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On June 15 2013 06:58 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +Originally Posted by StonedSamurai
Irelia looks broken on paper but if you actually see her play, or look at the end game stats, you'd realize that your opinion about her is 100% wrong, at least in this meta.
Do you know what irelia doesn't have?
1. Reliable CC. Her E is unreliable and the stun applies at the end of the cast animation meaning it's avoidable..
2. Scaling: Build AD on her and see what happens. If you win a game because you built AD, you were either completely fed from the beginning or your team carried you. I've lost games because I built damage items on irelia instead of going for another tank item.
3. Poke: Unless you want to use your ult for damage less than what 1 jayce Q does.
4. Wave clear: You either use half your mana or blow your ult to wave clear.
Morello, I think I'm one of the top Irelia players on NA. I've played a couple hundred games of her this season and my highest elo was diamond I. I've followed your posts on Irelia and I can't help but feel the stuff you say reflect that you have little idea on how she works as a champion in season 2-3. Her skills on paper =/= what happens in game. Morello: The problem is you guys are only validating that it was good to nerf her, she's not overpowered. When you give a champion a ton of unrelated mechanics that provide low-decision making and invisible power, it's hard for that champion to be satisfying and balanced. Additionally, the only thing she (and some other metabruisers) bring is "I'm stronger than other people." When that's true, the dominate and push out other options. When false, they're not usable. Aatrox's difference is he makes decisions about health management, and has pacing that allows for moments of strength/weakness. Morello makes me really, really sad sometimes. Some of the highest sustain with relatively low health costs is "interesting" while low sustain, generally leveled first at 3, is broken.
To be fair, Irelia's lane sustain pre-nerfs to W was rather ridiculous, even without turning on W.
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26 per hit wasnt ridiculous, it just was considering how strong her trades were also
aatrox isnt even that good i dont know why people would compare him to irelia
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On June 15 2013 07:04 Slayer91 wrote:
26 per hit wasnt ridiculous, it just was considering how strong her trades were also
aatrox isnt even that good i dont know why people would compare him to irelia
Yeah, but the thing is that 26 per hit is actually more than Aatrox gets.
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Pre-W-nerf Irelia was a little too high sustain. But if she's an example of a poorly designed character then Aatrox should never have been released. What does Aatrox do if he can't 1v1 you? (Which is Morello's counter to Zac/Kha being poorly designed characters - that they provide things besides damage.)
Aatrox's kit is inherently flawed - he's either strong enough to kill your, or he's useless. And his passive has no counterplay, unlike Anivia/Zac's revives. So stupid he's trying to justify Aatrox.
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On June 15 2013 07:08 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 07:04 Slayer91 wrote:
26 per hit wasnt ridiculous, it just was considering how strong her trades were also
aatrox isnt even that good i dont know why people would compare him to irelia Yeah, but the thing is that 26 per hit is actually more than Aatrox gets.
Irelia has a flat 13/26 health per hit. Aatrox sustain scales with AD, and even without ad, it's significantly more than Irelia when he's below 50% health.
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On June 15 2013 07:04 Slayer91 wrote:
26 per hit wasnt ridiculous, it just was considering how strong her trades were also
aatrox isnt even that good i dont know why people would compare him to irelia
inb4 we see him pick/ban in every lcs game, lets not judge his strength right away, jayce,khaix,zed,elise,zac were considered weak at release by majority of people lol
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On June 15 2013 06:50 LaNague wrote:
yeah, heimer was like prenerf mordekaiser...set up in his lane and push all the way to the nexus.
But they changed him a lot and now he just has this funny kit that doesnt do anything except being annoying in aram games.
idk he's pretty retarded good im aram tbh.
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On June 15 2013 07:24 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 07:04 Slayer91 wrote:
26 per hit wasnt ridiculous, it just was considering how strong her trades were also
aatrox isnt even that good i dont know why people would compare him to irelia inb4 we see him pick/ban in every lcs game, lets not judge his strength right away, jayce,khaix,zed,elise,zac were considered weak at release by majority of people lol
Jayce has gone through a lot of balance changes since release, and his current ban status is due to muramune being changed to physical
Khazix This one is the most true, a lot of people got baited into maxing Q and it was not until Reapered revealed the power of W max that he became huge, that said s3 helped a lot.
Elise and Zed were released after Worlds so it was in the abyss where there really was not any tournaments going on. And Elise was buffed before she hit first pick/ban status.
People said release Zac was bad????????
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Kha'Zix was also an utterly stupid and overlooked design for a freaking assassin. It was not even about nerfing his previous iteration, it's about moving him to his intended role.
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On June 15 2013 05:01 Sandster wrote:Congratulations  I should have asked this earlier, but do you know what happened to the guys on the TL C team? I see Dusty still around, but he didn't really play on the team. I've see Bladeorade in game. Where are SNSD Ahri, twoplustwo, reket, and Shloober these days? My exam studying is over with so I have some free time for arranged 5's again, and would love to join a new team once I sharpen my mechanics again.
I'm pretty sure SNSD Ahri got a name change, no clue what it is now though. I haven't seen twoplustwo or reket lately, but I know schloob took a break, and is playing a bit now.
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On June 15 2013 06:36 Lord Tolkien wrote:What part do you disagree with? I'm actually rather satisfied with why he thinks Aatarox's W is less of a problem then Irelia's W (besides the true damage), and his comments on the other parts of Aatarox's design (namely, steroid ultimate and non-kit-cohesive Q+E) being the main concerns. I don't necessarily agree, but I understand.
Becuase Riot rarely removes mechanics of abilities sans rework. So naturally you turn to his sustain. Just like Riot did with Irelia.
So I've decided to stop using the super janky left button "attack move click." Issue is I would need to horribly disfigure my pink to be able to press shift. Halp.
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Oh my god.
New Wits End does a ridiculous amount of damage on Udyr. Pheonix stance with that thing just melts kids.
I missed wits. I assume it good on Shyvana, jungletrox, Chogath, teemo, etc.
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On June 15 2013 07:43 iCanada wrote:
Oh my god.
New Wits End does a ridiculous amount of damage on Udyr. Pheonix stance with that thing just melts kids.
I missed wits. I assume it good on Shyvana, jungletrox, Chogath, teemo, etc.
idk iedge + shiv tigerdyr pretty good.
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On June 15 2013 07:46 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 07:43 iCanada wrote:
Oh my god.
New Wits End does a ridiculous amount of damage on Udyr. Pheonix stance with that thing just melts kids.
I missed wits. I assume it good on Shyvana, jungletrox, Chogath, teemo, etc.
idk iedge + shiv tigerdyr pretty good.
Yeah but what kind of jungler can afford that?
Just wits end with Pheonix is so manly. Plus his clearing is a bigger plus again with jungle changes.
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I dont understand why nobody is talking about on hit Kayle. I mean Aatrox is nice but Kayle's kit combined with new Nashors AND Wit's end is ridiculous. You max E first and build Nashors, Greaves and Wit's end ASAP. By the time you've finished these you will deal preyy much on hit true damage because of the Kayle passive, masteries and Wit's end. I follow up with Guinsoo's rageblade and then Liandry's.
It's insane and sooner or later people are going to pick up on this. Can't believe people aren't raging about it already.
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On June 15 2013 07:14 Sandster wrote:
Pre-W-nerf Irelia was a little too high sustain. But if she's an example of a poorly designed character then Aatrox should never have been released. What does Aatrox do if he can't 1v1 you? (Which is Morello's counter to Zac/Kha being poorly designed characters - that they provide things besides damage.)
Aatrox's kit is inherently flawed - he's either strong enough to kill your, or he's useless. And his passive has no counterplay, unlike Anivia/Zac's revives. So stupid he's trying to justify Aatrox.
But Irelia's W at least costs mana and it is not always on.
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On June 15 2013 07:39 swim224 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 05:01 Sandster wrote:Congratulations I should have asked this earlier, but do you know what happened to the guys on the TL C team? I see Dusty still around, but he didn't really play on the team. I've see Bladeorade in game. Where are SNSD Ahri, twoplustwo, reket, and Shloober these days? My exam studying is over with so I have some free time for arranged 5's again, and would love to join a new team once I sharpen my mechanics again. I'm pretty sure SNSD Ahri got a name change, no clue what it is now though. I haven't seen twoplustwo or reket lately, but I know schloob took a break, and is playing a bit now.
I think SNSD Ahri is Mega Tofu now? Or maybe that was someone else I don't quite remember
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Aatrox with Rageblade and Visage has to be the most hilarious thing I've ever tried in LoL, feels like a permanent Trynd ult.
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On June 15 2013 08:08 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 07:14 Sandster wrote:
Pre-W-nerf Irelia was a little too high sustain. But if she's an example of a poorly designed character then Aatrox should never have been released. What does Aatrox do if he can't 1v1 you? (Which is Morello's counter to Zac/Kha being poorly designed characters - that they provide things besides damage.)
Aatrox's kit is inherently flawed - he's either strong enough to kill your, or he's useless. And his passive has no counterplay, unlike Anivia/Zac's revives. So stupid he's trying to justify Aatrox. But Irelia's W at least costs mana and it is not always on.
The W only cost mana for the true damage portion.
The sustain was always on (currently only 50%, though previously it was 100% uptime on sustain). As someone who play(ed)s alot of Irelia, it was pretty bullshit; it was more or less impossible for you to lose lane with the amount of health sustain you had, even if you couldn't kill and snowball the lane.
Not saying that Aatarox isn't suffering from glaring design problems (he most certainly is). I just understand why Morello thinks his W isn't a problem as a whole versus Vlad or Irelia (as the classic top lane sustain cases), and the rest of his kit is just...lacking any cohesion. And steroid ults are kinda bleh.
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On June 15 2013 08:15 Nos- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 07:39 swim224 wrote:On June 15 2013 05:01 Sandster wrote:Congratulations I should have asked this earlier, but do you know what happened to the guys on the TL C team? I see Dusty still around, but he didn't really play on the team. I've see Bladeorade in game. Where are SNSD Ahri, twoplustwo, reket, and Shloober these days? My exam studying is over with so I have some free time for arranged 5's again, and would love to join a new team once I sharpen my mechanics again. I'm pretty sure SNSD Ahri got a name change, no clue what it is now though. I haven't seen twoplustwo or reket lately, but I know schloob took a break, and is playing a bit now. I think SNSD Ahri is Mega Tofu now? Or maybe that was someone else I don't quite remember
Yes. It's megatofu
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EPT
