|
Interested in helping start an on-topic, serious League discussion thread? PM Neo to talk about how to get started. |
On July 02 2013 11:16 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 11:13 nafta wrote:On July 02 2013 11:10 wei2coolman wrote:On July 02 2013 10:31 nafta wrote:
Why not nerf all adc base stats?That would make the support actually necessary since atm most ad-s can easily 1v1 and win a lot of matchups. Yes; because S3 adc's do too much dmg; amirite? Erm they do a lot yes?Don't understand. Remember at the beginning of Season 3 when Doublelift was bitching about ADCs not doing enough damage? I think he was referring to people who had that mindset.
Well I actually wanted them to have very weak pre6 and just start getting more stats per level later(like double per lvl stats after 6).That way bruisers could potentially 1v2 or just force support to stay there 24/7 and unable to go help jungler so 2v1-s wouldn't create so much pressure for free.Should've been more clear.
Ad/supp has already proven to be the best so either embrace it or make drastic changes to the game if you want something different.
|
Honestly, AD Carries raw damage is not an issue. The only issue is the ability to do small increments of damage safely (or being Draven). They have strong laning phases if they can't be all-inned because they never take minion aggro (perhaps the ranged minion aggro distance should be changed) and can take towers in this same manner.
But they don't really do good damage, they do SAFE damage, until the fact that they are so safe means they can build a bunch of damage items. The real solution would be to force every ranged champ to have a Tristana-Passive-Like-Feature which makes them less safe early. Because if you nerf ADC early game damage, if we happen to see a 2v2 lane it will just be really REALLY boring.
|
On July 02 2013 11:06 Ketara wrote:
Just did my first top lane against Tryndamere.
Holy SHIT was that a stupid experience. Cooldown on his ult is way WAY too low.
I was going to ask if you were Yorick because that would forfeit any right to complaining, but I see that you weren't. 
|
On July 02 2013 11:34 zer0das wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 11:06 Ketara wrote:
Just did my first top lane against Tryndamere.
Holy SHIT was that a stupid experience. Cooldown on his ult is way WAY too low. I was going to ask if you were Yorick because that would forfeit any right to complaining, but I see that you weren't.
Literally I did this really sweet dive and got an ignite on him under his tower for a kill, we both backed and bought brutalizers, and then when we came back to lane his ult was already up again, mine wasn't, and he walked over me like I was a minion and then took my tower from 100% to 0.
I am completely dumbfounded. How the fuck is that champion in the game.
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:47 Dusty wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 10:17 Scip wrote:
large part of guys worth farming up THAT much are at least partially splitpushers by nature (Tryndamere, formerly Zed), What's wrong with Zed? he's still good at splitpushing/assassinating.
He's not as rape-y as he used to be. Back then you'd just absolutely destroy people before they got Zhonyas or even after they got Zhonyas/before they got 2nd item. His damage is not that beast ever since his spin has 33% longer cooldown. He's not bad but I wouldn't consider him the best splitpusher.
^^^^ Clearly a problem with the champion when you didn't take his ultimate cooldown into account o.o
|
On July 02 2013 11:16 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 11:13 nafta wrote:On July 02 2013 11:10 wei2coolman wrote:On July 02 2013 10:31 nafta wrote:
Why not nerf all adc base stats?That would make the support actually necessary since atm most ad-s can easily 1v1 and win a lot of matchups. Yes; because S3 adc's do too much dmg; amirite? Erm they do a lot yes?Don't understand. Remember at the beginning of Season 3 when Doublelift was bitching about ADCs not doing enough damage? I think he was referring to people who had that mindset.
I'm fairly certain DL wasn't kdding when he said that ADC would eventually be completely replaced as a role. If that were to happen then maybe he could actually be the best adc in the world.
|
Adc isn't going away any time soon lol.Most stuff dlift says are just stupid/wrong lol.
|
DL wasn't wrong when he made that statement. He was more speaking in comparison to end of S2 adc damage, and in that perspective yes adcs do less damage. Beginning of S3 playing ad was pretty terrible with old wardens and warmogs
|
No he was wrong for the simple reason that ad+supp beats anything else 2v2 easily and ad-s are generally the best tower siegers.Riot nerfed everything very fast even though ad wasn't in that bad of a spot honestly.Talon/pant were like the only legit problems.I guess ad assassins as well in general but those 2 were the scariest.
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
You can replace the sieging lategame with a ranged AP caster, it works just as well. So that's a completely non-unique ability of SOME ADCs (stuff like Vayne is terrible for sieging despite being an AD carry) but yeah, AD carries are pretty strong ovrall.
|
Well of course.It's not a coincidence that caitlyn all of a sudden appeared since that is all she is good at other than winning lane ^^.
edit:Tsm arguing again on oddone stream  .
|
ADCs in S3 lost lots of damage in IE and PD. Vamp scepter was also increased in price.
It was a bad time to be an ADC and I have bad memories of Xins that would constantly instagib me.
It felt like the game became more fun sized as damage items gave less damage and armor and mr items cost more and gave less armor.
I feel like even if ADC damage got nerfed for the early game the tower issue would still persist. It's not like a nerf from 45 to 35 base damage will make the tower stay up. I've lost towers in S2 as Kayle vs Nunu Cait pretty early. 1v2s are just inherently a bad scenario that you can't do much against and 2 people will always be stronger than one in the early game.
The only clean fix I can think of at the moment would be to remove a player from each team so the game is 4v4.
Alternatively you could artifically make the game reward roaming more.
Or reward people who have to lane 1v2 by making minions stronger/smarter or giving them bonus armor/mr or something. But these are both very artificial.
|
3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
Honestly I don't feel that 1v2 is a problem with the game that Riot has to fix, if they do fix it I feel that the entirety of the game would change dramatically
They should be patient and see how the meta-game fixes itself, I'm sure people two years ago complained about the 1-1-2 set meta as well, and now laneswaps have evolved from those times and changed the way the game was played. Sure, the changes that Riot implemented in the game have helped towards that evolution, but imo those changes weren't anything drastic and have helped the game become more vibrant imo
|
On July 02 2013 11:11 NeoIllusions wrote:
I'd just like to share that Fizz is a lot of fun and he's pretty gud against a number of AD Mids (as long as you know how to trollstick when they start to aggro). But holy shit, I cannot Chum for my life. 2/10 np.
That is all.
I dunno what is harder to hit; Varus ulti; or Fizz ulti.
|
By the way, how is Morello Silver IV? And how have people not just taken him to task for this. Like, if I were Riot Brass I would make him change his name immediately. No wonder he thinks Irelia and Jax are problem champions, then greenlights Aatrox.
|
On July 02 2013 12:00 nafta wrote:
No he was wrong for the simple reason that ad+supp beats anything else 2v2 easily and ad-s are generally the best tower siegers.Riot nerfed everything very fast even though ad wasn't in that bad of a spot honestly.Talon/pant were like the only legit problems.I guess ad assassins as well in general but those 2 were the scariest.
Double bruiser beats ad+support in lane. But AD+support playing passive lane; and only lose slightly will be much more useful later on in the game. Problem is outside of laning phase; dual bruisers have no real sieging capabilities; other than going balls deep.
Also; s3 adc's still do very little dmg compared to s2 counterparts. Especially with all these genja-eu builds that have been coming out. Especially of recent; now adc's are more so used as burst casters that can also put out auto attack damage (weixiaos varus build last night).
On July 02 2013 12:44 cLutZ wrote:
By the way, how is Morello Silver IV? And how have people not just taken him to task for this. Like, if I were Riot Brass I would make him change his name immediately. No wonder he thinks Irelia and Jax are problem champions, then greenlights Aatrox.
It has nothing to do with Morello being Silver IV; and more so that his idea about game designs are embarrassingly bad.
|
They don't win lane wtf.You can just freeze or force them to dive you under turret.All you have to do is pick something strong not soraka/ashe.
|
United States23745 Posts
On July 02 2013 12:45 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 12:00 nafta wrote:
No he was wrong for the simple reason that ad+supp beats anything else 2v2 easily and ad-s are generally the best tower siegers.Riot nerfed everything very fast even though ad wasn't in that bad of a spot honestly.Talon/pant were like the only legit problems.I guess ad assassins as well in general but those 2 were the scariest. Double bruiser beats ad+support in lane. But AD+support playing passive lane; and only lose slightly will be much more useful later on in the game. Problem is outside of laning phase; dual bruisers have no real sieging capabilities; other than going balls deep. Also; s3 adc's still do very little dmg compared to s2 counterparts. Especially with all these genja-eu builds that have been coming out. Especially of recent; now adc's are more so used as burst casters that can also put out auto attack damage (weixiaos varus build last night). Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 12:44 cLutZ wrote:
By the way, how is Morello Silver IV? And how have people not just taken him to task for this. Like, if I were Riot Brass I would make him change his name immediately. No wonder he thinks Irelia and Jax are problem champions, then greenlights Aatrox. It has nothing to do with Morello being Silver IV; and more so that his idea about game designs are embarrassingly bad.
I mean there is a whole balance team at Riot, Morello isn't making all of these decisions on his own. He just gets the most shit since he's the public face of balance and responds to a lot of posts Everyone gives him shit, but his opinion are just in line with the rest Riot's balance philosophy. Whether or not you agree with that is a completely different matter.
|
On July 02 2013 11:11 NeoIllusions wrote:
I'd just like to share that Fizz is a lot of fun and he's pretty gud against a number of AD Mids (as long as you know how to trollstick when they start to aggro). But holy shit, I cannot Chum for my life. 2/10 np.
That is all.
Fizz is a stupid champion, but he isn't exactly easy. His damage early is ridiculous in conjunction with being able to dodge even a full combo from a lot of champions. Playing Jayce vs fizz can be pretty hard early, thankfully jayce is a silly champion who gets a tear and a longsword and can freefarm. Wukong was probably the most reliable ad mid that I played vs fizz, his level 2 is stupidly strong.
|
On July 02 2013 12:52 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 12:45 wei2coolman wrote:On July 02 2013 12:00 nafta wrote:
No he was wrong for the simple reason that ad+supp beats anything else 2v2 easily and ad-s are generally the best tower siegers.Riot nerfed everything very fast even though ad wasn't in that bad of a spot honestly.Talon/pant were like the only legit problems.I guess ad assassins as well in general but those 2 were the scariest. Double bruiser beats ad+support in lane. But AD+support playing passive lane; and only lose slightly will be much more useful later on in the game. Problem is outside of laning phase; dual bruisers have no real sieging capabilities; other than going balls deep. Also; s3 adc's still do very little dmg compared to s2 counterparts. Especially with all these genja-eu builds that have been coming out. Especially of recent; now adc's are more so used as burst casters that can also put out auto attack damage (weixiaos varus build last night). On July 02 2013 12:44 cLutZ wrote:
By the way, how is Morello Silver IV? And how have people not just taken him to task for this. Like, if I were Riot Brass I would make him change his name immediately. No wonder he thinks Irelia and Jax are problem champions, then greenlights Aatrox. It has nothing to do with Morello being Silver IV; and more so that his idea about game designs are embarrassingly bad. I mean there is a whole balance team at Riot, Morello isn't making all of these decisions on his own. He just gets the most shit since he's the public face of balance and responds to a lot of posts Everyone gives him shit, but his opinion are just in line with the rest Riot's balance philosophy. Whether or not you agree with that is a completely different matter.
Well yeah; Riot's balance philosophy makes me cry in my sleep.
I still like how the 2v1 meta is coming out; before 2v1 used to be used just to shut down a solo laner; then it evolved into using to safely farm up a hyper carry; then now its being used for 3-4 minute tower timings; along with strong buff control with roaming support. I think there's still more room for innovation with 2v1 strats.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
