On April 13 2013 20:52 Letmelose wrote: I mean, I have no idea why Riot is putting so much weight into this tournament in the first place if they're not even going to adress the nature of the competition to the voters.
Riot's goal is not to create a fair tournament it's to create a shit load of hype and something that people are going to watch. The discussions have been ongoing about how people should vote, what we should be voting for etc... and everyone has to keep going back to the site and thinking about it each day. Riot know what they're doing.
Why don't they let a bunch of half naked girls play to hype the tournament even more? Have a fan participation section where the best dressed Ahri look-a-like gets to play with the biggest names in the scene. Why don't they rig the competition so that the most popular players win in the most dramatic fashion possible? There's a certain calibre I expect from a tournament that decides the placement of a World Championship slot. This is not it.
Wow man put down that strawman, you're really not helping your own argument by arguing like that
And I think you're overexaggerating the importance of the extra region slot. The team that makes it in via that slot is not going to be one of the top teams by definition, and has low chances of actually winning or placing in the WC.
If there is no point to making sure a tournament that decides the allocation for that extra spot for the World Championship has standards, and happens to be just about the viewership, why not go all the way? There needs to be a standard that needs to be kept in competitions of any kind, or else it degenerates into a form of entertainment, not a legitimate competition. I thought this site is one of the few in the world that actually cares about the integrity of a fairly run competition. The moment the issue of seeding ended up being involved, this tournament became a legitimate competition, not a hyped up showmatch. We need to treat it as such in my opinion, and Riot clearly is not doing so.
Further more, I disagree that the decision to give a certain region an additional S3 World Championship spot can to be taken lightly. Fnatic were unable to qualify for IPL5, but with a stroke of luck were able to replace a team that were scheduled to be there, and ended up placing second. A team that fails to qualify for a certain tournament may also have the capability win it if they happen to be on a roll.
The consequences of the team that qualify for the World Championship, and the ones that don't, due to this seeding placement, cannot be taken lightly. Surely anybody who expects the players pour in the hours just for the chance to make it into the World Championship, would also expect Riot to take their responsibility of allocating these spots to the players seriously. Riot cares about the viewership, and money. I get that. It's a business. But it's also a competition, and I want to at least have the illusion of a legitimate competition going on. That's all I'm asking for.
Honestly, Riot feels just as confused about the All-Star match as you are. It feels like they have no clue whether they want it to be "serious" or not.And so they ended up somewhere in the middle, which is just bad.
It really doesn't feel like they thought this through carefully.
Really disliking the janna one tbh.Don't think you can ignore defense tree AND ar/mr runes.If you do this you have to stay behind your adc and unless it's cait vs vayne or something he will get zoned very easily.
Really disliking the janna one tbh.Don't think you can ignore defense tree AND ar/mr runes.If you do this you have to stay behind your adc and unless it's cait vs vayne or something he will get zoned very easily.
Weren't people saying AP on Janna was the strongest build a while ago? Has that fallen out of style now?
Really disliking the janna one tbh.Don't think you can ignore defense tree AND ar/mr runes.If you do this you have to stay behind your adc and unless it's cait vs vayne or something he will get zoned very easily.
This for sure. Plus she and alistar basically are the counters to blitz and thresh. They have the ability to disengage in a manner that renders their throws almost useless (or at least resets the fight). In fact, I think if Janna nado's right she can stop the pull halfway by knocking up blitz. If that doesn't work, she still gets knockups and a free disengage for the ADC. That's why blitz wasn't "OP" for so long, Janna was always around (and Sona/Soraka sustain was super strong). He's "OP" now because people stopped using Janna/Alistar so much and switched to things like Zyra, Sona, Nami, etc. which cannot disengage when caught by a grab.
Janna is more "countered" by is strong cc laners like Leona and Taric. Taric because of his strong lane phase (stun/heal) which, although she's fine, she's not quite as good (you can't run a kill lane and get your ADC super fed as easily). Leona because she can get instagibbed on the double stun (though she does have a chance at disengaging, but still that means you're fine playing quite defensively but then you're giving the lane to the other team).
You shouldn't need mana regen / level on anyone. Just put MR there and don't be a squishy instagibbed support (that's usually what loses lanes). You should be fine mana-wise, especially when you start with a mana regen item.
Zyra is fine vs Soraka, no counter either way. Her vs Leona is funny, she has an advantage early, but after Leona gets ult they can all-in the opposing ADC pretty hard. Don't know if it's really a counter though. Taric is for sure a counter, she gets busted in lane by Taric. My brother (plays only Rumble and Support Zyra, Gold I) is on a mission to find a new support just because of what his win rate vs Taric is.
Why don't you have Janna starting with a vision ward? Out of all of them, she'll need to win the bush warding war the most because if she loses the bush warding war vs Taric/Leona, her ADC can't farm at all early on.
Taric does not counter Cait for sure. If the bush is warded, she can just harass the hell out of him and he can't do anything. Even if he does manage to get a stun, she can e away to safety before it lands. So you've got an almost useless Taric in lane... not a good position for them. Cait will just keep pushing and poking that matchup, the armor aura is not enough to stop someone who gets free autos all day long. He zones out people without an escape like Ashe pretty hard.
Really disliking the janna one tbh.Don't think you can ignore defense tree AND ar/mr runes.If you do this you have to stay behind your adc and unless it's cait vs vayne or something he will get zoned very easily.
Weren't people saying AP on Janna was the strongest build a while ago? Has that fallen out of style now?
AP on Janna is much different than all GP10/Mana Regen. The latter leads you open to getting instagibbed pre-6 by Taric/Leona which is not good (or at least you give the lane away). Also Nunu will take advantage of your lack of MR and just push the both of you out of lane. It just makes you super weak all game to have those runes.
On April 13 2013 20:52 Letmelose wrote: I mean, I have no idea why Riot is putting so much weight into this tournament in the first place if they're not even going to adress the nature of the competition to the voters.
Riot's goal is not to create a fair tournament it's to create a shit load of hype and something that people are going to watch. The discussions have been ongoing about how people should vote, what we should be voting for etc... and everyone has to keep going back to the site and thinking about it each day. Riot know what they're doing.
Why don't they let a bunch of half naked girls play to hype the tournament even more? Have a fan participation section where the best dressed Ahri look-a-like gets to play with the biggest names in the scene.
RIOT PLZ. I KNOW YOU ARE READING.
The game would be pretty boring though.They should have some pros play in the backstage and the girls pretending to be playing themselves!
and they'd be obligated to make ahri sound effects too, right?
Really disliking the janna one tbh.Don't think you can ignore defense tree AND ar/mr runes.If you do this you have to stay behind your adc and unless it's cait vs vayne or something he will get zoned very easily.
This for sure. Plus she and alistar basically are the counters to blitz and thresh. They have the ability to disengage in a manner that renders their throws almost useless (or at least resets the fight). In fact, I think if Janna nado's right she can stop the pull halfway by knocking up blitz. If that doesn't work, she still gets knockups and a free disengage for the ADC. That's why blitz wasn't "OP" for so long, Janna was always around (and Sona/Soraka sustain was super strong). He's "OP" now because people stopped using Janna/Alistar so much and switched to things like Zyra, Sona, Nami, etc. which cannot disengage when caught by a grab.
Janna is more "countered" by is strong cc laners like Leona and Taric. Taric because of his strong lane phase (stun/heal) which, although she's fine, she's not quite as good (you can't run a kill lane and get your ADC super fed as easily). Leona because she can get instagibbed on the double stun (though she does have a chance at disengaging, but still that means you're fine playing quite defensively but then you're giving the lane to the other team).
You shouldn't need mana regen / level on anyone. Just put MR there and don't be a squishy instagibbed support (that's usually what loses lanes). You should be fine mana-wise, especially when you start with a mana regen item.
Zyra is fine vs Soraka, no counter either way. Her vs Leona is funny, she has an advantage early, but after Leona gets ult they can all-in the opposing ADC pretty hard. Don't know if it's really a counter though. Taric is for sure a counter, she gets busted in lane by Taric. My brother (plays only Rumble and Support Zyra, Gold I) is on a mission to find a new support just because of what his win rate vs Taric is.
Why don't you have Janna starting with a vision ward? Out of all of them, she'll need to win the bush warding war the most because if she loses the bush warding war vs Taric/Leona, her ADC can't farm at all early on.
Taric does not counter Cait for sure. If the bush is warded, she can just harass the hell out of him and he can't do anything. Even if he does manage to get a stun, she can e away to safety before it lands. So you've got an almost useless Taric in lane... not a good position for them. Cait will just keep pushing and poking that matchup, the armor aura is not enough to stop someone who gets free autos all day long. He zones out people without an escape like Ashe pretty hard.
I don't understand how Janna does well against blitz/thresh at all. You already have kind of a weak laning phase, and thresh/blitz excels at just being douchebags and pressuring/zoning your ad. Against taric and leona you can tornado as they have to run up to you to engage, and with a smartly placed Q you can basically neuter Leona's E.
Zyra can't poke down a soraka lane effectively unless her lane gets a kill early, cause after lvl5 soraka lane still becomes that immovable object with her sustain, which means the soraka lane can win a war of attrition given that zyra has 0 ad protection/sustain. Also leona would just dump on her with her EQW combo cause zyra can't stop the E engage.
Taric counters cait in the sense that his armor aura is excellent against her early lane abuse given her range, which is one of her biggest pros. If cait pushes really hard taric always has the option of using W/R to push the wave back. It negates to a certain extend the early bullying power of caitlyn, it's not a direct counter ala draven vs vayne or anything.
Janna does not have a weak laning phase. She has a very reactive laning phase which is something most people can't grasp properly. So while she can't poke, sustain, OR all-in very well, if you play right she can neuralize most of those threats, even a fatal blitz hook with a well placed tornado and a quick zephyr, and as such counter your plays better than any other support.
Edit: and 13MR is overrated. It doesn't actually help all that much unless you're trading with a sona/lulu all day long, which you shouldn't be, or if you get engaged on by a trist/leona all-in which also shouldn't happen.
On April 13 2013 20:52 Letmelose wrote: I mean, I have no idea why Riot is putting so much weight into this tournament in the first place if they're not even going to adress the nature of the competition to the voters.
Riot's goal is not to create a fair tournament it's to create a shit load of hype and something that people are going to watch. The discussions have been ongoing about how people should vote, what we should be voting for etc... and everyone has to keep going back to the site and thinking about it each day. Riot know what they're doing.
Why don't they let a bunch of half naked girls play to hype the tournament even more? Have a fan participation section where the best dressed Ahri look-a-like gets to play with the biggest names in the scene.
RIOT PLZ. I KNOW YOU ARE READING.
The game would be pretty boring though.They should have some pros play in the backstage and the girls pretending to be playing themselves!
and they'd be obligated to make ahri sound effects too, right?
Alright, you got me onboard the ahri train.
And im now semi-aroused by 0:15-0:30 and going to pester my sleeping wife, probably going to end in a kick in the nuts but hey, stranger shit has happened.
Really disliking the janna one tbh.Don't think you can ignore defense tree AND ar/mr runes.If you do this you have to stay behind your adc and unless it's cait vs vayne or something he will get zoned very easily.
This for sure. Plus she and alistar basically are the counters to blitz and thresh. They have the ability to disengage in a manner that renders their throws almost useless (or at least resets the fight). In fact, I think if Janna nado's right she can stop the pull halfway by knocking up blitz. If that doesn't work, she still gets knockups and a free disengage for the ADC. That's why blitz wasn't "OP" for so long, Janna was always around (and Sona/Soraka sustain was super strong). He's "OP" now because people stopped using Janna/Alistar so much and switched to things like Zyra, Sona, Nami, etc. which cannot disengage when caught by a grab.
Janna is more "countered" by is strong cc laners like Leona and Taric. Taric because of his strong lane phase (stun/heal) which, although she's fine, she's not quite as good (you can't run a kill lane and get your ADC super fed as easily). Leona because she can get instagibbed on the double stun (though she does have a chance at disengaging, but still that means you're fine playing quite defensively but then you're giving the lane to the other team).
You shouldn't need mana regen / level on anyone. Just put MR there and don't be a squishy instagibbed support (that's usually what loses lanes). You should be fine mana-wise, especially when you start with a mana regen item.
Zyra is fine vs Soraka, no counter either way. Her vs Leona is funny, she has an advantage early, but after Leona gets ult they can all-in the opposing ADC pretty hard. Don't know if it's really a counter though. Taric is for sure a counter, she gets busted in lane by Taric. My brother (plays only Rumble and Support Zyra, Gold I) is on a mission to find a new support just because of what his win rate vs Taric is.
Why don't you have Janna starting with a vision ward? Out of all of them, she'll need to win the bush warding war the most because if she loses the bush warding war vs Taric/Leona, her ADC can't farm at all early on.
Taric does not counter Cait for sure. If the bush is warded, she can just harass the hell out of him and he can't do anything. Even if he does manage to get a stun, she can e away to safety before it lands. So you've got an almost useless Taric in lane... not a good position for them. Cait will just keep pushing and poking that matchup, the armor aura is not enough to stop someone who gets free autos all day long. He zones out people without an escape like Ashe pretty hard.
Wait what.
It's just the opposite. Janna hard counters Taric and Leona.
Janna is pretty bad against Blitz and Leona from my experience. Both of them simply negate Janna's zone control and come with a good amount of CC. There's just no reaction by Janna as soon as a skill shot lands.
On April 14 2013 05:10 NeoIllusions wrote: Janna is pretty bad against Blitz and Leona from my experience. Both of them simply negate Janna's zone control and come with a good amount of CC. There's just no reaction by Janna as soon as a skill shot lands.
Janna can do well against Taric though.
I was watching Krepo and he said Janna is a hard counter to Leona since she can just tornado her zenith blade. Was he wrong? Idk, I suck at support.
EPT
