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On July 27 2013 04:53 TheYango wrote:
In competitive play, the choice already exists--it just isn't made due to champ selection and convention. In solo queue, even if the choice existed, you wouldn't get to farm a jungler because no top laner would listen to you if you told him to be poor and carry the Aegis while you got to farm. He'd tell you to go fuck off.
That's when you mute and carry the game as Jungle Trynd 
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I've been thinking. With the amount of 2v1 lanes happening if said 2v1s lasted longer then 5 minutes why wouldn't it work to have your "solo" laner start in the jungle while your "jungler" goes into the 2v1. After the lanes open up the solo laner can transition out of the jungle and into the lane where the jungler than goes from the lane back into the jungle. The only reason why I see this not working is the whole machete business?
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United States47024 Posts
On July 27 2013 04:52 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 04:51 TheYango wrote:
And how do you create that choice? A farmed jungler has to come at the expense of taking that farm off a solo laner. Such an option exists already, particularly since in 1v2 lanes, laning phase breaks with the 1v2 laner having approximately similar farm to the jungler.
It's just that people select junglers with ganking power, early game strength, and mediocre farming ability so by and large when you're picking between farming the 1v2 laner and the jungler, you farm the 1v2 laner because his hero does more with farm, even though at the point where laning phase broke they had equivalent farm. That is because farming the jungle up to that point is such an inferior choice. A 1v2 laner should be devastatingly behind a jungler who actually tried farming.
In which case, there would be no conceivable reason to farm the off-laner then. You'd still have 3 farming role heroes, it'd just be the off-laner who gets to be poor. Then we'd have the exact same scenario, just with different players complaining.
The map simply doesn't have the resources to allow for more than 3 heroes to be "farmed". At most you will have 3 points that can be safely farmed--2 lanes + the jungle (it's rare that all 3 lanes will be farm-able at a given moment--either it will be pushed out too far, or the enemy will be applying pressure to one or more lanes, making that lane dangerous to farm at 100% efficiency), and in some cases you will only have 1-2. As such, you can only really efficiently have 3 champions farmed at full speed, and trying to farm the remaining 2 will be suboptimal by the nature of how dispersed gold is less effective than concentrated gold.
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On July 27 2013 04:56 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 04:53 TheYango wrote:
In competitive play, the choice already exists--it just isn't made due to champ selection and convention. In solo queue, even if the choice existed, you wouldn't get to farm a jungler because no top laner would listen to you if you told him to be poor and carry the Aegis while you got to farm. He'd tell you to go fuck off. That's when you mute and carry the game as Jungle Trynd
and have your jungler pick someone who can buy aegis and be a bit underfarmed and still be useful in teamfights right?
what about he leaves his lane to go help gank while you catch up on farm by farming top?
sounds good so far? Why not make him jungle and YOU go top lane
ooo
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On July 27 2013 05:08 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 04:56 Requizen wrote:On July 27 2013 04:53 TheYango wrote:
In competitive play, the choice already exists--it just isn't made due to champ selection and convention. In solo queue, even if the choice existed, you wouldn't get to farm a jungler because no top laner would listen to you if you told him to be poor and carry the Aegis while you got to farm. He'd tell you to go fuck off. That's when you mute and carry the game as Jungle Trynd and have your jungler pick someone who can buy aegis and be a bit underfarmed and still be useful in teamfights right? what about he leaves his lane to go help gank while you catch up on farm by farming top? sounds good so far? Why not make him jungle and YOU go top lane ooo
I smell a conspiracy.
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On July 27 2013 05:08 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 04:56 Requizen wrote:On July 27 2013 04:53 TheYango wrote:
In competitive play, the choice already exists--it just isn't made due to champ selection and convention. In solo queue, even if the choice existed, you wouldn't get to farm a jungler because no top laner would listen to you if you told him to be poor and carry the Aegis while you got to farm. He'd tell you to go fuck off. That's when you mute and carry the game as Jungle Trynd and have your jungler pick someone who can buy aegis and be a bit underfarmed and still be useful in teamfights right? what about he leaves his lane to go help gank while you catch up on farm by farming top? sounds good so far? Why not make him jungle and YOU go top lane ooo
I thought the licky face was to indicate the fact that I was not making a serious post.
Next time I will use this face + Show Spoiler +
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On July 27 2013 05:08 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 04:52 cLutZ wrote:On July 27 2013 04:51 TheYango wrote:
And how do you create that choice? A farmed jungler has to come at the expense of taking that farm off a solo laner. Such an option exists already, particularly since in 1v2 lanes, laning phase breaks with the 1v2 laner having approximately similar farm to the jungler.
It's just that people select junglers with ganking power, early game strength, and mediocre farming ability so by and large when you're picking between farming the 1v2 laner and the jungler, you farm the 1v2 laner because his hero does more with farm, even though at the point where laning phase broke they had equivalent farm. That is because farming the jungle up to that point is such an inferior choice. A 1v2 laner should be devastatingly behind a jungler who actually tried farming. In which case, there would be no conceivable reason to farm the off-laner then. You'd still have 3 farming role heroes, it'd just be the off-laner who gets to be poor. Then we'd have the exact same scenario, just with different players complaining. The map simply doesn't have the resources to allow for more than 3 heroes to be "farmed". At most you will have 3 points that can be safely farmed--2 lanes + the jungle (it's rare that all 3 lanes will be farm-able at a given moment--either it will be pushed out too far, or the enemy will be applying pressure to one or more lanes, making that lane dangerous to farm at 100% efficiency), and in some cases you will only have 1-2. As such, you can only really efficiently have 3 champions farmed at full speed, and trying to farm the remaining 2 will be suboptimal by the nature of how dispersed gold is less effective than concentrated gold.
You are ignoring that a team is investing 2 champions to shut down 1 champion. Its no different than a coordinated invade. Right now the jungler is shut down even if we go 112 and there are minimal invades. That is the difference.
Yet another reason why fears of the carry jungler are overstated: Counterjungling and invades.
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On July 27 2013 04:38 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 04:20 Ketara wrote:
So, TROLLS has a request for you guys.
In the next 3 hours, figure out the "best" Blue Corki build.
Trinity Force or Iceborne?
Black Cleaver or Last Whisper?
BotRK yes or no?
Lets do some theorycrafting, I don't know how these magical blue builds work. Gogo! Two main Corki builds TheYango and I have discussed are: - Blade, Blade, SotEL, IBG - Blade, Blade, Sheen, Bruta, BC, IBG Two Doran's Blades is standard but you can obviously skip them if you wind up ahead. Add in Vamp Scepter if you need the sustain, it's always about adapting to your lane and then game overall. afaik, I don't think we've discussed BotRK as an option on Corki. It's somewhat of an awkward buildup for him.
You guys really think IBG is better than Trinity on Corki? Does he need the slow on his autos that much?
If you aren't getting BotRK, what's your alternative?
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I'm consistently facing high gold/platinums in normals playing my Elise, while I'm in Silver 1 ranked... can I interpret this as my Elise being ready for ranked?
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On July 27 2013 05:32 XilDarkz wrote:
I'm consistently facing high gold/platinums in normals playing my Elise, while I'm in Silver 1 ranked... can I interpret this as my Elise being ready for ranked?
Probably? It really depends how you feel on Elise. Are you comfortable with it?
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On July 27 2013 05:32 XilDarkz wrote:
I'm consistently facing high gold/platinums in normals playing my Elise, while I'm in Silver 1 ranked... can I interpret this as my Elise being ready for ranked?
I think you're taking ranked too seriously, I just play whoever I feel like in ranked and most people actually do that too.
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On July 27 2013 05:08 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 04:52 cLutZ wrote:On July 27 2013 04:51 TheYango wrote:
And how do you create that choice? A farmed jungler has to come at the expense of taking that farm off a solo laner. Such an option exists already, particularly since in 1v2 lanes, laning phase breaks with the 1v2 laner having approximately similar farm to the jungler.
It's just that people select junglers with ganking power, early game strength, and mediocre farming ability so by and large when you're picking between farming the 1v2 laner and the jungler, you farm the 1v2 laner because his hero does more with farm, even though at the point where laning phase broke they had equivalent farm. That is because farming the jungle up to that point is such an inferior choice. A 1v2 laner should be devastatingly behind a jungler who actually tried farming. In which case, there would be no conceivable reason to farm the off-laner then. You'd still have 3 farming role heroes, it'd just be the off-laner who gets to be poor. Then we'd have the exact same scenario, just with different players complaining. The map simply doesn't have the resources to allow for more than 3 heroes to be "farmed". At most you will have 3 points that can be safely farmed--2 lanes + the jungle (it's rare that all 3 lanes will be farm-able at a given moment--either it will be pushed out too far, or the enemy will be applying pressure to one or more lanes, making that lane dangerous to farm at 100% efficiency), and in some cases you will only have 1-2. As such, you can only really efficiently have 3 champions farmed at full speed, and trying to farm the remaining 2 will be suboptimal by the nature of how dispersed gold is less effective than concentrated gold.
Is jungle Eve a 3rd farm priority jungler?
Also what is TL's chatroom's name
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On July 27 2013 05:17 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 05:08 Slayer91 wrote:On July 27 2013 04:56 Requizen wrote:On July 27 2013 04:53 TheYango wrote:
In competitive play, the choice already exists--it just isn't made due to champ selection and convention. In solo queue, even if the choice existed, you wouldn't get to farm a jungler because no top laner would listen to you if you told him to be poor and carry the Aegis while you got to farm. He'd tell you to go fuck off. That's when you mute and carry the game as Jungle Trynd and have your jungler pick someone who can buy aegis and be a bit underfarmed and still be useful in teamfights right? what about he leaves his lane to go help gank while you catch up on farm by farming top? sounds good so far? Why not make him jungle and YOU go top lane ooo I thought the licky face was to indicate the fact that I was not making a serious post. Next time I will use this face + Show Spoiler +
point stands yo
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On July 27 2013 05:33 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 05:32 XilDarkz wrote:
I'm consistently facing high gold/platinums in normals playing my Elise, while I'm in Silver 1 ranked... can I interpret this as my Elise being ready for ranked? Probably? It really depends how you feel on Elise. Are you comfortable with it?
Maybe its the lack of mechanical skill required... I feel like I could be playing a lot better but I'm still doing ridiculously well... I don't like how easy this hero is really.
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On July 27 2013 05:48 XilDarkz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 05:33 wei2coolman wrote:On July 27 2013 05:32 XilDarkz wrote:
I'm consistently facing high gold/platinums in normals playing my Elise, while I'm in Silver 1 ranked... can I interpret this as my Elise being ready for ranked? Probably? It really depends how you feel on Elise. Are you comfortable with it? Maybe its the lack of mechanical skill required... I feel like I could be playing a lot better but I'm still doing ridiculously well... I don't like how easy this hero is really.
Then go play it.
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On July 27 2013 05:45 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 05:17 Requizen wrote:On July 27 2013 05:08 Slayer91 wrote:On July 27 2013 04:56 Requizen wrote:On July 27 2013 04:53 TheYango wrote:
In competitive play, the choice already exists--it just isn't made due to champ selection and convention. In solo queue, even if the choice existed, you wouldn't get to farm a jungler because no top laner would listen to you if you told him to be poor and carry the Aegis while you got to farm. He'd tell you to go fuck off. That's when you mute and carry the game as Jungle Trynd and have your jungler pick someone who can buy aegis and be a bit underfarmed and still be useful in teamfights right? what about he leaves his lane to go help gank while you catch up on farm by farming top? sounds good so far? Why not make him jungle and YOU go top lane ooo I thought the licky face was to indicate the fact that I was not making a serious post. Next time I will use this face + Show Spoiler + point stands yo
Well, it's dependent like anything else. You don't pick Soraka and Vayne together, you don't pick Akali when their team is un-diveable, you don't pick a carry jungle when your top isn't a tank who can deal with it.
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Teamfighting as Elise is very hard.
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On July 27 2013 05:48 XilDarkz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 05:33 wei2coolman wrote:On July 27 2013 05:32 XilDarkz wrote:
I'm consistently facing high gold/platinums in normals playing my Elise, while I'm in Silver 1 ranked... can I interpret this as my Elise being ready for ranked? Probably? It really depends how you feel on Elise. Are you comfortable with it? Maybe its the lack of mechanical skill required... I feel like I could be playing a lot better but I'm still doing ridiculously well... I don't like how easy this hero is really.
hero's broken, guarantee you could be doing twice as much but you can play bad and still wreck people.
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On July 27 2013 05:52 kainzero wrote:
Teamfighting as Elise is very hard.
was this a joke? ...
edit: first ranked game as elise, fell flat on my face trying to counter jungle an amumu, played too aggressively... failed utterly.
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On July 27 2013 05:51 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2013 05:45 Slayer91 wrote:On July 27 2013 05:17 Requizen wrote:On July 27 2013 05:08 Slayer91 wrote:On July 27 2013 04:56 Requizen wrote:On July 27 2013 04:53 TheYango wrote:
In competitive play, the choice already exists--it just isn't made due to champ selection and convention. In solo queue, even if the choice existed, you wouldn't get to farm a jungler because no top laner would listen to you if you told him to be poor and carry the Aegis while you got to farm. He'd tell you to go fuck off. That's when you mute and carry the game as Jungle Trynd and have your jungler pick someone who can buy aegis and be a bit underfarmed and still be useful in teamfights right? what about he leaves his lane to go help gank while you catch up on farm by farming top? sounds good so far? Why not make him jungle and YOU go top lane ooo I thought the licky face was to indicate the fact that I was not making a serious post. Next time I will use this face + Show Spoiler + point stands yo Well, it's dependent like anything else. You don't pick Soraka and Vayne together, you don't pick Akali when their team is un-diveable, you don't pick a carry jungle when your top isn't a tank who can deal with it.
you missed the point, theres no reason to play this way when it makes more sense to pick the farm heavy guy top and the guy who doenst ened much farm adn has more cc to gank jungle
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