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On July 02 2013 10:03 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 10:02 caelym wrote:On July 02 2013 10:00 Scip wrote:
Whats the point of having like sona+jarvan when you could have like leona graves instead Say you really really wanted to run jarvan in the team, he'd be shat on less with sona in his lane as opposed to solo vs 2. Meanwhile your graves solo can wave clear and hold his ground. Why would I want to run jarvan on my team when Leona can do the same thing in lane and later on in the game without requiring any farm whatsoever it just doesnt make any sense guys, are you proposing going 1v2 while having the FARMING champion of the 2 melee? That just doesn't make any sense. AD carry 1v2 is just nonsensical when you can have AD carry mid and a mage (lissandra, kennen) 1v2 instead, wtf guys
I only used that example to because you used it first. A more realistic example would be to have a hard carry like jax or fiora being babysat by a support while have the threat to allin if the lane opponent gets too cutesy with harass.
The entire reason I brought up this idea is because people say there's a problem with melee champions in the game right now, and I proposed a possible way where melees can still be impactful. It's always easier to point out flaws with theorycraft than to prove its efficacy but I haven't thought it through enough or tested it to provide adequate defense (and the idea could be complete junk for all I care). I just think people should be more open minded about how certain things are done in the game before going to Riot and crying for help.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
large part of guys worth farming up THAT much are at least partially splitpushers by nature (Tryndamere, formerly Zed), which is way less awkward if they start in solo lane for obvious reasons.
The other strong melee's worth farming up (Kha'zix, Yi, Kat and other melee casters) simply work way better from middle lane. And since AD carries work better from duo lane, there is no incentive to do this kind of thing.
Both Jax and to a lesser extent Fiora can get close to free farm in a solo lane even in a laneswap after the first towers go down
why would I even want a free farm Jax THAT much, if it makes me so vulnarable to ganks and laneswaps. It's not like he can destroy teamfights hardcore like Yi or splitpush into the enemy base like Tryndamere. He's not useless, but not worth making many sacrifices for.
I am not opposed to theorycrafting, in general I am a big fan but somehow I am unable to see how this idea makes any sense whatsoever. Maybe it's my reading skillz.
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United States47024 Posts
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And the thing to take away from this discussion is that a character with ranged attacks will always be safer when they have a bodyguard, whether it's a supporting character or a tower, than a melee character will.
Pretty hard to get around that.
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Why not nerf all adc base stats?That would make the support actually necessary since atm most ad-s can easily 1v1 and win a lot of matchups.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
The only melee champion whose farm has that much worth and doesn't work better in middle/solo lane is Poppy
then again somehow I don't think you could make poppy work very well in duo lane either
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Looking at this thread makes me wonder why riot even reply.If I actually read more than 3 comments I'd probably find whines about every single champ lol.
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On July 02 2013 10:31 nafta wrote:
Why not nerf all adc base stats?That would make the support actually necessary since atm most ad-s can easily 1v1 and win a lot of matchups.
Because they want ADC to actually be viable in any lane so that the game doesn't fall in a stagnant and boring meta.
If 2v1 ranged lanes are too strong vs all melee laners then perhaps that's an inherent problem with the game. It also sucks as anyone in a 1v2 lane. It's not like Olaf's axes ever get strong enough to weaken a creep to the point where a tower needs 1 shot to kill it anyways.
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On July 02 2013 10:17 Scip wrote:
large part of guys worth farming up THAT much are at least partially splitpushers by nature (Tryndamere, formerly Zed),
What's wrong with Zed? he's still good at splitpushing/assassinating.
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Overall melee/ranged champions balance is very difficult in LoL due to the existence of movement skills on most champs and the lack of attack/turn animations. This allows almost any ranged champ to kite melee champs in combat situations, and when combined with the front-loaded nature of damage in LoL, means that its difficult to balance to two.
Since effective kiting in LoL is not such a basic skill that all players are able to accomplish, the "bottom-up" nature of LoL balance would advise heavily against making melee champions significantly stronger than ranged ones in straight up fighting, as that would heavily influence and tilt the lower levels of play in which ADCs do not have the skill to properly leverage the advantage of being ranged. This causes a disconnect in higher level games where Ranged DPS is significantly better than melee DPS in most situations while in lower level games often the opposite is the case without kiting and good positioning/formation.
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Just did my first top lane against Tryndamere.
Holy SHIT was that a stupid experience. Cooldown on his ult is way WAY too low.
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On July 02 2013 10:31 nafta wrote:
Why not nerf all adc base stats?That would make the support actually necessary since atm most ad-s can easily 1v1 and win a lot of matchups.
Yes; because S3 adc's do too much dmg; amirite?
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United States37500 Posts
I'd just like to share that Fizz is a lot of fun and he's pretty gud against a number of AD Mids (as long as you know how to trollstick when they start to aggro). But holy shit, I cannot Chum for my life. 2/10 np.
That is all.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On July 02 2013 11:11 NeoIllusions wrote:
I'd just like to share that Fizz is a lot of fun and he's pretty gud against a number of AD Mids (as long as you know how to trollstick when they start to aggro). But holy shit, I cannot Chum for my life. 2/10 np.
That is all.
Feeders can't hit skillshots though. It's against the policy.
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United States37500 Posts
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On July 02 2013 11:10 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 10:31 nafta wrote:
Why not nerf all adc base stats?That would make the support actually necessary since atm most ad-s can easily 1v1 and win a lot of matchups. Yes; because S3 adc's do too much dmg; amirite?
Erm they do a lot yes?Don't understand.
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United States23745 Posts
On July 02 2013 11:13 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 11:10 wei2coolman wrote:On July 02 2013 10:31 nafta wrote:
Why not nerf all adc base stats?That would make the support actually necessary since atm most ad-s can easily 1v1 and win a lot of matchups. Yes; because S3 adc's do too much dmg; amirite? Erm they do a lot yes?Don't understand.
Remember at the beginning of Season 3 when Doublelift was bitching about ADCs not doing enough damage?
I think he was referring to people who had that mindset.
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EPT
