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On June 15 2013 05:21 Ketara wrote:
Here's an on topic League query.
If I want to make a rune page for an AP mid where I want to cheese the fuck out of the enemy mid and go all in at level 1, what Seals do I put on this page? Armor or flat HP? Or maybe AP?
Don't you go all AP 30/0/0 Level 2 all in on Fizz to get free elo.
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On June 15 2013 05:23 Capricious_LoL wrote:
How do you go all in level one as an AP mid lol.
I can't even think of a champ that you can possible lvl1 someone mid as an ap. Maybe Ryze Q and somehow they let you spam then down idk maybe Cass Q? and you just auto them to death. Lvl 2 is the earliest time you can all-in someone and at that point it all depends on who you're playing with what runes you want.
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If you're going all in level 1, just get AD lol
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Yeah you can do it on Fizz. I've been trying it on Kayle for giggles.
29/0/1 with a full flat AP page, opening Dorans + 2 HP pots. With E Kayle's level 1 autos do 60 AD + 42.5 AP damage.
But not sure if armor or flat HP is better for Seals for the cheeserunepage.
I think you could probably do it on Annie too, but with her you'd want AD runes.
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Fizz's level 2 all-in was with a red elixir and 30/0/0 masteries.
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I've been thinking a bit about what items you'd get on Aatrox. So far, this is what I think makes the most sense:
BotRK: Probably the first completed item you want to have. The life steal is good, and the active helps you with the transition from early to mid game.
Bloodthirster: Another item to help support with sustain.
Last Whisper: Self explanitory.
Frozen Mallet: more HP, plus a slow will help in teamfights.
Zerker Greaves, Ninja Tabi, Mercury's Treads: Greaves for going balls deep in lane, Tabi for heavy AD teams, Treads for heavy AP teams.
Zephyr: Attack speed increase helps, as does the passive.
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For aatrox i'd try 1-2 dblades bruta and BotRK as core. After that i'd aim for tankiness since he's melee.
Edit: Just played top lane as Cho vs Kennen and I started Dshield + pot with reduced damage from champion autos in the defense tree. Kennen started D-blade and it was like he wasn't in the lane.
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BotRK, Hydra/BT (idk his scaling), LW, mallet, boots are variable, and SV for the mega heals with passive and lifesteal. Just have to hope their AD sucks.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Guys, the schoolyear is over for me which means 2 things
1. AWESOME
2. I actually have a fuckton of time to stream so next week I'll stream some games with english commentary
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On June 15 2013 05:26 Ketara wrote:
Yeah you can do it on Fizz. I've been trying it on Kayle for giggles.
29/0/1 with a full flat AP page, opening Dorans + 2 HP pots. With E Kayle's level 1 autos do 60 AD + 42.5 AP damage.
But not sure if armor or flat HP is better for Seals for the cheeserunepage.
I think you could probably do it on Annie too, but with her you'd want AD runes.
Can't you just do a blue pot start for that? You get 2 extra potions and a ward +more AP right?
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France45622 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:55 beefhamburger wrote:
BotRK, Hydra/BT (idk his scaling), LW, mallet, boots are variable, and SV for the mega heals with passive and lifesteal. Just have to hope their AD sucks.
Pretty bad scaling, 0.6 bonus AD on Q and E, none on ult, and you need 160/200 bonus AD to match up the heal/damage parts on his W at max level. Q gives you a knock-up and E a slow though, so you're better off building AS, some MS, then tankiness and wreck people with W (BotRK gives AS, a on-hit effect to scale with it, sustain, and an active to burst, heal, and stick to people, and some AD on top of that so you still deal some damage every auto).
^
Second, being modal (stance-based) means you're balancing damage output and sustain. When compared to say Irelia or Vlad, this is not true - you're doing it all at the same time and never opening windows of opportunity or weakness.
Hint: Irelia actually has a cooldown on W. She sustains a bit all the time, but with a weaker sustain now, and when she activates it she creates a later window of weakness where you can abuse the significant W cooldown to outtrade her. Aatrox doesn't have that issue because he can switch stances at all times.
That is not to say that Irelia can't sustain at all times, but she isn't as strong or flexible as Aatrox when it comes to heal/damage (not even talking about the huge base numbers on Aatrox).
Can't tell about Vlad because I don't play him.
So if we got rid of Irelia's mana costs and made her abilities cost health, could we buff her?
- And made her squishy and not have CC and CC reduction and a ranged ult and...
Yeah, so Aatrox is squishy and doesn't have cc nor range on his skills and especially u- wait.
Zac's damage is in line with other tanks.
With post-rework pre-nerf Sej, yeah, maybe. With Amumu? With pre-gutting Nautilus? With Maokai? With Rammus? Yeah, yeah. Sure.
Xin, Irelia or Jax - characters who have every type of stat and power we could ever use.
Kha'Zix annoying because he can poke. Where's Xin/Irelia/Jax range/poke/whatever ability to poke that doesn't make you commit (all-in, even, in Xin's case)? Where's Jax sustain?
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What part do you disagree with?
I'm actually rather satisfied with why he thinks Aatarox's W is less of a problem then Irelia's W (besides the true damage), and his comments on the other parts of Aatarox's design (namely, steroid ultimate and non-kit-cohesive Q+E) being the main concerns. I don't necessarily agree, but I understand.
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IMO: Aatarox is not OP. If anything he's UP because of how hard he falls off late game. His lvl 3-6 ganks are pretty insane though.
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On June 15 2013 06:40 Phunkapotamus wrote:
IMO: Aatarox is not OP. If anything he's UP because of how hard he falls off late game. His lvl 3-6 ganks are pretty insane though.
His op/up-ness is irrelevant to the terrible design of the champion.
For instance. Heimer is terrible. He is also terribly designed. Release Graves was OP, but still well designed.
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On June 15 2013 06:44 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 06:40 Phunkapotamus wrote:
IMO: Aatarox is not OP. If anything he's UP because of how hard he falls off late game. His lvl 3-6 ganks are pretty insane though. His op/up-ness is irrelevant to the terrible design of the champion. For instance. Heimer is terrible. He is also terribly designed. Release Graves was OP, but still well designed.
Heimer is a really cool champ, just not really viable because he has 1970's mana costs, is super squishy and has no escapes. (IMO)
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yeah, heimer was like prenerf mordekaiser...set up in his lane and push all the way to the nexus.
But they changed him a lot and now he just has this funny kit that doesnt do anything except being annoying in aram games.
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It's still early for me to tell but I don't think Atrox is really that strong, he's not bad, but he's not qq worthy. I agree in that his kit is so well rounded it's sorta silly, buy beyond that I don't get all the complaining.
Zac on the other hand is still OP imo, the problem is that Morello (I assume) looks at his base damage and goes "hm, similar to other tanks" but the reality is, Zac has such an easy time getting to the back line, sticking to them, and surviving while doing so that he's almost always able to hit people without resistances, and in the situation where he actually has to hit a tank the % hp modifier allows him to wear them down over time. I think the idea here is he wears them down over time while the opposing DPS go to town on Zac but in reality he's pretty much unpeelable.
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Show nested quote +Originally Posted by StonedSamurai
Irelia looks broken on paper but if you actually see her play, or look at the end game stats, you'd realize that your opinion about her is 100% wrong, at least in this meta.
Do you know what irelia doesn't have?
1. Reliable CC. Her E is unreliable and the stun applies at the end of the cast animation meaning it's avoidable..
2. Scaling: Build AD on her and see what happens. If you win a game because you built AD, you were either completely fed from the beginning or your team carried you. I've lost games because I built damage items on irelia instead of going for another tank item.
3. Poke: Unless you want to use your ult for damage less than what 1 jayce Q does.
4. Wave clear: You either use half your mana or blow your ult to wave clear.
Morello, I think I'm one of the top Irelia players on NA. I've played a couple hundred games of her this season and my highest elo was diamond I. I've followed your posts on Irelia and I can't help but feel the stuff you say reflect that you have little idea on how she works as a champion in season 2-3. Her skills on paper =/= what happens in game. Morello: The problem is you guys are only validating that it was good to nerf her, she's not overpowered. When you give a champion a ton of unrelated mechanics that provide low-decision making and invisible power, it's hard for that champion to be satisfying and balanced. Additionally, the only thing she (and some other metabruisers) bring is "I'm stronger than other people." When that's true, the dominate and push out other options. When false, they're not usable. Aatrox's difference is he makes decisions about health management, and has pacing that allows for moments of strength/weakness.
Morello makes me really, really sad sometimes. Some of the highest sustain with relatively low health costs is "interesting" while low sustain, generally leveled first at 3, is broken.
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On June 15 2013 06:48 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 06:44 cLutZ wrote:On June 15 2013 06:40 Phunkapotamus wrote:
IMO: Aatarox is not OP. If anything he's UP because of how hard he falls off late game. His lvl 3-6 ganks are pretty insane though. His op/up-ness is irrelevant to the terrible design of the champion. For instance. Heimer is terrible. He is also terribly designed. Release Graves was OP, but still well designed. Heimer is a really cool champ, just not really viable because he has 1970's mana costs, is super squishy and has no escapes. (IMO)
+ 2/3 of his spells are not targetable. + Most of his DPS can be killed for minimal cost. + That actually gives the opponent extra gold!
The turrets are bad design because they are either much too hard to kill, or much too easy. Maybe you could scale their defenses with Heimer's levels/defenses (but thats a problem cus he doesn't build that much) or maybe his AP (probably makes him too snowbally). Too blade-edge to balance imo. Either OP or UP based on like .1 of a ratio, 1 earlygame kill/death, etc.
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EPT
