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On August 13 2013 08:17 kainzero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 07:43 xes wrote:On August 13 2013 07:38 smOOthMayDie wrote:
Don't know if this is the right place to boast, but a reported 932,000 concurrent viewers on the live streams. Just shy of League of Legends' 1.1 million concurrent viewer record. Dota2 getting owned by League's championships LAST YEAR LEWL. Wohoo League of Legends number one eSport for life! Let's shit on the other eSports so that way we can be the big bad dog to compete with all the other avenues for corporate sponsorship and show that our industry is really worth investing in. Hey the Pokemon World Championship was also last weekend! I bet LoL's numbers were higher! Let's shit on that game too! I don't know why DotA and League fans always feel the need to have a pissing contest over whose events are bigger. I can't imagine baseball fans gloating about live attendance numbers to basketball fans.
think about how many kids in America play soccer and how bad the TV ratings are
adjusted for player base they must be REALLY embarrassed.
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On August 13 2013 07:52 Alaric wrote:Why would we "celebrate" or "boast" at all? Absolute numbers are one thing, comparing to "concurrent" games is another. Meh, let's drop down the e-penis contests. :/ Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 07:17 cLutZ wrote:On August 13 2013 07:04 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On August 13 2013 07:00 Cloud9157 wrote:On August 13 2013 06:49 cLutZ wrote:
Vi was so over hyped. Honestly she needs more farm than the jungle to do her stuff. Don't think having basically the longest range engage in the game is/was overhyped. And the lack of ability to ward effectively against her is shitty too. She comes with pretty good damage just looking at her kit. I'd say Ashe and TF and Noc and Panth all have longer engages, but for spells that aren't at least Semi-Global, yeah it's pretty big. But the difference is that an aware player can drag you into their entire team and you die fast, whereas Malphite thrives in that situation. That is because Vi tries to do it with SOTAG + 1 ruby crystal, whereas Malphite does it with Sunfire+Randuins (plus kits obviously, even though for diving purposes her passive is just like Malphite's). Back before her nerfs, Vi did what Zed kinda does now in midlane: super reliable nearly infinite waveclear + very safe + kill potential, plus she abused League of Cleaver really well. In any case, before her release every pro was like creaming themselves about her, which is why I said she was so overhyped. Comparing Vi to Zed? I mean, I disagree with you on pretty much any subject, but still... - She's gated by mana. - She can't farm at range (so she can't shove unless she zones you, she takes harass while she clears, and if behind she's easy as pie to zone and deny unless her jungler camps). - She needs to charge her Q to make it a reliable escape, slowing herself in the process. Any root/stun/silence hitting her meanwhile will cancel her Q and put it on a 3s cd. - She's got no escape at all once she goes in, which in the short mid lane makes dives much more risky, esp. since that's the lane the enemy jungler is most susceptible to be close to at most times.
I didn't say she was as good as zed.
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On August 13 2013 08:19 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:17 kainzero wrote:On August 13 2013 07:43 xes wrote:On August 13 2013 07:38 smOOthMayDie wrote:
Don't know if this is the right place to boast, but a reported 932,000 concurrent viewers on the live streams. Just shy of League of Legends' 1.1 million concurrent viewer record. Dota2 getting owned by League's championships LAST YEAR LEWL. Wohoo League of Legends number one eSport for life! Let's shit on the other eSports so that way we can be the big bad dog to compete with all the other avenues for corporate sponsorship and show that our industry is really worth investing in. Hey the Pokemon World Championship was also last weekend! I bet LoL's numbers were higher! Let's shit on that game too! I don't know why DotA and League fans always feel the need to have a pissing contest over whose events are bigger. I can't imagine baseball fans gloating about live attendance numbers to basketball fans. think about how many kids in America play soccer and how bad the TV ratings are adjusted for player base they must be REALLY embarrassed.
Yeah adjustment for player/fanbase is essentially a measure of how successful an event is at reaching its core audience. Soccer in USA fails pretty hard.
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it's a retarded statistic.
Video games are now pretty mainstream for adults, until esports follows, the more popular your game is the worse you will perform at this stat.
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United States23745 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:17 TheYango wrote:
To be honest, the fact that League viewership numbers vastly outstrip DotA's is old news, to the point of not being worth discussing at this point. That ship has long since sailed.
The more relevant question is whether World's can make up for the fiasco last year and match TI3's production this year--especially since while TI3 had better production value this year, it also had a couple more technical hiccups than TI2.
Which I'm worried they might not be able to do. Although as long as they avoid another CLG.EU/WE disaster the group states will most likely be better. Although it terms of the quality of the games it's gonna be hard to compete with TI3, dem finals.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:21 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yeah adjustment for player/fanbase is essentially a measure of how successful an event is at reaching its core audience. Soccer in USA fails pretty hard.
Your implication is that a game that has a higher percentage of its audience interested in e-sports is the more successful e-sports game, which isn't true. It is possible for something that is not directly geared toward an e-sports audience (and therefore garners a large casual playerbase that is irrelevant to e-sports to also be a successful e-sports game. I don't see how that makes the game worse, despite making it weaker in terms of your chosen statistic.
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On August 13 2013 08:19 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:17 kainzero wrote:On August 13 2013 07:43 xes wrote:On August 13 2013 07:38 smOOthMayDie wrote:
Don't know if this is the right place to boast, but a reported 932,000 concurrent viewers on the live streams. Just shy of League of Legends' 1.1 million concurrent viewer record. Dota2 getting owned by League's championships LAST YEAR LEWL. Wohoo League of Legends number one eSport for life! Let's shit on the other eSports so that way we can be the big bad dog to compete with all the other avenues for corporate sponsorship and show that our industry is really worth investing in. Hey the Pokemon World Championship was also last weekend! I bet LoL's numbers were higher! Let's shit on that game too! I don't know why DotA and League fans always feel the need to have a pissing contest over whose events are bigger. I can't imagine baseball fans gloating about live attendance numbers to basketball fans. think about how many kids in America play soccer and how bad the TV ratings are adjusted for player base they must be REALLY embarrassed.
NBC is going all-in for EPL coverage this season, and there was a huge bidding war between Fox and ESPN for it.
Whenever big foreign teams (EPL teams, mixed All-Star like Messi and Friends, La Liga, Serie A) come to the US the events are usually sold out very quickly.
I'm not even a fan of soccer, I just read the newspaper every day in the morning.
Regardless there is no reason for LoL and DotA fans to be fighting and bragging about viewer numbers.
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On August 13 2013 08:21 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:19 Slusher wrote:On August 13 2013 08:17 kainzero wrote:On August 13 2013 07:43 xes wrote:On August 13 2013 07:38 smOOthMayDie wrote:
Don't know if this is the right place to boast, but a reported 932,000 concurrent viewers on the live streams. Just shy of League of Legends' 1.1 million concurrent viewer record. Dota2 getting owned by League's championships LAST YEAR LEWL. Wohoo League of Legends number one eSport for life! Let's shit on the other eSports so that way we can be the big bad dog to compete with all the other avenues for corporate sponsorship and show that our industry is really worth investing in. Hey the Pokemon World Championship was also last weekend! I bet LoL's numbers were higher! Let's shit on that game too! I don't know why DotA and League fans always feel the need to have a pissing contest over whose events are bigger. I can't imagine baseball fans gloating about live attendance numbers to basketball fans. think about how many kids in America play soccer and how bad the TV ratings are adjusted for player base they must be REALLY embarrassed. Yeah adjustment for player/fanbase is essentially a measure of how successful an event is at reaching its core audience. Soccer in USA fails pretty hard.
You're implying that if the casual players who play 1-2 games per week were removed from the earth, LoL would somehow magically be better as an esport without changing anything else. I don't see how the existence of casual players has anything at all to do with esport success.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:23 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:17 TheYango wrote:
To be honest, the fact that League viewership numbers vastly outstrip DotA's is old news, to the point of not being worth discussing at this point. That ship has long since sailed.
The more relevant question is whether World's can make up for the fiasco last year and match TI3's production this year--especially since while TI3 had better production value this year, it also had a couple more technical hiccups than TI2. Which I'm worried they might not be able to do. Although as long as they avoid another CLG.EU/WE disaster the group states will most likely be better. Although it terms of the quality of the games it's gonna be hard to compete with TI3, dem finals.
Well the other thing is that Valve got unlucky the way this year that Riot did last year--that the version of the game played at both S2 Worlds and TI3 happens to be less teamfight-driven and more split-push/farming/map-control driven. This tends to lead to longer games with bigger lulls in the action.
Honestly, I think the version of LoL played at IPL5 had greater spectator appeal than the one played at Worlds.
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On August 13 2013 08:14 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:00 PrinceXizor wrote:On August 13 2013 07:38 smOOthMayDie wrote:
Don't know if this is the right place to boast, but a reported 932,000 concurrent viewers on the live streams. Just shy of League of Legends' 1.1 million concurrent viewer record. Dota2 getting owned by League's championships LAST YEAR LEWL. its 1.01 million for dota excluding any korean stream or any of the tv broadcasts. of the event. adjusted for total playerbase dota did manage numbers that would equal to 5 million concurrent for league. Did the League figure include TV broadcasts in China/Korea?
I remember seeing an infographic that estimated the number of viewers for TV broadcasts in China/Korea, but those numbers weren't/shouldn't be included in the 1.1 million viewer record for League Championships last year.
This debate over viewership is kinda dumb anyways. TI3 was ridiculously successful regardless of whatever metric you use. S2 LoL World Championships was also very successful, again regardless of whatever metric was used. Esports becoming bigger and more mainstream should be great news to gamers everywhere regardless of what game is driving or co-driving the movement.
The only relevant discussion is what Riot can learn from TI3 and hopefully top or at least rival TI3's production value.
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Whether LoL's big event or DotA's big event gets more viewers is news I'm interested in, not a pointless discussion at all. Nowhere in this is the implication that I hate DotA, the international was a great event and I'm curious to see how well it did on the only real metric we have for measuring.
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On August 13 2013 08:29 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:23 onlywonderboy wrote:On August 13 2013 08:17 TheYango wrote:
To be honest, the fact that League viewership numbers vastly outstrip DotA's is old news, to the point of not being worth discussing at this point. That ship has long since sailed.
The more relevant question is whether World's can make up for the fiasco last year and match TI3's production this year--especially since while TI3 had better production value this year, it also had a couple more technical hiccups than TI2. Which I'm worried they might not be able to do. Although as long as they avoid another CLG.EU/WE disaster the group states will most likely be better. Although it terms of the quality of the games it's gonna be hard to compete with TI3, dem finals. Well the other thing is that Valve got unlucky the way this year that Riot did last year--that the version of the game played at both S2 Worlds and TI3 happens to be less teamfight-driven and more split-push/farming/map-control driven. This tends to lead to longer games with bigger lulls in the action. Honestly, I think the version of LoL played at IPL5 had greater spectator appeal than the one played at Worlds.
I think he was referring to the 50 million game pause/restarts of the CLG.eu v. WE match as the "disaster" rather than the 50+ minute, cheering at ward kills, aspect of the game.
As an aside, I actually really enjoyed most of the games at TI this year, although watching fucking prophet splitpush was really really frustrating at times. It made for an amazing game 5 in the grand finals though. So I guess Prophet isn't all bullshit.
On August 13 2013 08:30 TheLink wrote:
Whether LoL's big event or DotA's big event gets more viewers is news I'm interested in, not a pointless discussion at all. Nowhere in this is the implication that I hate DotA, the international was a great event and I'm curious to see how well it did on the only real metric we have for measuring.
I get that curiosity and I personally get a small kick out of seeing LoL numbers top Dota 2 numbers, but I feel like this is one of those topics that doesn't really go anywhere and seems to always devolve into a dota v. lol flamefest.
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Was going to jump in and throw out my 2 cents but you guys summed up my thoughts on it pretty well. Here's to hoping that Riot learns a few things and really steps up their production value for s3 finals!
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they shoulda re buffed undying right before TI3 so we at least had trilane v trilane every game.
safe lane v safe lane so boring in comparison.
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United States23745 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:29 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:23 onlywonderboy wrote:On August 13 2013 08:17 TheYango wrote:
To be honest, the fact that League viewership numbers vastly outstrip DotA's is old news, to the point of not being worth discussing at this point. That ship has long since sailed.
The more relevant question is whether World's can make up for the fiasco last year and match TI3's production this year--especially since while TI3 had better production value this year, it also had a couple more technical hiccups than TI2. Which I'm worried they might not be able to do. Although as long as they avoid another CLG.EU/WE disaster the group states will most likely be better. Although it terms of the quality of the games it's gonna be hard to compete with TI3, dem finals. Well the other thing is that Valve got unlucky the way this year that Riot did last year--that the version of the game played at both S2 Worlds and TI3 happens to be less teamfight-driven and more split-push/farming/map-control driven. This tends to lead to longer games with bigger lulls in the action. Honestly, I think the version of LoL played at IPL5 had greater spectator appeal than the one played at Worlds.
RIP IPL.
Fuck IPL5 was so good. Now I wanna go back and watch IPL5 VoDs. Boots 3 on everyone is weird to see again lol.
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On August 13 2013 08:34 Slusher wrote:
they shoulda re buffed undying right before TI3 so we at least had trilane v trilane every game.
safe lane v safe lane so boring in comparison.
I missed seeing Undying, but seeing CM being played a decent amount was pretty awesome. Dem TL CM ults OP.
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And yeah fuck Furion, I do kinda hate DotA right now but that's entirely based on NaVi throwing it all away.  If NaVi had backdoored Alliance I'd be over the moon.
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On August 13 2013 08:25 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:21 PrinceXizor wrote:
Yeah adjustment for player/fanbase is essentially a measure of how successful an event is at reaching its core audience. Soccer in USA fails pretty hard. Your implication is that a game that has a higher percentage of its audience interested in e-sports is the more successful e-sports game, which isn't true. It is possible for something that is not directly geared toward an e-sports audience (and therefore garners a large casual playerbase that is irrelevant to e-sports to also be a successful e-sports game. I don't see how that makes the game worse, despite making it weaker in terms of your chosen statistic.
Thats not the implication. I specifically stated what it measures IN the post you quoted yango. it measures how successful the EVENT is at reaching its core audience.
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On August 13 2013 08:35 TheLink wrote:And yeah fuck Furion, I do kinda hate DotA right now but that's entirely based on NaVi throwing it all away. If NaVi had backdoored Alliance I'd be over the moon.
I know everyone's praising S4 for his game-changing Puck ultis, but I honestly think the second Puck ulti, the one that stopped Dendi's TP back home, was more a misplay on the part of Dendi and Puppey than anything.
For one thing, Dendi TP'd to throne rather than mid tower or fountain, which resulted in a considerably longer TP channel time. On top of that, when Puppey was running away from S4, he ran towards Dendi. I don't believe S4 had vision of Dendi and wouldn't have ulted Dendi if it wasn't for Puppey basically leading S4 towards Dendi.
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EPT
