|
Looks like we're back to status quo. Hope more of you lurkers unburrow and talk with us. :3 If you have any issues or comments about the new design, feel free to PM Neo. |
On June 07 2013 02:27 AsnSensation wrote:
Annie noob here, max W or Q, take a point in E or wait till lvl 8?
Generally W at lvl 1 and get stun at fountain just in case you or they invade. Even if you don't use it, having that stun charge at lvl 1 allows you to posture aggressively in lane right away.
WQWEWR, R>W>Q>E
I've always had the most success with maxing W over Q. It allows heavy wave clearing fairly early on. I use Q to land a stun on opponent and then harass with a huge damage incinerate.
Sometimes I'll get E at 3 if I'm against a bruiser, but always before 6. It lets you cycle your passive really well (it's negligible mana cost, pretty short CD) and you can use it for stun mind grapes. Expecting to get ganked? Sit on 3 stacks of your passive, wait for enemies EW to stun 2 and skip away or kill them.
|
United States47024 Posts
My personal feeling has always been 3 Q by 6, then max W for a two reasons:
- Q is the stronger skill in lane, but W has more teamfight usefulness (AoE stun/damage, higher up-front burst)
- Pre-6 mana efficiency on Q is at a premium, but post-6 if you do not start upping W, you lose out on clearing power against champs that will insta-clear a wave with blue buff.
|
On June 07 2013 02:32 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 02:28 Sandster wrote:
Most Annie's generally take a point in E at 4 and max Q first. E that early hurts your burst damage a lot. I think E at somewhere from 8-10 depending on the game is more common.
i thought a second point early in annie W sucked cause you only get like 10 more damage? <====nvm this i was wrong
Q Deals 85/125/165/205/245 (+0.7) magic damage
W Deals 80/130/180/230/280 (+0.75)
in which case i could understand going Q>W>W>Q>W>R>W cause this would give you the highest burst wouldn't it?
anyways i prefer ms quints because the difference is only around 40 damage fewer than the AP quints or so at levels 6-7 which you can offset with an extra Q before you go in for the full combo
|
United States47024 Posts
Also, I think maxing E is stronger than the last 2 Q ranks. I actually think Molten Shield is strong as hell when paired with Liandry's/Rylai's and some defensive stats, and by the time you're level 12-14, your up-front burst is starting to drop off a bit anyway. You can't max it early because it hurts your midgame presence, but I think it's a waste to leave it all the way till level 18.
|
i always took E at level 4 because you can get 3 stacks on your passive, use Q, then E before it hits so you get a stun.
on the other hand i always die in my all ins.
maybe that's why.
|
On June 07 2013 02:36 TheYango wrote:
My personal feeling has always been 3 Q by 6, then max W for a two reasons:
- Q is the stronger skill in lane, but W has more teamfight usefulness (AoE stun/damage, higher up-front burst)
- Pre-6 mana efficiency on Q is at a premium, but post-6 if you do not start upping W, you lose out on clearing power against champs that will insta-clear a wave with blue buff.
I was under impression only 1 point in Q, then W max from there?
|
United States47024 Posts
W max from the get-go makes you really limited by W CDs when you trade, but Q lets you play out some extended trades by Qing twice.
|
On June 07 2013 02:37 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 02:32 TheYango wrote:On June 07 2013 02:28 Sandster wrote:
Most Annie's generally take a point in E at 4 and max Q first. E that early hurts your burst damage a lot. I think E at somewhere from 8-10 depending on the game is more common. i thought a second point early in annie W sucked cause you only get like 10 more damage? anyways i prefer ms quints because the difference is only around 40 damage fewer than the AP quints or so at levels 6-7 which you can offset with an extra Q before you go in for the full combo
It's 10 more damage if you compare it to a rank in Q. Compared to a rank in E (e.g. no damage at all unless you're against an auto-attacker), it's 50 more damage.
On June 07 2013 02:42 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 02:36 TheYango wrote:
My personal feeling has always been 3 Q by 6, then max W for a two reasons:
- Q is the stronger skill in lane, but W has more teamfight usefulness (AoE stun/damage, higher up-front burst)
- Pre-6 mana efficiency on Q is at a premium, but post-6 if you do not start upping W, you lose out on clearing power against champs that will insta-clear a wave with blue buff. I was under impression only 1 point in Q, then W max from there?
This is how you do it in ARAMs, or in a lane where there's no way you can win and your only hope is to wave clear under your tower and pray for 3+ person ults in the mid-game.
|
On June 06 2013 19:10 Jojo131 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 18:44 justiceknight wrote:On June 06 2013 17:18 cLutZ wrote:
Wow, So why is Aatrox still on the PBE? Can anyone explain to me how Riot hopes to balance this character in light of Fiora/Tryndamere?
He is not OP, just...the same. its kinda weird that this is the 1st time i have seen the LEAST number of updates on PBE patches, the new hero kinda hype up when its 1st announced and i read nothing new about buff/nerfs on the patches. Aatrox rant incoming  + Show Spoiler +Theres just something about this new champ that feels incredibly underwhelming at the moment. Not sure what's up with Riot and GA-like mechanics but this one seems like the most boring one of them all. I thought Zac was really good in terms of design with coherence to character, this guy just feels like a step down in every way. Lame character, lame design. Havent felt this way since Viktor T_T
Its not just his revive mechanic that is lame he also has other things that are just plain dumb.
1. His W is basically Hiten Style, except sometimes worse and sometimes better. Just like Irelia though, the whole kit revolves around W.
2. E is just a trash tier move. But it is just good enough to piss off Olaf players.
3. Q Is a Mini-unstoppable force that makes him nearly Kha-Zix ungankable, and quite difficult to towerdive.
4. Lamest ult in the game.
Plus he has random steroids all over the place. Its like they looked at Vlad, Irelia, Tryndamere, and Fiora and asked "What do people hate most about these champions?" and put it into 1 character.
|
On June 07 2013 02:43 TheYango wrote:
W max from the get-go makes you really limited by W CDs when you trade, but Q lets you play out some extended trades by Qing twice.
I thought the idea was to play passive farm style until level 6. Then you faceroll the all in.
|
United States47024 Posts
On June 07 2013 02:47 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 02:43 TheYango wrote:
W max from the get-go makes you really limited by W CDs when you trade, but Q lets you play out some extended trades by Qing twice. I thought the idea was to play passive farm style until level 6. Then you faceroll the all in.
Or you just Q people in the face.
|
On June 07 2013 02:47 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 02:43 TheYango wrote:
W max from the get-go makes you really limited by W CDs when you trade, but Q lets you play out some extended trades by Qing twice. I thought the idea was to play passive farm style until level 6. Then you faceroll the all in.
you can't straight up 100-0 anything without hitting them without a Q or 2 before you get to level 6
annie can put up a fair amount of pressure whenever she has a stun ready anyways so use that to try and hurt them a bit
|
On June 07 2013 02:49 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 02:47 wei2coolman wrote:On June 07 2013 02:43 TheYango wrote:
W max from the get-go makes you really limited by W CDs when you trade, but Q lets you play out some extended trades by Qing twice. I thought the idea was to play passive farm style until level 6. Then you faceroll the all in. Or you just Q people in the face.
Yeah, Annie's that do nothing in lane pre-6 are really easy to beat. It's the ones that harass you constantly that makes you worried since you always have to watch out when she has flash and ignite up, even without Tibbers.
EDIT: Against people who don't know how to lane vs Annie yeah you can 100-0 them at 6, but against everyone else they'll be extremely on guard at 6 and build hp/resists. Her strength in lane isn't just from her combo, but that fact that her super long attack range and Q harass means that the mere threat of an all-in forces her opponents to play defensively.
|
On June 07 2013 02:43 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 02:37 Frolossus wrote:On June 07 2013 02:32 TheYango wrote:On June 07 2013 02:28 Sandster wrote:
Most Annie's generally take a point in E at 4 and max Q first. E that early hurts your burst damage a lot. I think E at somewhere from 8-10 depending on the game is more common. i thought a second point early in annie W sucked cause you only get like 10 more damage? anyways i prefer ms quints because the difference is only around 40 damage fewer than the AP quints or so at levels 6-7 which you can offset with an extra Q before you go in for the full combo It's 10 more damage if you compare it to a rank in Q. Compared to a rank in E (e.g. no damage at all unless you're against an auto-attacker), it's 50 more damage. Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 02:42 wei2coolman wrote:On June 07 2013 02:36 TheYango wrote:
My personal feeling has always been 3 Q by 6, then max W for a two reasons:
- Q is the stronger skill in lane, but W has more teamfight usefulness (AoE stun/damage, higher up-front burst)
- Pre-6 mana efficiency on Q is at a premium, but post-6 if you do not start upping W, you lose out on clearing power against champs that will insta-clear a wave with blue buff. I was under impression only 1 point in Q, then W max from there? This is how you do it in ARAMs, or in a lane where there's no way you can win and your only hope is to wave clear under your tower and pray for 3+ person ults in the mid-game.
Not sure if I'm playing a completely different game than you guys...
I've always maxed W and have always had enormous success in lane. I definitely see the appeal of Q max, but W has always worked for me.
I also haven't considered E max second with liandry + rylai, that sounds super fun. But also tankier than I care to be (I already build RoA on her, so getting Rylai seems like too much defense).
|
On June 07 2013 02:49 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 02:47 wei2coolman wrote:On June 07 2013 02:43 TheYango wrote:
W max from the get-go makes you really limited by W CDs when you trade, but Q lets you play out some extended trades by Qing twice. I thought the idea was to play passive farm style until level 6. Then you faceroll the all in. you can't straight up 100-0 anything without hitting them without a Q or 2 before you get to level 6 annie can put up a fair amount of pressure whenever she has a stun ready anyways so use that to try and hurt them a bit
I thought that's why you have 600 range and you auto attack um everytime they get into your ridiculous AA range.
On June 07 2013 02:50 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 02:49 TheYango wrote:On June 07 2013 02:47 wei2coolman wrote:On June 07 2013 02:43 TheYango wrote:
W max from the get-go makes you really limited by W CDs when you trade, but Q lets you play out some extended trades by Qing twice. I thought the idea was to play passive farm style until level 6. Then you faceroll the all in. Or you just Q people in the face. Yeah, Annie's that do nothing in lane pre-6 are really easy to beat. It's the ones that harass you constantly that makes you worried since you always have to watch out when she has flash and ignite up, even without Tibbers. EDIT: Against people who don't know how to lane vs Annie yeah you can 100-0 them at 6, but against everyone else they'll be extremely on guard at 6 and build hp/resists.
You'd be surprised how few people know how to lane against burst all in casters.
|
On June 07 2013 02:51 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 02:49 Frolossus wrote:On June 07 2013 02:47 wei2coolman wrote:On June 07 2013 02:43 TheYango wrote:
W max from the get-go makes you really limited by W CDs when you trade, but Q lets you play out some extended trades by Qing twice. I thought the idea was to play passive farm style until level 6. Then you faceroll the all in. you can't straight up 100-0 anything without hitting them without a Q or 2 before you get to level 6 annie can put up a fair amount of pressure whenever she has a stun ready anyways so use that to try and hurt them a bit I thought that's why you have 600 range and you auto attack um everytime they get into your ridiculous AA range.
Even better to auto+Q. The lower health they are the more cautious they have to play in lane.
And not to sound like a dick, but you should learn how to play a champion at maximum effectiveness, and not just be able to roll scrubs that don't know how to properly lane against you.
|
I think you guys should listen to this guy on Annie: http://www.lolpro.com/guides/annie/329-annie-build-guide-mid-lane-by-damionwings/author-skins
I see so many guides where they max (Q) first and it annoy's me to no end... You should always be maxing (W) first and I'll tell you why.
You don't need to Max (Q), there is absolutely no reason to, if you max it because it's easier to last hit.. you are doing something horribly wrong. You want to last hit minions when they are very low hp, not when they are half. If you are doing it to get better Harass on Mid Lane, (W) gives you more Damage and there is no projectile (they won't see it coming). If you are using it because it has a shorter Cooldown, that is not optimal, a lvl 3 (Q) will do +40 more Damage than a lvl 2 (Q) would do (Assuming you are lvl 6). (W) at lvl 3 will do +15 MORE Damage than a lvl 3 (Q). If a lvl 3 (Q) was going to kill someone, I'm 95% sure a lvl 2 (Q) was going to kill them aswell. You are not going to get 3-4 Seconds (after you initiate) to get another (Q) off in High ELO games and if for some reason you do, either your enemy is an idiot, or you're not going to kill them. You kill people with Auto Attack not (Q). (W) gives you more single target Damage and more AoE Damage if you get Ganked. Sure it costs more Mana, but you shouldn't be losing any Mana. Using (W) is the only Mana you should be expending aside from a (Q) follow up.
Only in very few situations will you be getting your shield (E) at LvL4, for instance Against LeBlanc or for some oddball reason you might be able to kill Mid Lane and catch him off guard with a 2 Stack Stun Surprise. (Meaning you have 2 stacks and you use Molten Shield (E) then Flash into (Q)+(W) then Ignite+Auto Attacks for instagib)
|
given that you would ideally try to QRWQ them for a full combo, wouldn't Q max then do more damage then a W or what?
i'm thinking about this whole thing too much and starting to confuse the hell out of myself.
|
On June 07 2013 02:26 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 02:06 Badboyrune wrote:
well hecarum obv bad champ. bad early game bad dmg bad sustain bad ganks bad lategame only good ult. Clearly yo. Im 3/2/7 and this team is flaming the living shit out of me still. Thinking about leaving and teaching the children a harsh lesson in what happens to douchebags. Im sure the other team would enjoy the elo xD
You won't teach anyone any lesson. You'll actually only validate them: going afk will prove to them that their flaming was spot-on and you really were a jerk all along, so they'll be even more assertive and self-righteous next time around.
They don't care about elo as much as ego, and you're feeding their ego by playing along. Just mute them and play your game.
|
United States47024 Posts
On June 07 2013 02:51 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I also haven't considered E max second with liandry + rylai, that sounds super fun. But also tankier than I care to be (I already build RoA on her, so getting Rylai seems like too much defense).
One of peoples' traditional complaints with teamfighting with Annie is that engaging with her low range is awkward once you hit the point where you can't burst someone out of the fight. While the remake improved her scaling, her general power curve is still that of a burst caster early-midgame that transitions into a more supportive usefulness lategame. Because of this, I think a path of item development that gets early offensive stats to maximize her burst, and then transitions later into more defensive stats/CDR to support her teamfight control with repeated stuns seems to suit her power curve best. RoA seems to do the opposite of this because it's an item that doesn't reach it's peak offensive power until fully charged.
Liandry's fits her very well, IMO, because as an item, the Guise buildup suits a champ that needs early-level burst potential, that transitions into supplementary %-HP damage lategame when you buy Rylai's and get the Guise upgrade.
The most awkward points/questions to answer I can think of for this are:
1) What CDR sources are most suitable for Annie?
2) What burst damage AP items are strong at the 1-1.5 major item timing that Annie needs to maximize her burst damage in?
3) What defensive items are most suitable for making the transition in the level 12-14 range when Molten Shield isn't maxed yet?
You are not going to get 3-4 Seconds (after you initiate) to get another (Q) off in High ELO games and if for some reason you do, either your enemy is an idiot, or you're not going to kill them.
I think the initial scenario that I devised the 3Q->5W skill order for was vs. Kassadin, but practically speaking it applies to other champs that have similar CDs in the 8-10 second range.
Basically Kassadin effectively blocks your ability to engage with QW combos because Null Sphere has a range advantage over Disintegrate and proper animation canceling blocks your ability to combo both spells before a silence intervenes between them. If you are simply trading Q for Q or Q for W, Kassadin comes out ahead because of his passive, and the rest is him not eating too much free autoattack damage.
The low CD on Q lets you catch a 4-5 second range after any trade where you can threaten with it and they can't retaliate because their core engagement skill is still on CD.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
