assume it's not easy to do if you only have blue buff (eg no Tear/Chalice), is it still enough as long as you make your poke sparse, or do you significantly alter how you play it out to make use of Lichbane/less mp5?

Lichbane sounds like an item you use to abuse the 575 range in lane or sieges, or as a defense when people dive you to get more burst, and since Ziggs' kit seems so good at preventing people to reach him in the first place, I wouldn't instinctively compare him to other champions whose kit/playstyle entices autoattacking, like TF. Like Lux, it makes me think "sure, you can, but is it optimal?".


pointing to "high elo play" of unpopular champs leads to a lot of shit. tournament viability is much more of an indicator of something working

lich bane gives you 250 mana - grail's 15 mp/5 needs 80 seconds to catch up to that, disregarding the 12% regen which isn't really -that- much if you're not buildling any mana pool enhancing items like tear or roa (which you shoudlnt)

lich bane gives you -enough- mana that you can comfortably toss out q's for a good while and infinitely with blue, grail isn't particularly necessary for mana upkeep

there are a million ways ppl can dive yo uand lich bane lets you 1v1 then super easily. just to say "you should never be reached" is silly.

it's also completely bullshit for both split pushing and group sieging since you only need to get a few autos in and the tower is gone, 575 range is not short by any means

Are you simply mentioning it, or do you view Ziggs as a good splitpusher? I mean, he kills waves pretty fast and his passive's damage is super good on towers (that's something like 200 damage around level 10 and with deathcap alone?) and he has an escape spell and the slow/zone control of the minefield but he's so squishy. @_@ Also all skillshots so mobile champs are annoying to deal with; I have trouble imagining Ziggs splitpushing against a Zed/Lee/Ahri and such, for example.


who can/when to split push is always situational, but there are plenty of situations where ziggs i a good candidate. good wave clear and good tower dmg, plus a long range ultthat can assist maybe not from cross map but between mid and a side lane pretty easily

obviously dont do it if they have someone that can 1v1 you but ziggs is deceptive strong in a 1v1, esp with lich bane
TranslatorBaa!
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
September 01 2013 18:14 GMT
#2713
Howdy, friends.

How's things?
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
September 01 2013 18:16 GMT
#2714
On September 02 2013 03:14 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Howdy, friends.

How's things?


Long time no see. Where you been?
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-01 18:25:43
September 01 2013 18:17 GMT
#2715
On September 02 2013 02:48 Slusher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 02:34 obesechicken13 wrote:
Pretty sure that's all placebo. You can auto just as much as any AP carry that gets in range to auto. Ranged APs obviously can auto more and so can champions who often space out their abilities and have short cooldowns to get more lichbane procs, but I don't understand this autoattack weaving bs.

Lux used to be considered a prime candidate for Lichbane back when it was 1.0AP ratio. You can still find the discussions in the Lux thread. She has neither short cooldowns, nor the tendency to get in range to auto. Style points. Nothing else.


Lux was also considered not competitively viable until the current build emerged this is not a coincidence.


Lichbane also used to give MR, armguard didn't exist, fiendish codex wasn't ridiculously cost efficient, and Lux used to be able to kill caster minions with just E before finishing deathcap because all the AP items gave more AP than they do now.

Lichbane as 2nd or 3rd item on Lux used to be good. Once the season 3 item changes rolled around it wasn't anymore.

Still okay as 5th item. I prefer DFG for the CDR, but it's entirely debatable.


Realistically there is no ideal 5th item for Lux. What she wants is like, DFG stats with a different active.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
upperbound
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2300 Posts
September 01 2013 18:17 GMT
#2716
Soniv play in in-house games pl0x
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-01 18:24:24
September 01 2013 18:23 GMT
#2717
On September 02 2013 03:16 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 03:14 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Howdy, friends.

How's things?


Long time no see. Where you been?


Doing a multitude of things!

Graduated, moved out of my parents' place and got my own apartment, started a full time summer internship, played in a summer frisbee league (which was an hour drive since it was back home - 2 or 3 times a week), spent a lot of time with the girlfriend, got into MtG, got an offer at the company I was interning for. Now the school year is starting up and my schedule probably won't be as hectic.

At the beginning of the summer, I didn't have nearly enough time to play and stay practiced, and I couldn't really be competitive in ranked anymore, which frustrated me. But I watched some of the games this weekend with my friends, and I got the itch to play again. I'm kind of afraid to see how hard Elo decay hit me o.o

On September 02 2013 03:17 upperbound wrote:
Soniv play in in-house games pl0x


Might be a good way for me to get back in the swing of things.

I haven't tried streaming at my new place yet, but the internet is pretty good. I'm considering streaming my comeback and me relearning how to do shit.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
TheRabidDeer
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States3806 Posts
September 01 2013 18:27 GMT
#2718
On September 02 2013 03:09 Diamond wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2013 01:47 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On September 02 2013 00:21 Doctorbeat wrote:
On September 01 2013 23:53 Amethyst21 wrote:
On September 01 2013 20:45 Serelitz wrote:
Whelp, more LoL vs Dota/sc2 drama. I guess that pushes general acceptance of LoL with TL staff further back then.


Yup, RIOT killing e-sports by investing in e-sports.

The anti-RIOT anti- LoL circlejerk is actually amazing to behold. "Screw actually finding facts and things RIOT IS KILLLING eSPORTS." RIOT definitely didn't move an LCS week for TI3. Nope. Didn't happen.


Moving LCS was as much in their own interest. TI3 would leech viewers, I'd definitely have watched TI3 over LCS.

I do think that the anti-Riot jerk is a bit much at times, but then again, Riot is the biggest player and a good amount of skepticism doesn't do any harm. Riot isn't perfect and they haven't delivered (yet) on quite a few promises (replays, certain bugs, etc), some of which have been around for a loooong time.

I don't really like Riot's technical side (server problems, bad client, no replays), but I love their E-sports side and community interaction right now (with a few exceptions).

Riot's technical side is shit. Their left-handed mouse integration is horrible (and is the main reason I stopped playing before). I am using the config they provide for lefties, but I cant change any hotkeys through the ingame menu or it screws it all up.

I am curious though, about the replay thing... how is it that there is a legit 3rd party replay thing that has all kinds of information (it is a complete replay, viewing both sides and all the actions throughout the game) but there isnt an official one? The 3rd party one has been out for years now.


As a lefty, I never understood people that use their mouse in left-handed mode.

I dont either.
chinstrap
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom253 Posts
September 01 2013 18:43 GMT
#2719
So I just got 'attempting to reconnect' on EUW for about 2 mins while my net was fine, I alt F4 out planning on reconnecting and it just puts me straight back in the client as if I was never in a game...

Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-01 18:45:04
September 01 2013 18:44 GMT
#2720
those terror ez ganks

edit: i wasted my 2k on a mispot in the wrong thread. I'm good at this
Bronze player stuck in platinum
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