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On August 01 2013 14:20 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
of course ketara is the one who agrees with xizor's bullshit lol
you guys should read what kass' ult does
Cheep, may I call you Cheep? Not sure we're on a nickname basis... Anyways, Cheep. When you post I think of a mix of... Roffles, Neo, and Teut.
I think you're one of those people, cloned, with a disguise on, halfway across the world from your clone.
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playing in hauses taught me that i have never played with a platinum before and there is a reason.
learning op.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
he reminds me of zulunation8, oh how I miss our dear dear bly.
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On August 01 2013 14:18 ketchup wrote:
I don't really care for anything else, but this tells me you don't really play Kassadin often. His mana issues are pretty huge, and it's one of the biggest reasons people rush RoA on him. You cannot be effective without that mana.
I didn't want to quote the whole post for just that one line, so I won't.
My initial reason for asking you the question is because Kassadin reminds me of more of a DotA/classical champion than he does a LoL champion. I didn't really mean to draw attention to the fact that you like ohmwrecker as an item, and want to test it on everyone. I apologize for that part.
Being Mana hungry and mana starved are different. he doesn't have mana issues until he starts mismanaging his mana or the game hits late and he needs to be ulting every few seconds. Just because he's very commonly played like you have to spam everything off cooldown doesn't mean that's correct or optimal.
he doesn't remind me much of dota heroes though.
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Baa?21243 Posts
On August 01 2013 14:25 Scip wrote:
he reminds me of zulunation8, oh how I miss our dear dear bly.
bly is the hero that tl lol gd needs, but not the one it deserves right now.
On August 01 2013 14:22 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 14:20 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
of course ketara is the one who agrees with xizor's bullshit lol
you guys should read what kass' ult does Cheep, may I call you Cheep? Not sure we're on a nickname basis... Anyways, Cheep. When you post I think of a mix of... Roffles, Neo, and Teut. I think you're one of those people, cloned, with a disguise on, halfway across the world from your clone.
wat
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On August 01 2013 14:12 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 13:27 Ketara wrote:On August 01 2013 12:48 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 01 2013 12:45 Dusty wrote:On August 01 2013 12:28 PrinceXizor wrote:
Ohmwrecker is pretty strong on kass overall though and i'd like to test it out as a first big item.. please let this be a joke Without looking it up, name the stats on the item. Actually lets be fair with this one. Compare Ohmwrecker with RoA, which is already kind of a "standard" Kassadin buy. RoA: 2800 gold 450-650 HP 450-650 mana 60-80 AP Ohmwrecker: 2850 gold 350 HP 15 HP regen 15 mana regen 50 AP Ohmwrecker active Considering that the HP regen is probably stronger than 100 more HP during laning, and the mana regen is probably as good as or better than 450 extra mana, and the AP is similar, I'd daresay Ohmwrecker is probably stronger than a zero stacks RoA because of the active. Whether or not it's as strong as the fully stacked RoA late game is I think a little more questionable, but I'd be willing to entertain this as a possible idea given certain matchups / team comps. Also note that because it builds from a Philo, Ohmwrecker is probably overall slightly cheaper than RoA, and has an easier build path. This is partially the reason, this and the fact that kassadin is at his strongest when he's seen as an oppressive force in the game, and usually at a roughly mid game timing (around 3-4 minutes post RoA/boots.) when he can roam and snowball his team. Now compared to RoA its essentially the same item. and mana concerns don't exactly exist for kassadin until late in the game when he should be riftwalking far more than he does in the mid game. The issue with the item overall is that its not slot effective, but its cost effective and has an active that directly helps kassadin in the timing in which he needs to start controlling the game or gtfo and be a drain on his team. I value that far more than RoA at the same timing, especially since at that point in the game you tend to have blue buff, meaning the 450 mana isn't really necessary for your goal of killing people. Catalyst while good at hanging on desperately in a lane (something philo stone is arguably superior at due to the gp/10) doesn't do much for kassadin while ganking. and yes the old ohmwrecker was much better overall as an item than this one. BUT the slight decrease in stats is made up for by its incredibly strong timing. At the point you finish ohmwrecker you should be able to head bottom (or top if your jungler is at top) get a kill ( or two) and finish off the tower. Mechanics about ohmwrecker you might not know: It stops the tower from firing it removes aggro from the tower for the duration of the ohmwrecker and a little after. IT resets the towers attack count, lowering the damage the first shot out of ohmwrecker the tower does to its base value. Overall ohmwrecker isn't there to be an item to make your late game stronger, if you want that then rod of ages is alright for it, though its not the best for kassadin since its timing window is past where it needs to be. Its there to create an incredibly powerful timing that peaks with kassadins point of maximum impact on the game. while being cost efficient enough to warrant its continued space in your inventory while you continue to build items afterwards. .AK is one of my teammates for the DOTA 2 liquid league. if we're the same guy it just makes me really really good at dota  . TL;DR games are far more about timings than just having the best numbers on your stat sheet.
Do you even play Kassadin often? Kassadin has mana problems through all stages of the game. Every one of his spells cost a decent amount of mana (except W), especially considering how spammable E is and the fact that his ult's mana cost increases by 100 every time you cast it in succession, which builds up very fast.
Not to mention that Rod of Ages unstacked is more cost effective than Ohmwrecker if you take the regen stats out of the question, which you arguably should when you're talking about fighting/skirmishes.
Also not to mention that your timing for Ohmwrecker is probably going to be 15+ minutes since Kassadin sucks early game and can easily get zoned before he hits 6. By that time, Rod would arguably be stronger since you're trading 50 hp for 10 more AP and 450 mana, which means at a minimum 2 more ult stacks/uses. Kassadin also doesn't really have an issue with diving because of his ult.
Kassadin is also quite strong lategame, so it's not like you need to be useful early on or face irrelevance. He just snowballs very well so it's definitely better if you can get rolling fast.
I will cede that Ohmwrecker helps push better, but honestly not by much. Ohmwrecker active lasts for 2.5 seconds, which is 2~3 tower shots, which honestly won't help you push that much faster.
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On August 01 2013 14:20 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
of course ketara is the one who agrees with xizor's bullshit lol
you guys should read what kass' ult does
I didn't say I agreed with it, I said it wasn't so ridiculous that I would at least be willing to entertain the idea.
You're kind of an asshole, by the way.
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Wait, who do I remind people of?
inb4 Ryan Gosling with my stunning looks
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On August 01 2013 14:26 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 14:18 ketchup wrote:
I don't really care for anything else, but this tells me you don't really play Kassadin often. His mana issues are pretty huge, and it's one of the biggest reasons people rush RoA on him. You cannot be effective without that mana.
I didn't want to quote the whole post for just that one line, so I won't.
My initial reason for asking you the question is because Kassadin reminds me of more of a DotA/classical champion than he does a LoL champion. I didn't really mean to draw attention to the fact that you like ohmwrecker as an item, and want to test it on everyone. I apologize for that part. Being Mana hungry and mana starved are different. he doesn't have mana issues until he starts mismanaging his mana or the game hits late and he needs to be ulting every few seconds. Just because he's very commonly played like you have to spam everything off cooldown doesn't mean that's correct or optimal. he doesn't remind me much of dota heroes though.
Kassadin at lvl 6 has 500 mana. Most people max Q first or at least get 2~3 levels in Q first since it's his best laning/trading skill and lets him dominate casters, especially post-6.
Assuming you have level 3 Q, level 1 W, lvl 1 E, and lvl 1 ult. Casting one spell rotation puts you at half mana. How does Kass not have mana problems?
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On August 01 2013 14:22 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 14:20 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
of course ketara is the one who agrees with xizor's bullshit lol
you guys should read what kass' ult does Cheep, may I call you Cheep? Not sure we're on a nickname basis... Anyways, Cheep. When you post I think of a mix of... Roffles, Neo, and Teut. I think you're one of those people, cloned, with a disguise on, halfway across the world from your clone.
uh, he is roffles, lol.
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Dayumm there's some hate going on in this thread. :c
In an attempt to make peace, what do you guys think about the new mr items and Galio? Still niche pick against double ap's? The last time I remember seeing him was as a counterpick to Cass.
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On August 01 2013 14:29 Requizen wrote:
Wait, who do I remind people of?
inb4 Ryan Gosling with my stunning looks
a cross between jesus, jean claude van dam, and Santa Claus.
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On August 01 2013 14:29 Requizen wrote:
Wait, who do I remind people of?
inb4 Ryan Gosling with my stunning looks
I was thinking Brad Pitt post-fightclub aka a shooting star quickly rising into the top of stardom
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Dude Cheep remember when Neo used to hate on Bly for not really discussing things but just asserting shit and then dumping on people who disagreed with him? Imagine if we had him, the last 20 pages wouldn't have happened.
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United States37500 Posts
What about Cheep is like me?
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im just glad that i have carnivorous sheep on my friends list i feel like a member of some private club
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Baa?21243 Posts
On August 01 2013 14:34 NeoIllusions wrote:
What about Cheep is like me?
more like what about me -isn't- like you, amirite?
On August 01 2013 14:34 Scip wrote:
Dude Cheep remember when Neo used to hate on Bly for not really discussing things but just asserting shit and then dumping on people who disagreed with him? Imagine if we had him, the last 20 pages wouldn't have happened.
bly was too good for this forum
all good things must come to an end :'(
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On August 01 2013 14:32 vvSiegvv wrote:
Dayumm there's some hate going on in this thread. :c
In an attempt to make peace, what do you guys think about the new mr items and Galio? Still niche pick against double ap's? The last time I remember seeing him was as a counterpick to Cass.
I think the problem with Galio is that he honestly doesn't do all that much damage after all the nerfs and his ulti is very easily canceled nowadays, especially against more competent teams.
He was a counterpick to Cass because most of Cass's damage before she gets a lot of levels in E her damage was all periodic, which meant his W would easily outheal Cass's damage output. Cass is almost irrelevant now since she's so squishy with no escape, although I think she's probably undervalued/picked right now.
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On August 01 2013 14:34 NeoIllusions wrote:
What about Cheep is like me?
If we sent him pizza, he'd ALSO eat it all to himself. Greedy fuck.
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On August 01 2013 14:26 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 14:18 ketchup wrote:
I don't really care for anything else, but this tells me you don't really play Kassadin often. His mana issues are pretty huge, and it's one of the biggest reasons people rush RoA on him. You cannot be effective without that mana.
I didn't want to quote the whole post for just that one line, so I won't.
My initial reason for asking you the question is because Kassadin reminds me of more of a DotA/classical champion than he does a LoL champion. I didn't really mean to draw attention to the fact that you like ohmwrecker as an item, and want to test it on everyone. I apologize for that part. Being Mana hungry and mana starved are different. he doesn't have mana issues until he starts mismanaging his mana or the game hits late and he needs to be ulting every few seconds. Just because he's very commonly played like you have to spam everything off cooldown doesn't mean that's correct or optimal. he doesn't remind me much of dota heroes though.
What are you talking about? Without that 450mana, he can't even Riftwalk combo twice, let alone thrice. Without RoA, he has like 500 mana at level 6. The more riftwalk he can do, the more damage he deals. People want to stack up the riftwalk so that he can do 1k, 2k damage in one rift.
So if you build Ohm but not RoA, which item will be your next item that will provide him mana? Because all the other core next items, such as void, deathcap, lichbane, zhyna, abbysal, don't give him any mana. I assure you that he will have big mana problem later and later. And if you suggest to build RoA after Ohm, then why even build Ohm?
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EPT
