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On April 18 2013 09:54 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 09:48 cLutZ wrote:
While walking around during break I excitedly thought of the idea of having Karma Q be detonatable like Anivia's stun (without the stun of course). except you would have to slow it down a ton to make that not broken/impossible to use, then you'd have to up the damage because its would be much lower percentage,then you'd have to raise the CD because otherwise the damage potential would be absurd, then it would totally fuck up the synergy with mantra reduction and you broke her kit
I should be clear. I Meant RQ.
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Haven't had time to read much of GD lately so apologies if it's been brought up much but, is Cop suddenly Doublelift's level or is all of Crs making sure he's #1 priority?
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On April 18 2013 09:52 overt wrote:
So can anyone think of a situation where red buff is stronger on a jungler than an ADC when it gets later in the game?
As an ADC I have zero problems with my jungler getting red while laning is happening because he can make way more use of it than I can (I would use red only to win my lane whereas he could use red to win every lane). But literally the second that laning is over I feel that I'm entitled to red buff. As an ADC I make more use out of red than any of the other players on my team.
I mean the best scenario I could think of would be if I was playing say Ashe and they were playing like an Udyr or someone who could very easily stick to the enemy if they had red. But even in that best case scenario red buff on Ashe might still be better.
I've just had a few games lately where my jungler will get angry with me for taking red buff at like the 30 minute mark or just come by and smite it. Maybe they're just being dicks or I'm having a bad experience but I'm trying to figure out if some pro player did it or if there's some reasonable logic behind it.
CLG used to give HotShot red when he was Cho in the late game. It made him quite strong. I think if you have a good peel team and their gap closers are big jumps (on people who want to just jump the ADC), you might as well give it to the big guy.
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On April 18 2013 10:05 SoulSever wrote:
Haven't had time to read much of GD lately so apologies if it's been brought up much but, is Cop suddenly Doublelift's level or is all of Crs making sure he's #1 priority?
Not even close.
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So I've been playing some LoL (I'm bad, Bronze III or something, second lowest league there is), mainly because my school internet can't handle Dota 2 (but handles LoL fine, curiously). I've noticed that each persons role is typically decided by who types it out the fastest in chat. I like playing all the roles for the most part, so I normally just stay quiet.
So, I end up jungling about 80% of the time. No matter what jungler I choose, my teammates tend to get mad at me for not ganking enough (especially bot lane, but its always warded) when they lose their lane 1v1 or 2v2. I use Jarvan a lot because he's fun and the pros use him (and his ult in the later portions of the game is great in team fights, last game I was Jarvan I went like 3-5-20 and helped win the game by catching their adc), but he's hard to gank with before lvl 6. Back in the day when I played a decent bit I jungled Nunu or Mundo, but they seem to have fallen off.
What are some good junglers I can pick that will allow me to gank earlier and shut my teammates up so they can't always blame me for losing their lane? Shen? Nocturne? I think I own Udyr? Amumu? Alastair?
I don't care that I'm Bronze III or IV (forgot which), I just want to be a better jungler to help my team when I actually do play this game. Thoughts?
[Also, weirdly enough, I play with my friend in Gold II a lot and I hold my own or excel in those games (but I never jungle). Is jungling just not my role?]
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On April 18 2013 10:46 Witten wrote:
So I've been playing some LoL (I'm bad, Bronze III or something, second lowest league there is), mainly because my school internet can't handle Dota 2 (but handles LoL fine, curiously). I've noticed that each persons role is typically decided by who types it out the fastest in chat. I like playing all the roles for the most part, so I normally just stay quiet.
So, I end up jungling about 80% of the time. No matter what jungler I choose, my teammates tend to get mad at me for not ganking enough (especially bot lane, but its always warded) when they lose their lane 1v1 or 2v2. I use Jarvan a lot because he's fun and the pros use him (and his ult in the later portions of the game is great in team fights, last game I was Jarvan I went like 3-5-20 and helped win the game by catching their adc), but he's hard to gank with before lvl 6. Back in the day when I played a decent bit I jungled Nunu or Mundo, but they seem to have fallen off.
What are some good junglers I can pick that will allow me to gank earlier and shut my teammates up so they can't always blame me for losing their lane? Shen? Nocturne? I think I own Udyr? Amumu? Alastair?
I don't care that I'm Bronze III or IV (forgot which), I just want to be a better jungler to help my team when I actually do play this game. Thoughts?
[Also, weirdly enough, I play with my friend in Gold II a lot and I hold my own or excel in those games (but I never jungle). Is jungling just not my role?]
If you need to camp, Jarvin, Xin, Noc, Amumu are my go tos. The thing is, any of these can camp, get a little behind, and just build a little tanky to do ok in the mid game.
Also, they have a lot of potential to catch people. That's all that matters in solo queue.
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On April 18 2013 09:52 overt wrote:
So can anyone think of a situation where red buff is stronger on a jungler than an ADC when it gets later in the game?
As an ADC I have zero problems with my jungler getting red while laning is happening because he can make way more use of it than I can (I would use red only to win my lane whereas he could use red to win every lane). But literally the second that laning is over I feel that I'm entitled to red buff. As an ADC I make more use out of red than any of the other players on my team.
I mean the best scenario I could think of would be if I was playing say Ashe and they were playing like an Udyr or someone who could very easily stick to the enemy if they had red. But even in that best case scenario red buff on Ashe might still be better.
I've just had a few games lately where my jungler will get angry with me for taking red buff at like the 30 minute mark or just come by and smite it. Maybe they're just being dicks or I'm having a bad experience but I'm trying to figure out if some pro player did it or if there's some reasonable logic behind it.
Yes, I feel they are essentially being rude. Overall, red is still really powerful on adcs. In soloqueue especially, you are just better off taking red buff. There is a small amount of junglers that might benefit more from red, and it's still pretty iffy. I believe you can give red to such junglers as nasus, jarvan IV, Vi, Xin Zhou(also he's lost his popularity), and Hecarim. That's mostly because they can just dive the enemy ADC and overall, the team fights benefits more from that zoning. Still, it takes a pretty fed jungler to do it well enough and survive. It also takes a lot more team coordination than is possible in solo queue(for the most part).
On April 18 2013 10:46 Witten wrote:
So I've been playing some LoL (I'm bad, Bronze III or something, second lowest league there is), mainly because my school internet can't handle Dota 2 (but handles LoL fine, curiously). I've noticed that each persons role is typically decided by who types it out the fastest in chat. I like playing all the roles for the most part, so I normally just stay quiet.
So, I end up jungling about 80% of the time. No matter what jungler I choose, my teammates tend to get mad at me for not ganking enough (especially bot lane, but its always warded) when they lose their lane 1v1 or 2v2. I use Jarvan a lot because he's fun and the pros use him (and his ult in the later portions of the game is great in team fights, last game I was Jarvan I went like 3-5-20 and helped win the game by catching their adc), but he's hard to gank with before lvl 6. Back in the day when I played a decent bit I jungled Nunu or Mundo, but they seem to have fallen off.
What are some good junglers I can pick that will allow me to gank earlier and shut my teammates up so they can't always blame me for losing their lane? Shen? Nocturne? I think I own Udyr? Amumu? Alastair?
I don't care that I'm Bronze III or IV (forgot which), I just want to be a better jungler to help my team when I actually do play this game. Thoughts?
[Also, weirdly enough, I play with my friend in Gold II a lot and I hold my own or excel in those games (but I never jungle). Is jungling just not my role?]
I think you can safely pick Alistar and Rammus jungle recently because people forgot how to deal with them again. Also because they are entertaining to play when done right.
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Just had a game where the enemy team 1st picked shaco and banned Lee and his other main counters. FINALLY had a reason to try Skarner in S3. Seemed alright, distortion boots and frozen fist are pretty sick on him. That poor Shaco would not even enter my jungle lol. Will have to play him a bit more, aside for the stupid mana costs, he seems alright.
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J4 is one of the best junglers for pre lv6 ganks, he's also probably the best first jungler to learn as he takes a bit of mechanical skill, is very flexible in ganks and team fights, provides a lot of utility and fits into any comp.
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On April 18 2013 10:54 Diamond wrote:
Just had a game where the enemy team 1st picked shaco and banned Lee and his other main counters. FINALLY had a reason to try Skarner in S3. Seemed alright, distortion boots and frozen fist are pretty sick on him. That poor Shaco would not even enter my jungle lol. Will have to play him a bit more, aside for the stupid mana costs, he seems alright.
yeah they should just revert his mana cost nerf and he'll be a lot better again
feels pretty strong with new itemization tho
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On April 18 2013 10:46 Witten wrote:
So, I end up jungling about 80% of the time. No matter what jungler I choose, my teammates tend to get mad at me for not ganking enough (especially bot lane, but its always warded) when they lose their lane 1v1 or 2v2. I use Jarvan a lot because he's fun and the pros use him (and his ult in the later portions of the game is great in team fights, last game I was Jarvan I went like 3-5-20 and helped win the game by catching their adc), but he's hard to gank with before lvl 6. Back in the day when I played a decent bit I jungled Nunu or Mundo, but they seem to have fallen off.
I don't care that I'm Bronze III or IV (forgot which), I just want to be a better jungler to help my team when I actually do play this game. Thoughts?
Jarvan actually has very, very strong level 2 ganks because his EQ combo has good range (also allows to bypass river wards if you're blue side top or purple side bottom, by going from the "high ground" near the tribrush to the river bush that's touching the "cliff"—see these pics), good damage, knock-up is a strong cc and Jarvan is an excellent fighter at early levels (good base damage, his passive thrives on the low armour found early on, etc.), so you definitely don't have to wait for level 6.
If you don't, the combo still works just as well later on, you'll just need more damage to get a kill, but burning flashes is very easy once you get a feel for those early ganks.
People will always complain about ganks anyway, even if you hand them fb and a 5-10 cs headstart, they'll blame you if they get overconfident and give 2 kills to ganks in return, because "I only had one gank, he had 2!". An important skill is to learn when it's worth it to gank, and when it's not (in which case you just go elsewhere or stay farming/counterjungling)—as somebody who doesn't gank enough/as much as the average Silver guy, it's obvious that I'm reliant on my lanes not being camped/feeding too hard early on because my higher gold/level won't mean squat if all lanes are behind.
(About pick order, really pick order is pick order, if you're first pick take whatever you want, doesn't matter if last pick said "MID ME NO SUPPORT MID". Maybe people rage harder about it in Bronze though, never been there.)
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Lane Zac is pretty good. Did substantially more damage than I initially thought, though requires a lot of sustained fighting. Pretty squishy early on, needs a couple items to really get rolling and able to duel. If they can't stop your jump though, you're pretty well unkillable..
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On April 18 2013 10:46 Witten wrote:
So I've been playing some LoL (I'm bad, Bronze III or something, second lowest league there is), mainly because my school internet can't handle Dota 2 (but handles LoL fine, curiously). I've noticed that each persons role is typically decided by who types it out the fastest in chat. I like playing all the roles for the most part, so I normally just stay quiet.
So, I end up jungling about 80% of the time. No matter what jungler I choose, my teammates tend to get mad at me for not ganking enough (especially bot lane, but its always warded) when they lose their lane 1v1 or 2v2. I use Jarvan a lot because he's fun and the pros use him (and his ult in the later portions of the game is great in team fights, last game I was Jarvan I went like 3-5-20 and helped win the game by catching their adc), but he's hard to gank with before lvl 6. Back in the day when I played a decent bit I jungled Nunu or Mundo, but they seem to have fallen off.
What are some good junglers I can pick that will allow me to gank earlier and shut my teammates up so they can't always blame me for losing their lane? Shen? Nocturne? I think I own Udyr? Amumu? Alastair?
I don't care that I'm Bronze III or IV (forgot which), I just want to be a better jungler to help my team when I actually do play this game. Thoughts?
[Also, weirdly enough, I play with my friend in Gold II a lot and I hold my own or excel in those games (but I never jungle). Is jungling just not my role?]
Jarvan is a good ganker, it's just about how you gank I think. I think the general rule is
- When your team is even, you gank.
- When your team is losing, you camp
When you know there're wards and still have to gank anyway, just go straight in. If you know there's a ward in the bush and you just hang around the ward vision, waiting for the perfect engagement, it's never gonna happen. If you want to gank a warded lane, just stay past the ward vision, and then go straight in, no hesitate.
You should anticipate that the first gank will always a fail gank because of all the flash, barrier,.... If you gank and make them use those, you already have a successful gank. The sooner they have to use their flash/barrier, the better your lane will become because they will not try to play aggressive anymore, and even if they play aggressive, they can't kill your lane because they can't flash in and finish the job.
With Jarvan or LeeSin, you are fully capable to gank and force them to use flash/barrier at level 2 with blue buff. Save your red buff for 2nd gank since you can kill them in 2nd gank.
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Canada23833 Posts
I always ignore any and all request for ganks. I gank when I want to.
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Just don't worry about people bitching, at Bronze III people have no clue why they lose lanes so they blame the jungle. This continues at more or less all elos. They are likely at fault, not you. Top off that most players at that elo have no clue how to react properly to an incoming friendly gank, often the jungler is the least at fault.
Also J4 has pretty money early ganks. I do the Wolves > Blue > Red > Lvl 3 gank route. It's pretty brutal and unless you miss your e/q you should get a flash for free every time.
On April 18 2013 11:25 Sufficiency wrote:
I always ignore any and all request for ganks. I gank when I want to.
^ This. Best way to get better is being able to yourself know which lanes need ganks.
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Hmm, that's an interesting strategy. Aphro's just saying that he ran 3x flat HP quints on thresh, ~700hp at level 1 and you are guaranteed to win a level 2 all in against pretty much any duo lane.
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Sweden4641 Posts
Objective based jungling is sooo much more consistent in winning games than gank oriented jungling. They don't ward i do not gank i run up and ward their lane then back of.
If they get shaco / j4 just swing by the lane that will get ganked and counter it.
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On April 18 2013 07:10 TheYango wrote:
If they were going to use an aspect of Wisp tether, I would have taken the health-sharing component, not the stun. Something like causing Mantra tether to allow you to take some of the damage for your tethered target, or Mantra tether causes the next shield or heal you cast on yourself to also be applied to your Tethered target.
I can get behind that from the standpoint of it being potentially more interesting in a vacuum, but in the context of pre-remake Karma, she's already distributing a massive amount of EHP to pretty much anyone on your team. I don't think adding more of the same really would have contributed anything to her kit. I feel like I might be falling into the Riot trap and trying to force something rather than let design flow organically, though.
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Yeah he has good lvl 2 ganks, they're just hard for my scrub ass to hit sometimes 
But I get the hint, keep doing what I'm doing and maybe camp bottom a little more (I always end up leaving bottom out if I leave any lane out). And I appreciate the person who told me to go ahead with alastar, he used to be my favorite hero when i only played jungle and support!
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On April 18 2013 11:25 Sufficiency wrote:
I always ignore any and all request for ganks. I gank when I want to.
I share this belief.
I usually ask my lanes where enemy wards are. If they don't tell me, I'm gonna just keep farming huehuehue.
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EPT
