EPTJungle Darius is my man, he does everything. I feel like I could build 3 warmogs and still do scary damage, plus you can pull entire camps over walls to steal or speed up clears.
[Patch 3.08: Aatrox Patch] General Discussion - Page 281
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
Jungle Darius is my man, he does everything. I feel like I could build 3 warmogs and still do scary damage, plus you can pull entire camps over walls to steal or speed up clears. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 02 2013 09:37 caelym wrote: 1. Change tower AI to Dota's tower AI. This makes it harder for 1v2s to chip down a tower. You'd have to change the creep AI accordingly otherwise this change is meaningless. As is, creeps auto-aggro to the tower anyway, and in DotA, the tower prioritizes units that are attacking the tower. This could also have a lot of unintended consequences making games longer because high ground pushes would be more difficult. On July 02 2013 09:37 caelym wrote: 2. Put the ADC alone in the hard lane and lane the melee fighter with a support. This makes up for certain melee champs' weaknesses in bad 1v1 and 1v2 matchups. Another strategy taken from Dota. The problem is that if the other team puts their AD+support together and look for the 2v2, you will lose the 2v2. This is why Support+Melee lanes and ADC solos died in the first place. | ||
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caelym
United States6430 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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Ethelis
United States2400 Posts
On July 02 2013 09:52 nafta wrote: Yeah but unless they win your melees being lower level is going to make teamfights harder. But (in theory/match-up dependent) you're guaranteeing more gold than the current 1v2 top laner. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On July 02 2013 09:54 xMiragex wrote: But (in theory/match-up dependent) you're guaranteeing more gold than the current 1v2 top laner. That is the whole 2v1 issue. Its basically a fog of war gamble in certain situations. Sure, I can get lucky and get the Pantheon/Taric lane vs. Sona+Cait, but if you get the Cho'Gath, and the jungle nasus just spirit fires your first minion push, GG. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The XP bonus for splitting XP two ways is pretty big (two or more champs splitting XP on lane creeps gets 30% more total XP than a solo). If an off-laner is missing XP on 1/3 of the creeps (perfectly realistic in 1v2s in pro play), they're actually getting less XP than if they were in a 2v2 and getting XP on every creep. | ||
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caelym
United States6430 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
It's probably fine, just really sensitive to draft. I don't think it's that easy to find a melee that wins 2v2s AND is worth freefarming at the cost of having your AD in a 1v2. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
On July 02 2013 09:23 caelym wrote: I think Riot is trying to enforce the sanctity of the laning phase because too many champions were designed under the assumption of standard laning and meta. They shouldn't punish the creativity that comes from competition because it breaks the artificial design molds they put in place. Basically invalidating lane phase does narrow the design space heavily, though, and doesn't open it up too much. The 2v1 basically requires every melee to have a ranged cs mechanic or be played strictly in the jungle. Right now pure melees are strictly worse picks for competitive solo lanes because they are abused too easily by AD+Support. I can't believe I agree with a Hashinshin general forum post, but I do. EDIT: On July 02 2013 09:57 TheYango wrote: You also probably get more XP than a 1v2 as well, honestly. The XP bonus for splitting XP two ways is pretty big (two or more champs splitting XP on lane creeps gets 30% more total XP than a solo). If an off-laner is missing XP on 1/3 of the creeps (perfectly realistic in 1v2s in pro play), they're actually getting less XP than if they were in a 2v2 and getting XP on every creep. I also think it's 1/4, so even worse. | ||
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Capricious_LoL
United States222 Posts
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caelym
United States6430 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:00 Scip wrote: Whats the point of having like sona+jarvan when you could have like leona graves instead Say you really really wanted to run jarvan in the team, he'd be shat on less with sona in his lane as opposed to solo vs 2. Meanwhile your graves solo can wave clear and hold his ground. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:00 upperbound wrote: Basically invalidating lane phase does narrow the design space heavily, though, and doesn't open it up too much. The 2v1 basically requires every melee to have a ranged cs mechanic or be played strictly in the jungle. Right now pure melees are strictly worse picks for competitive solo lanes because they are abused too easily by AD+Support. I can't believe I agree with a Hashinshin general forum post, but I do. Or have the ability to leave the lane and influence the game at level 1-2. It's just that Riot his multiple times killed the possibility of champs being able to do this. On July 02 2013 10:00 upperbound wrote: I also think it's 1/4, so even worse. It used to be 1/4, it got buffed. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:02 caelym wrote: Say you really really wanted to run jarvan in the team, he'd be shat on less with sona in his lane as opposed to solo vs 2. Meanwhile your graves solo can wave clear and hold his ground. Why would I want to run jarvan on my team when Leona can do the same thing in lane and later on in the game without requiring any farm whatsoever it just doesnt make any sense guys, are you proposing going 1v2 while having the FARMING champion of the 2 melee? That just doesn't make any sense. AD carry 1v2 is just nonsensical when you can have AD carry mid and a mage (lissandra, kennen) 1v2 instead, wtf guys | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
So many ad-s can win 1v1-s easily which is stupid since they are supposed to be late-game carries. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 02 2013 10:03 Scip wrote: it just doesnt make any sense guys, are you proposing going 1v2 while having the FARMING champion of the 2 melee? That's the thing, I can't think of any melees that are both strong enough to conceivably win 2v2s as well as be worth freefarming in comparison to a ranged carry. The number of melees in the game that are worth farming up that hard is actually fairly small in the first place, and of those I don't think any of them are viable 2v2 laners. Something like Poppy, for example, absolutely takes over the game if freefarmed, but I can't conceivably see a Poppy+X duo ever beating most reasonably strong AD+support duos. | ||
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