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On June 30 2013 22:22 cascades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:03 Letmelose wrote:On June 30 2013 21:15 cascades wrote:On June 30 2013 19:59 Letmelose wrote:On June 30 2013 19:40 cascades wrote:
Letmelose:
1) The bottom half of the table is absolutely terrible, and its what gives people the impression about the region.
2) The top 3/4 GPL teams can give other teams a run for their money on their best. The problem is that they aren't that great anyway. SAJ narrowly beating NA at s2, the weakest region, as a top 3 team in GPL
3) However, since TPA used to shit on all of them, they got lumped together. That and I guess the NA desperately needed to laugh at someone.
TL:DR The "Better teams" in the GPL aren't completely terrible, but they are not strong either. 1) Couldn't that be said for a lot of the other regions as well? Take the LPL Spring Season for example, did anyone really think Wayi Spider China was a decent team? GPL as a competition does suffer from stagnation more than the other competitions from other regions due to their format, but who's to say that there aren't good up-and-coming teams in the region? I don't think lack of competion explains everything. Teams in the GPL weren't the only contacts TPA had, if anything, there was a definate rise in the number of professional Taiwanese teams after TPA's good fortunes at the international level. TPA probably played a major role in the growth of the professional LoL scene in Taiwan, it puzzles me somewhat that their form suffered so much despite there being a stronger case for the "lack of infrastructure and competition" argument during season 2. Of course, things were much worse in the other regions as well back then, but I still feel that the "lack of competition" doesn't explain everything. 2) Singapore Sentinels consistently lost to Chinese, Korean, and North American teams at international tournaments during season 2. I really didn't think much of them at all, however, a Korean guy who watched GPL frequently this year told me that they were pretty decent, suggesting perhaps around the level of a lower to mid-tier professional team in Korea and China. I personally thought otherwise, but it's really hard to argue against someone who watched more than you. Everything you say are based on a smaller pool of games, and ends up being speculations. Is it possible that they improved vastly in recent weeks? Not really, take like NA, there's 1 team at the bottom, and the rest are middle of the pack. Wayi is also the outlier in stinking things up. Same for EU. Garena has more terrible teams. Also Garena's worst is worse than them guaranteed. Nah SS were pretty "decent". They beat Curse(4th) and gave TSM(1st) a fight. I haven't watched them recently, but low tier Chinese team sounded about right. I also think they are chokers(play worse in tournies/LAN), but I will let nyx comment on that. South East Asia/Taiwan isn't limited to GPL though, and to dismiss the region as a whole when GPL isn't necessarily an accurate portrayal of the overall strength of the region, not to mention has no direct influence over which teams get to represent the region in the Season 3 World Championship as far as I'm aware of, may be a little brash considering many feel like championing that as the main reason for TPA's downfall. I just feel like GPL as a competition improved compared to last year with the inclusion of AHQ e-Sports Club, and there were a bunch of Taiwanese professional teams that sprang up although they competed in different leagues from Azubu TPA. Although Azubu TPA does not compete with them directly, surely practice against these teams must be more accessible (althought I'm making huge assumptions here)? Take Gamania for example, or Wayi Spider Taiwan. How good are these teams? Gamania managed to defeat WE Academy, and went 3-5 overall versus Xenics Storm. If season 3 birthed numerous non-GPL Taiwanese teams that may be similar in strength to some of the lower-tier Korean and Chinese professional teams, how does that help explain why Azubu Taipei Assassins' fall from grace? The argument just does not seem to cover all grounds, that's all. I am not familiar enough with TPA's fall from grace. I would say it has to do with meta changes, Toyz being a shotcaller, and new replacements not being up to scratch AND ruining synergy (aka downgrade). Dinter and Sarsky are both terrible. That's speculation on my part though, so what I have done in my posts is to help you understand GPL more. As for TeSL I shall refrain from commenting on that except TPS should have had been in GPL definitely, and maybe more TW teams. This is due to GPL's wonky structure though, so it may be that the best teams in the SEA region may not get to represent at world's. This is speculation again.
I'm not going to question you on the subject of the level of lower-tier GPL teams like Bangkok Titans, but like you've said, I feel like there's a bunch of factors working into this, and don't feel satisfied with the thought that the bad teams in GPL caused all this. Analyzing the exact manner in which Azubu TPA got to this point probably would require a lot of investigation and research. Oh Taiwanese e-Sports journalists where art thou?
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On June 30 2013 22:14 Vanka wrote:
I recall reading that TPA used to scrim korean teams, they had fully unlocked accounts on the taiwanese server that the korean teams could use for said scrims. There was also clg.eu going to china or taiwan or whatever it was and scrimming tpa a couple times right before s2 worlds.
EDIT: I'm going to make the completely and utterly speculative case that if TPA doesn't scrim korean teams anymore, that is due to the huge development of the korean scene, that they don't need to go outside korea for scrim partners anymore, and the rise of importance of the champions and NLB and the time commitments necessary for those leagues.
TPA and TPS still scrims Koreans, although to quote someone from the MVP house on it: they werent sure if TPA was taking it seriously.
Might have been internal issues, prior and after Mistake got moved to TPS. It happens to the best of teams, and they can come out stronger after such changes (although I cant think of a case with this many changes over the course of this short time). WE changed 3 members prior to S2 and did really well, SGS has been chaning in and out members constantly if memory serves lol, MVP teams have gone ring around the roses with themselves CJ entus, Startale etc to end up where MVP Ozone is today in terms of players. Then again you also have cases such as CLG 
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Doesn't sound like Stanley wanted to leave so much as was forced out and had to accept leaving.
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On June 30 2013 22:39 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:22 cascades wrote:On June 30 2013 22:03 Letmelose wrote:On June 30 2013 21:15 cascades wrote:On June 30 2013 19:59 Letmelose wrote:On June 30 2013 19:40 cascades wrote:
Letmelose:
1) The bottom half of the table is absolutely terrible, and its what gives people the impression about the region.
2) The top 3/4 GPL teams can give other teams a run for their money on their best. The problem is that they aren't that great anyway. SAJ narrowly beating NA at s2, the weakest region, as a top 3 team in GPL
3) However, since TPA used to shit on all of them, they got lumped together. That and I guess the NA desperately needed to laugh at someone.
TL:DR The "Better teams" in the GPL aren't completely terrible, but they are not strong either. 1) Couldn't that be said for a lot of the other regions as well? Take the LPL Spring Season for example, did anyone really think Wayi Spider China was a decent team? GPL as a competition does suffer from stagnation more than the other competitions from other regions due to their format, but who's to say that there aren't good up-and-coming teams in the region? I don't think lack of competion explains everything. Teams in the GPL weren't the only contacts TPA had, if anything, there was a definate rise in the number of professional Taiwanese teams after TPA's good fortunes at the international level. TPA probably played a major role in the growth of the professional LoL scene in Taiwan, it puzzles me somewhat that their form suffered so much despite there being a stronger case for the "lack of infrastructure and competition" argument during season 2. Of course, things were much worse in the other regions as well back then, but I still feel that the "lack of competition" doesn't explain everything. 2) Singapore Sentinels consistently lost to Chinese, Korean, and North American teams at international tournaments during season 2. I really didn't think much of them at all, however, a Korean guy who watched GPL frequently this year told me that they were pretty decent, suggesting perhaps around the level of a lower to mid-tier professional team in Korea and China. I personally thought otherwise, but it's really hard to argue against someone who watched more than you. Everything you say are based on a smaller pool of games, and ends up being speculations. Is it possible that they improved vastly in recent weeks? Not really, take like NA, there's 1 team at the bottom, and the rest are middle of the pack. Wayi is also the outlier in stinking things up. Same for EU. Garena has more terrible teams. Also Garena's worst is worse than them guaranteed. Nah SS were pretty "decent". They beat Curse(4th) and gave TSM(1st) a fight. I haven't watched them recently, but low tier Chinese team sounded about right. I also think they are chokers(play worse in tournies/LAN), but I will let nyx comment on that. South East Asia/Taiwan isn't limited to GPL though, and to dismiss the region as a whole when GPL isn't necessarily an accurate portrayal of the overall strength of the region, not to mention has no direct influence over which teams get to represent the region in the Season 3 World Championship as far as I'm aware of, may be a little brash considering many feel like championing that as the main reason for TPA's downfall. I just feel like GPL as a competition improved compared to last year with the inclusion of AHQ e-Sports Club, and there were a bunch of Taiwanese professional teams that sprang up although they competed in different leagues from Azubu TPA. Although Azubu TPA does not compete with them directly, surely practice against these teams must be more accessible (althought I'm making huge assumptions here)? Take Gamania for example, or Wayi Spider Taiwan. How good are these teams? Gamania managed to defeat WE Academy, and went 3-5 overall versus Xenics Storm. If season 3 birthed numerous non-GPL Taiwanese teams that may be similar in strength to some of the lower-tier Korean and Chinese professional teams, how does that help explain why Azubu Taipei Assassins' fall from grace? The argument just does not seem to cover all grounds, that's all. I am not familiar enough with TPA's fall from grace. I would say it has to do with meta changes, Toyz being a shotcaller, and new replacements not being up to scratch AND ruining synergy (aka downgrade). Dinter and Sarsky are both terrible. That's speculation on my part though, so what I have done in my posts is to help you understand GPL more. As for TeSL I shall refrain from commenting on that except TPS should have had been in GPL definitely, and maybe more TW teams. This is due to GPL's wonky structure though, so it may be that the best teams in the SEA region may not get to represent at world's. This is speculation again. I'm not going to question you on the subject of the level of lower-tier GPL teams like Bangkok Titans, but like you've said, I feel like there's a bunch of factors working into this, and don't feel satisfied with the thought that the bad teams in GPL caused all this. Analyzing the exact manner in which Azubu TPA got to this point probably would require a lot of investigation and research. Oh Taiwanese e-Sports journalists where art thou?
I don't quite agree and never did suggest lower tier GPL teams lead to their downfall. I am pretty sure it is centred around Toyz being exposed and Dinter, but whether Dinter is a symptom or a cause I don't know, and only people with connections like nyx would.
Dan HH is right that if Toyz weaknesses were exposed it is doubtful TPA would have won, but consider that TPA did their best to hide their strats. TPA was considered the best team in the world in scrims, before "mysteriously slumping." So credit should be given to TPA for actively concealing their strats. It is extremely unlikely that the likes of NA and maybe EU teams would have been able to tip TPA's hand, for those actively seeking to pin it on the GPL.
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Following the discussion,
For the NGF TPA vs OMG, I didn't think OMG took it seriously since it was only 3rd/4th match and cool even use evelynn mid,which he had never used it in LPL. And Bigpolemo were just repeatly mysteriously engaging.
AFAIK, TPA had a lot of practice with Chinese and Korean team. The news that lilballz left TPA came out from their practice partner Royal. Although TPA participate in a worse league, TPA still have a lot of practice with the team in other region.
And now Taiwanese are very unhappy about the S3 slots in Garena Region. They put 1 slot in Hong Kong-Taiwan and the other slot in SEA.
I think AHQ is pretty strong right now in their region, Wayi Spider also has a chance.
For the SEA, i think SGS will come out on top.
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I think Chinese and Taiwanese fans are pretty much the same.
I can remember when TPA lose to PE, all the post in Taiwanese forum were sarcastic and blaming TPA.
Yesterday, after WE lose to Saigon Joker, you may imagine how much pressure WE are bearing. all the thread are like
'why OMG is not the representive‘ ’worst team in China‘ ’just disband‘
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On June 30 2013 22:39 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:22 cascades wrote:On June 30 2013 22:03 Letmelose wrote:On June 30 2013 21:15 cascades wrote:On June 30 2013 19:59 Letmelose wrote:On June 30 2013 19:40 cascades wrote:
Letmelose:
1) The bottom half of the table is absolutely terrible, and its what gives people the impression about the region.
2) The top 3/4 GPL teams can give other teams a run for their money on their best. The problem is that they aren't that great anyway. SAJ narrowly beating NA at s2, the weakest region, as a top 3 team in GPL
3) However, since TPA used to shit on all of them, they got lumped together. That and I guess the NA desperately needed to laugh at someone.
TL:DR The "Better teams" in the GPL aren't completely terrible, but they are not strong either. 1) Couldn't that be said for a lot of the other regions as well? Take the LPL Spring Season for example, did anyone really think Wayi Spider China was a decent team? GPL as a competition does suffer from stagnation more than the other competitions from other regions due to their format, but who's to say that there aren't good up-and-coming teams in the region? I don't think lack of competion explains everything. Teams in the GPL weren't the only contacts TPA had, if anything, there was a definate rise in the number of professional Taiwanese teams after TPA's good fortunes at the international level. TPA probably played a major role in the growth of the professional LoL scene in Taiwan, it puzzles me somewhat that their form suffered so much despite there being a stronger case for the "lack of infrastructure and competition" argument during season 2. Of course, things were much worse in the other regions as well back then, but I still feel that the "lack of competition" doesn't explain everything. 2) Singapore Sentinels consistently lost to Chinese, Korean, and North American teams at international tournaments during season 2. I really didn't think much of them at all, however, a Korean guy who watched GPL frequently this year told me that they were pretty decent, suggesting perhaps around the level of a lower to mid-tier professional team in Korea and China. I personally thought otherwise, but it's really hard to argue against someone who watched more than you. Everything you say are based on a smaller pool of games, and ends up being speculations. Is it possible that they improved vastly in recent weeks? Not really, take like NA, there's 1 team at the bottom, and the rest are middle of the pack. Wayi is also the outlier in stinking things up. Same for EU. Garena has more terrible teams. Also Garena's worst is worse than them guaranteed. Nah SS were pretty "decent". They beat Curse(4th) and gave TSM(1st) a fight. I haven't watched them recently, but low tier Chinese team sounded about right. I also think they are chokers(play worse in tournies/LAN), but I will let nyx comment on that. South East Asia/Taiwan isn't limited to GPL though, and to dismiss the region as a whole when GPL isn't necessarily an accurate portrayal of the overall strength of the region, not to mention has no direct influence over which teams get to represent the region in the Season 3 World Championship as far as I'm aware of, may be a little brash considering many feel like championing that as the main reason for TPA's downfall. I just feel like GPL as a competition improved compared to last year with the inclusion of AHQ e-Sports Club, and there were a bunch of Taiwanese professional teams that sprang up although they competed in different leagues from Azubu TPA. Although Azubu TPA does not compete with them directly, surely practice against these teams must be more accessible (althought I'm making huge assumptions here)? Take Gamania for example, or Wayi Spider Taiwan. How good are these teams? Gamania managed to defeat WE Academy, and went 3-5 overall versus Xenics Storm. If season 3 birthed numerous non-GPL Taiwanese teams that may be similar in strength to some of the lower-tier Korean and Chinese professional teams, how does that help explain why Azubu Taipei Assassins' fall from grace? The argument just does not seem to cover all grounds, that's all. I am not familiar enough with TPA's fall from grace. I would say it has to do with meta changes, Toyz being a shotcaller, and new replacements not being up to scratch AND ruining synergy (aka downgrade). Dinter and Sarsky are both terrible. That's speculation on my part though, so what I have done in my posts is to help you understand GPL more. As for TeSL I shall refrain from commenting on that except TPS should have had been in GPL definitely, and maybe more TW teams. This is due to GPL's wonky structure though, so it may be that the best teams in the SEA region may not get to represent at world's. This is speculation again. I'm not going to question you on the subject of the level of lower-tier GPL teams like Bangkok Titans, but like you've said, I feel like there's a bunch of factors working into this, and don't feel satisfied with the thought that the bad teams in GPL caused all this. Analyzing the exact manner in which Azubu TPA got to this point probably would require a lot of investigation and research. Oh Taiwanese e-Sports journalists where art thou?
Do u know how to watch KTB vs WE tomorrow?
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On July 01 2013 00:46 niukasu1990 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 22:39 Letmelose wrote:On June 30 2013 22:22 cascades wrote:On June 30 2013 22:03 Letmelose wrote:On June 30 2013 21:15 cascades wrote:On June 30 2013 19:59 Letmelose wrote:On June 30 2013 19:40 cascades wrote:
Letmelose:
1) The bottom half of the table is absolutely terrible, and its what gives people the impression about the region.
2) The top 3/4 GPL teams can give other teams a run for their money on their best. The problem is that they aren't that great anyway. SAJ narrowly beating NA at s2, the weakest region, as a top 3 team in GPL
3) However, since TPA used to shit on all of them, they got lumped together. That and I guess the NA desperately needed to laugh at someone.
TL:DR The "Better teams" in the GPL aren't completely terrible, but they are not strong either. 1) Couldn't that be said for a lot of the other regions as well? Take the LPL Spring Season for example, did anyone really think Wayi Spider China was a decent team? GPL as a competition does suffer from stagnation more than the other competitions from other regions due to their format, but who's to say that there aren't good up-and-coming teams in the region? I don't think lack of competion explains everything. Teams in the GPL weren't the only contacts TPA had, if anything, there was a definate rise in the number of professional Taiwanese teams after TPA's good fortunes at the international level. TPA probably played a major role in the growth of the professional LoL scene in Taiwan, it puzzles me somewhat that their form suffered so much despite there being a stronger case for the "lack of infrastructure and competition" argument during season 2. Of course, things were much worse in the other regions as well back then, but I still feel that the "lack of competition" doesn't explain everything. 2) Singapore Sentinels consistently lost to Chinese, Korean, and North American teams at international tournaments during season 2. I really didn't think much of them at all, however, a Korean guy who watched GPL frequently this year told me that they were pretty decent, suggesting perhaps around the level of a lower to mid-tier professional team in Korea and China. I personally thought otherwise, but it's really hard to argue against someone who watched more than you. Everything you say are based on a smaller pool of games, and ends up being speculations. Is it possible that they improved vastly in recent weeks? Not really, take like NA, there's 1 team at the bottom, and the rest are middle of the pack. Wayi is also the outlier in stinking things up. Same for EU. Garena has more terrible teams. Also Garena's worst is worse than them guaranteed. Nah SS were pretty "decent". They beat Curse(4th) and gave TSM(1st) a fight. I haven't watched them recently, but low tier Chinese team sounded about right. I also think they are chokers(play worse in tournies/LAN), but I will let nyx comment on that. South East Asia/Taiwan isn't limited to GPL though, and to dismiss the region as a whole when GPL isn't necessarily an accurate portrayal of the overall strength of the region, not to mention has no direct influence over which teams get to represent the region in the Season 3 World Championship as far as I'm aware of, may be a little brash considering many feel like championing that as the main reason for TPA's downfall. I just feel like GPL as a competition improved compared to last year with the inclusion of AHQ e-Sports Club, and there were a bunch of Taiwanese professional teams that sprang up although they competed in different leagues from Azubu TPA. Although Azubu TPA does not compete with them directly, surely practice against these teams must be more accessible (althought I'm making huge assumptions here)? Take Gamania for example, or Wayi Spider Taiwan. How good are these teams? Gamania managed to defeat WE Academy, and went 3-5 overall versus Xenics Storm. If season 3 birthed numerous non-GPL Taiwanese teams that may be similar in strength to some of the lower-tier Korean and Chinese professional teams, how does that help explain why Azubu Taipei Assassins' fall from grace? The argument just does not seem to cover all grounds, that's all. I am not familiar enough with TPA's fall from grace. I would say it has to do with meta changes, Toyz being a shotcaller, and new replacements not being up to scratch AND ruining synergy (aka downgrade). Dinter and Sarsky are both terrible. That's speculation on my part though, so what I have done in my posts is to help you understand GPL more. As for TeSL I shall refrain from commenting on that except TPS should have had been in GPL definitely, and maybe more TW teams. This is due to GPL's wonky structure though, so it may be that the best teams in the SEA region may not get to represent at world's. This is speculation again. I'm not going to question you on the subject of the level of lower-tier GPL teams like Bangkok Titans, but like you've said, I feel like there's a bunch of factors working into this, and don't feel satisfied with the thought that the bad teams in GPL caused all this. Analyzing the exact manner in which Azubu TPA got to this point probably would require a lot of investigation and research. Oh Taiwanese e-Sports journalists where art thou? Do u know how to watch KTB vs WE tomorrow?
Ongamenet will cast the finals. I'm not sure whether a stream will be available for non-Koreans. Sorry.
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From the Ban/Pick from Asian Indoor Game, unlike EU and NA, nunu is not a favorable pick in Asia.
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On July 01 2013 00:55 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 00:46 niukasu1990 wrote:On June 30 2013 22:39 Letmelose wrote:On June 30 2013 22:22 cascades wrote:On June 30 2013 22:03 Letmelose wrote:On June 30 2013 21:15 cascades wrote:On June 30 2013 19:59 Letmelose wrote:On June 30 2013 19:40 cascades wrote:
Letmelose:
1) The bottom half of the table is absolutely terrible, and its what gives people the impression about the region.
2) The top 3/4 GPL teams can give other teams a run for their money on their best. The problem is that they aren't that great anyway. SAJ narrowly beating NA at s2, the weakest region, as a top 3 team in GPL
3) However, since TPA used to shit on all of them, they got lumped together. That and I guess the NA desperately needed to laugh at someone.
TL:DR The "Better teams" in the GPL aren't completely terrible, but they are not strong either. 1) Couldn't that be said for a lot of the other regions as well? Take the LPL Spring Season for example, did anyone really think Wayi Spider China was a decent team? GPL as a competition does suffer from stagnation more than the other competitions from other regions due to their format, but who's to say that there aren't good up-and-coming teams in the region? I don't think lack of competion explains everything. Teams in the GPL weren't the only contacts TPA had, if anything, there was a definate rise in the number of professional Taiwanese teams after TPA's good fortunes at the international level. TPA probably played a major role in the growth of the professional LoL scene in Taiwan, it puzzles me somewhat that their form suffered so much despite there being a stronger case for the "lack of infrastructure and competition" argument during season 2. Of course, things were much worse in the other regions as well back then, but I still feel that the "lack of competition" doesn't explain everything. 2) Singapore Sentinels consistently lost to Chinese, Korean, and North American teams at international tournaments during season 2. I really didn't think much of them at all, however, a Korean guy who watched GPL frequently this year told me that they were pretty decent, suggesting perhaps around the level of a lower to mid-tier professional team in Korea and China. I personally thought otherwise, but it's really hard to argue against someone who watched more than you. Everything you say are based on a smaller pool of games, and ends up being speculations. Is it possible that they improved vastly in recent weeks? Not really, take like NA, there's 1 team at the bottom, and the rest are middle of the pack. Wayi is also the outlier in stinking things up. Same for EU. Garena has more terrible teams. Also Garena's worst is worse than them guaranteed. Nah SS were pretty "decent". They beat Curse(4th) and gave TSM(1st) a fight. I haven't watched them recently, but low tier Chinese team sounded about right. I also think they are chokers(play worse in tournies/LAN), but I will let nyx comment on that. South East Asia/Taiwan isn't limited to GPL though, and to dismiss the region as a whole when GPL isn't necessarily an accurate portrayal of the overall strength of the region, not to mention has no direct influence over which teams get to represent the region in the Season 3 World Championship as far as I'm aware of, may be a little brash considering many feel like championing that as the main reason for TPA's downfall. I just feel like GPL as a competition improved compared to last year with the inclusion of AHQ e-Sports Club, and there were a bunch of Taiwanese professional teams that sprang up although they competed in different leagues from Azubu TPA. Although Azubu TPA does not compete with them directly, surely practice against these teams must be more accessible (althought I'm making huge assumptions here)? Take Gamania for example, or Wayi Spider Taiwan. How good are these teams? Gamania managed to defeat WE Academy, and went 3-5 overall versus Xenics Storm. If season 3 birthed numerous non-GPL Taiwanese teams that may be similar in strength to some of the lower-tier Korean and Chinese professional teams, how does that help explain why Azubu Taipei Assassins' fall from grace? The argument just does not seem to cover all grounds, that's all. I am not familiar enough with TPA's fall from grace. I would say it has to do with meta changes, Toyz being a shotcaller, and new replacements not being up to scratch AND ruining synergy (aka downgrade). Dinter and Sarsky are both terrible. That's speculation on my part though, so what I have done in my posts is to help you understand GPL more. As for TeSL I shall refrain from commenting on that except TPS should have had been in GPL definitely, and maybe more TW teams. This is due to GPL's wonky structure though, so it may be that the best teams in the SEA region may not get to represent at world's. This is speculation again. I'm not going to question you on the subject of the level of lower-tier GPL teams like Bangkok Titans, but like you've said, I feel like there's a bunch of factors working into this, and don't feel satisfied with the thought that the bad teams in GPL caused all this. Analyzing the exact manner in which Azubu TPA got to this point probably would require a lot of investigation and research. Oh Taiwanese e-Sports journalists where art thou? Do u know how to watch KTB vs WE tomorrow? Ongamenet will cast the finals. I'm not sure whether a stream will be available for non-Koreans. Sorry.
It seems that tomorrow is the last day Insec in the Jungle, Caomei in the top and Fzzf on support
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On July 01 2013 01:03 niukasu1990 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 00:55 Letmelose wrote:On July 01 2013 00:46 niukasu1990 wrote:On June 30 2013 22:39 Letmelose wrote:On June 30 2013 22:22 cascades wrote:On June 30 2013 22:03 Letmelose wrote:On June 30 2013 21:15 cascades wrote:On June 30 2013 19:59 Letmelose wrote:On June 30 2013 19:40 cascades wrote:
Letmelose:
1) The bottom half of the table is absolutely terrible, and its what gives people the impression about the region.
2) The top 3/4 GPL teams can give other teams a run for their money on their best. The problem is that they aren't that great anyway. SAJ narrowly beating NA at s2, the weakest region, as a top 3 team in GPL
3) However, since TPA used to shit on all of them, they got lumped together. That and I guess the NA desperately needed to laugh at someone.
TL:DR The "Better teams" in the GPL aren't completely terrible, but they are not strong either. 1) Couldn't that be said for a lot of the other regions as well? Take the LPL Spring Season for example, did anyone really think Wayi Spider China was a decent team? GPL as a competition does suffer from stagnation more than the other competitions from other regions due to their format, but who's to say that there aren't good up-and-coming teams in the region? I don't think lack of competion explains everything. Teams in the GPL weren't the only contacts TPA had, if anything, there was a definate rise in the number of professional Taiwanese teams after TPA's good fortunes at the international level. TPA probably played a major role in the growth of the professional LoL scene in Taiwan, it puzzles me somewhat that their form suffered so much despite there being a stronger case for the "lack of infrastructure and competition" argument during season 2. Of course, things were much worse in the other regions as well back then, but I still feel that the "lack of competition" doesn't explain everything. 2) Singapore Sentinels consistently lost to Chinese, Korean, and North American teams at international tournaments during season 2. I really didn't think much of them at all, however, a Korean guy who watched GPL frequently this year told me that they were pretty decent, suggesting perhaps around the level of a lower to mid-tier professional team in Korea and China. I personally thought otherwise, but it's really hard to argue against someone who watched more than you. Everything you say are based on a smaller pool of games, and ends up being speculations. Is it possible that they improved vastly in recent weeks? Not really, take like NA, there's 1 team at the bottom, and the rest are middle of the pack. Wayi is also the outlier in stinking things up. Same for EU. Garena has more terrible teams. Also Garena's worst is worse than them guaranteed. Nah SS were pretty "decent". They beat Curse(4th) and gave TSM(1st) a fight. I haven't watched them recently, but low tier Chinese team sounded about right. I also think they are chokers(play worse in tournies/LAN), but I will let nyx comment on that. South East Asia/Taiwan isn't limited to GPL though, and to dismiss the region as a whole when GPL isn't necessarily an accurate portrayal of the overall strength of the region, not to mention has no direct influence over which teams get to represent the region in the Season 3 World Championship as far as I'm aware of, may be a little brash considering many feel like championing that as the main reason for TPA's downfall. I just feel like GPL as a competition improved compared to last year with the inclusion of AHQ e-Sports Club, and there were a bunch of Taiwanese professional teams that sprang up although they competed in different leagues from Azubu TPA. Although Azubu TPA does not compete with them directly, surely practice against these teams must be more accessible (althought I'm making huge assumptions here)? Take Gamania for example, or Wayi Spider Taiwan. How good are these teams? Gamania managed to defeat WE Academy, and went 3-5 overall versus Xenics Storm. If season 3 birthed numerous non-GPL Taiwanese teams that may be similar in strength to some of the lower-tier Korean and Chinese professional teams, how does that help explain why Azubu Taipei Assassins' fall from grace? The argument just does not seem to cover all grounds, that's all. I am not familiar enough with TPA's fall from grace. I would say it has to do with meta changes, Toyz being a shotcaller, and new replacements not being up to scratch AND ruining synergy (aka downgrade). Dinter and Sarsky are both terrible. That's speculation on my part though, so what I have done in my posts is to help you understand GPL more. As for TeSL I shall refrain from commenting on that except TPS should have had been in GPL definitely, and maybe more TW teams. This is due to GPL's wonky structure though, so it may be that the best teams in the SEA region may not get to represent at world's. This is speculation again. I'm not going to question you on the subject of the level of lower-tier GPL teams like Bangkok Titans, but like you've said, I feel like there's a bunch of factors working into this, and don't feel satisfied with the thought that the bad teams in GPL caused all this. Analyzing the exact manner in which Azubu TPA got to this point probably would require a lot of investigation and research. Oh Taiwanese e-Sports journalists where art thou? Do u know how to watch KTB vs WE tomorrow? Ongamenet will cast the finals. I'm not sure whether a stream will be available for non-Koreans. Sorry. It seems that tomorrow is the last day Insec in the Jungle, Caomei in the top and Fzzf on support
Hold on what's happening to fzzf and caomei?
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On June 30 2013 20:48 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 19:34 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On June 30 2013 16:08 Neverhood wrote:On June 30 2013 16:06 qanik wrote:
Waking up to watch myself some vods of mlg.
mfw they decided to upload some random FXOpen vs Curse Academy games instead of the LCS ones. The first 2 games are already uploaded, I think the rest should be up soon as well. Can somebody pm me the link for whatever game westrice played in (or just link it here)? I heard he went the fuck off today and he's always been one of my favorite players. On topic of dblade though, it's really strong UNLESS you die and then it puts you pretty far behind, so yeah, it's a calculated risk. I feel like you can get away with it on champs like Aatrox/Riven/Panth (?) because of how it changes the lane dynamic. Your opponent has to play more carefully against you because you'll win an all-in 1v1 so it makes playing defensively and farming a lot easier. You know the only danger is being harassed down or ganked so you can play accordingly. Usually if I dblade I'm pushing the lane pretty hard so that my creeps damage them back when they harass me, making them blow potions while I farm on my passive sustain. If I make it back to fountain I'm way ahead for the next couple levels. If you push that hard on Panth, unless you've got a huge wave for you (which won't happen immediatly) or you harassed the other guy so hard he'll die if he tries to commit, any level 3 gank from the jungler is going to destroy you because of the lack of escape. Even if you don't lose much HP nor blow flash, the simple fact that the jungler can be there, waiting for you to walk past river again to jump you, will zone you and put you behind. Of course you can plan a countergank with your jungler too.
Pantheon having the highest MS in the game, you can also just back around 3 minutes, just before the gank, with the lane pushed, and come back with this much needed ward and boots. You won't lose much.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 30 2013 22:33 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 19:24 TheYango wrote:
People honestly overestimated how far "ahead" TPA was after Worlds.
The version of the game played at Worlds just happened to be the absolutely perfect version for TPA's 3-lane splitpush style. They actually haven't shown much flexibility playing anything but that style at all, it's just that in a version that's good for it, their understanding of how to play it was better than anyone else's. Now that everyone's sad because they broke up I'm gonna get shit for this but TPA was not the best team in world even then, they were just the hardest to scout. GPL was such a no-contest back then that TPA could win with any picks, without breaking a sweat and without revealing anything. If their opponents from S2WC knew that Toyz can only play 3 champions at top level, like they knew it at IPL5, I very much doubt that TPA would have won.
I don't really agree.
Consider how people picked/banned in the version that was played at Worlds. Even if people researched TPA, there's not a whole lot they could do because the champs they were picking were pretty much the same as everyone else. Trying to ban out Toyz would hurt themselves just as much as TPA because barring a few teams doing their own thing (M5 most notably), Toyz's champ pool was what every other AP in the tournament was playing anyway. TPA's style just matched the version.
At IPL5 this was a different story because the most common playstyle had already moved on to more gank-oriented AP carries like Eve and Diana. Banning out Ori/Anivia became feasible because it was no longer damaging to other teams when they had no expectation of playing those champs in the first place.
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Teams are kinda like champs. Some lend themselves to specific playstyles, some are more OP than others, and all of them suffer from balance cycles.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 01 2013 00:42 niukasu1990 wrote:
I think Chinese and Taiwanese fans are pretty much the same.
I can remember when TPA lose to PE, all the post in Taiwanese forum were sarcastic and blaming TPA.
Yesterday, after WE lose to Saigon Joker, you may imagine how much pressure WE are bearing. all the thread are like
'why OMG is not the representive‘ ’worst team in China‘ ’just disband‘
On July 01 2013 02:03 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
Teams are kinda like champs. Some lend themselves to specific playstyles, some are more OP than others, and all of them suffer from balance cycles.
People tend to overly attribute slumps/dominance to plain skill, when honestly, these playstyle differences and how they fit in line with the current version actually matter a lot more than people realize.
Particularly among the top Asian teams, practice schedules and individual skill simply don't vary that much. You're not going to see enormous gaps in skill overall among the top teams. The real apparent difference in ability often comes from comfort/familiarity with the playstyles in question in a given game.
As said, every team has certain playstyles that they are accustomed to, and are most successful playing that style. The thing is, not every playstyle is actually *good* in every version. The picks in a given version of the game tend to support a certain way of playing the game, and most teams generally have to make the choice of "do we adapt to play a style that we are not used to/not good at, or do we play our familiar style in a version where we may just get outdrafted playing that way because the champs we would use are simply not good right now?" Naturally, a team with a style that fits the version does not face this dilemma and will shine, sometimes often showing an explosive rise to the top if they were not seen as a top team before.
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TPA breaking up.
I'm gonna fucking cry. I blame Azubu for this shit (not completely rational, but they're a scammy as fuck sponsor).
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
my 2nd promotion series to challanger
fuckfuckfuckfuck I am so hyped right now
first game krepo+yellowpete with thresh in my team + I got evelynn letsee how it goes
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On June 30 2013 14:27 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 10:51 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On June 30 2013 10:29 Alzadar wrote:
I don't think we were ever at much risk of losing, although you would have won if you had Ryze. That's because you are bad LOL Let me qualify that--their Draven ulted and stole baron from cross map after we hooked 3 members of their team for picks. Our Lee didn't smite it. Our team was ezpz/me/gracken420/whatsupchan with Haltazel dc'd. The score was even for the entire game and we were about to take a baron. It was a 4v5. User was warned for this post Okay, let me apologize for this, it was out of line. It was close as hell though. Your team didn't even notice it was a 4v5 for 20 minutes. And I'm not sure if it was you that was talking shit or your team but that's why I was being oppositional towards you. It wasn't very nice of you guys to shit talk us after barely winning a 4v5.
All cool.
I don't think anyone on my team was trying to shit talk, although I guess it's easy for something to sound BM without the voice chat as context. Like I think it was Thresh who said "wow just noticed Ryze DC" at like 30 minutes, it was a lot funnier if you were also talking to him.
p.s. wasn't trying to say "omg you cheese me" kind of thing, I just didn't know what else to say other than "yo I played vs you", and talking about the MU seemed like a good choice. Which didn't happen at all because of the C word, so what do you think of that match-up (Teemo vs Aatrox )?
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On July 01 2013 02:22 Scip wrote:
my 2nd promotion series to challanger
fuckfuckfuckfuck I am so hyped right now
first game krepo+yellowpete with thresh in my team + I got evelynn letsee how it goes
zac eve thresh ryze all in the same team
what the fuck was banned
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EPT
