EPT[Patch 3.05.2: April Fools] League of Legends General Disc…
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On April 09 2013 02:39 TheYango wrote: I will say that if Riot goes with this option, I will be disappointed if they have build paths. There's absolutely nothing wrong with filler that you just sell later. If Seeker's Armguard proved anything it was Riot is willing to add an entirely new item to prevent people from having to sell back an item they first bought (AP Mids starting Cloth 5 and losing an entire 90 gold if they sold it back instead of building it into anything, how tragic) | ||
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DrunkenOne
United States302 Posts
On April 09 2013 02:50 Requizen wrote: I would say "It would at least open up more starts", but I actually feel like there are a lot of good ones right now. Maybe junglers need to have something besides Machete 5pot, but at least we're not in the S2 time of Boots+3 on everything and everyone. Theres a good number now, but if the changes to red elixir and the rumored 5 max health pot changes go through that will reduce the starting options a bit. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On April 09 2013 00:13 Juicyfruit wrote: You probably do want a flask since you'll be doing a lot of trading down the line so it'll pay off. You'll also probably base a lot just to keep up on items (i.e.recall to buy a longsword, recall to buy an extra ruby crystal etc) since there's really no "safe" way for Wukong to play the lane. I don't think you need a ward at the start since I doubt you'll be doing much trading pre-6, and it's pretty hard to gank a monkey that's just farming. Uh? Wukong destroys squishy mids even without his ult. His problem would be taking damage while disengaging (he doesn't have strong ranged harass like Panth/Kha/Zed, nor the bullshit 100-0 all-in potential of a Jayce, nor the disengage of say Fizz) but as long as you manage to E-auto-Q them a couple of times (with more autos if they let you get away with it) he has very good kill potential. Sure, he won't get too close of a Cass/Lux, but on most mids he can punish hard enough to get kills. I currently open 2 wards, 6 health pots, 2 (or 3 can't remember) mana pots top, because I want to be able to farm to 6 in one go if I can (either I get a kill before that and can try to leverage my advantage, or I can't and then I'll just try to chip them using his strong trading and my mana pots, until I can all-in them at 6 or gain a farm advantage if they back before that). Considering his high burst, but also high mana-consumption, at levels 2-4 (depending on when you take W, I tend to take it at 4 because E gets 45 damage per level and I want to keep pressuring at 3), having some kind of mana regen is important, especially against champs starting all-consumables. One of his weaknesses compared to champ with a similar kit/aggro playstyle is that he has a hard time 100-0ing people pre-6, unlike true assassins and champs like Jayce or Darius (Darius has very high sustained damage early, esp. through his passive, and the MS buff allows him to keep it going even if his opponent runs as long as he engages far away from tower), so full consumables starts give him more trouble than to them. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On April 09 2013 02:59 DrunkenOne wrote: Theres a good number now, but if the changes to red elixir and the rumored 5 max health pot changes go through that will reduce the starting options a bit. Eh, a bit but not really. If you're capped at 5, people will use that gold for another ward, an equal amount of mana potions, or a rejuv/faerie. Still plenty of options. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35147 Posts
On April 09 2013 02:53 onlywonderboy wrote: If Seeker's Armguard proved anything it was Riot is willing to add an entirely new item to prevent people from having to sell back an item they first bought (AP Mids starting Cloth 5 and losing an entire 90 gold if they sold it back instead of building it into anything, how tragic) And don't even try to mention Tabi against the physical damage source they're comepletely helpless against. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On April 09 2013 03:07 Alaric wrote: Uh? Wukong destroys squishy mids even without his ult. His problem would be taking damage while disengaging (he doesn't have strong ranged harass like Panth/Kha/Zed, nor the bullshit 100-0 all-in potential of a Jayce, nor the disengage of say Fizz) but as long as you manage to E-auto-Q them a couple of times (with more autos if they let you get away with it) he has very good kill potential. Sure, he won't get too close of a Cass/Lux, but on most mids he can punish hard enough to get kills. I currently open 2 wards, 6 health pots, 2 (or 3 can't remember) mana pots top, because I want to be able to farm to 6 in one go if I can (either I get a kill before that and can try to leverage my advantage, or I can't and then I'll just try to chip them using his strong trading and my mana pots, until I can all-in them at 6 or gain a farm advantage if they back before that). Considering his high burst, but also high mana-consumption, at levels 2-4 (depending on when you take W, I tend to take it at 4 because E gets 45 damage per level and I want to keep pressuring at 3), having some kind of mana regen is important, especially against champs starting all-consumables. One of his weaknesses compared to champ with a similar kit/aggro playstyle is that he has a hard time 100-0ing people pre-6, unlike true assassins and champs like Jayce or Darius (Darius has very high sustained damage early, esp. through his passive, and the MS buff allows him to keep it going even if his opponent runs as long as he engages far away from tower), so full consumables starts give him more trouble than to them. OK, but do you actually get enough done that jjustifies the risk of playing that aggressively? | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On April 09 2013 02:50 Requizen wrote: I would say "It would at least open up more starts", but I actually feel like there are a lot of good ones right now. Maybe junglers need to have something besides Machete 5pot, but at least we're not in the S2 time of Boots+3 on everything and everyone. i saw a chinese game (WE vs OMG) where pantheon jungle started red pot against volibear jungle who went cloth/5. there were also very clever attempts at timing pushes with pantheon because of that start. i tried casting that game with my buddy and if it's not shitty content-wise hopefully it'll be uploaded soon. but i suspect my commentary is terrible anyway. honestly, the game is evolving and instead of pointing at stuff that random people think needs to be changed for some reason, it would be better to direct focus on innovating your tactics and builds on the team level. the game is in a great spot right now and i don't see a reason to really shake it up at the moment. i've actually stopped playing dota because of all the great stuff going on at the pro level and trying to discover new builds, team comps, or even situational builds based on what the other team is doing. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
I mean like, you have the option of all these wonderful Doran's items, then you can take your pick of consumables and one or two regen items. I think its great. Also, heavy consumables start is kind of underrated on some supports. Taking 3 or 4 mana pots on Lulu is soooo abusive, and taking the pickpocket mastery totally makes up for it. EDIT: freeweek blitz, time to always ban | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On April 09 2013 02:48 mr_tolkien wrote: Big problem is the lack of cheap items. DotA has 28 items which are cheaper than the starting gold. 28. To be fair some of this niche is taken by Runes instead. On April 09 2013 03:15 ticklishmusic wrote: Man, you guys are doing it wrong if you're complaining about not having enough stuff at the start. I mean like, you have the option of all these wonderful Doran's items, then you can take your pick of consumables and one or two regen items. I think its great. Also, heavy consumables start is kind of underrated on some supports. Taking 3 or 4 mana pots on Lulu is soooo abusive, and taking the pickpocket mastery totally makes up for it. EDIT: freeweek blitz, time to always ban Dorans are pretty awful level 1 items for a solo lane. You get crushed so badly by not taking any potions. If dorans instead cost like... 235 and gave half the stats, I could agree with you on them being wonderful-take-your-pick-of-consumables. | ||
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Keniji
Netherlands2569 Posts
On April 09 2013 02:48 mr_tolkien wrote: Big problem is the lack of cheap items. DotA has 28 items which are cheaper than the starting gold. 28. and how many of them are viable starting items? I mean, LoL has quite a few items that are cheaper (or equal) than the starting gold, only problem is that consumables are so much stronger. what would be the alternative? items as strong as consumables? that would make consumables absolutely useless (for the entire game) items that are so cheap that you can start mass consumables anyway. (fearie/rejuv)? items that are a must buy? (boots in s2) | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On April 09 2013 03:14 Juicyfruit wrote: OK, but do you actually get enough done that jjustifies the risk of playing that aggressively? Mid I don't know, I'd be more exposed to ganks and playing aggro who overall be harder (either I ward 2 sides but am limited in time, or ward one and have a full 6 minutes if I need it but it'll affect my positioning in lane and thus will make things harder), but top I can afford to play very aggressive, the downside with 2 wards available actually isn't the jungler (unless he says "fuck that ward, I'll sacrifice my farm to camp") but the difficult that Wukong has shoving (gotta be careful with E or your opponent will position himself to give you aggro) once your aggressiveness pushes the wave to his tower. On the other hand cloth+5 and boots+3 starts are still common at my level, and red elixir start are a rarity... so I'm not really exposed to the tougher cases (full consumables still has people usually out-traded at levels 2-3 so if I can use my mana pots to keep pressuring I won't be able to kill them easily but I'll keep them low enough that I can start zoning, and by then they're typically out of pots before 6, letting me set up an all-in or increase the farm advantage). Haven't played much against stuff like Zed top who would probably destroy me though. | ||
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TSBspartacus
England1046 Posts
From now on I'll only get BotRK on Zed if I need the tank shredding but tbh I can't see myself actually needing it and I find it harder to keep track of 2 actives (3 if randuins) and all Zeds skills, and the extra life steal is a lost stat if you have BT and Hydra and Warmogs, you're pretty much back to full off any camp or wave or minute running around anyway. The game I tested in was a bit of a perfect scenario, I was 23-4-7 by the end, but I was 3-1 before I got my hydra and then was able to buy big parts of items every back before that. I think it was the Hydra that did it, the Tiamat improved my clear speeds and gives decent (50) damage for a stepping stone item. I'll let you know if I get hydra in lane, not sure about it atm since you're all about duelling and BotRK is arguably stronger in that regards, but it would be a great passive farm buy. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 09 2013 03:18 sylverfyre wrote: To be fair some of this niche is taken by Runes instead. I would argue that it was partly the intent of runes and masteries to replace the granularity of starting items in the first place. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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RouaF
France4120 Posts
 sadface | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On April 09 2013 03:40 TheYango wrote: I would argue that it was partly the intent of runes and masteries to replace the granularity of starting items in the first place. Agreed. We don't need branches and shit, that's what runes are for. I wouldnt complain if dorans were a little more viable for level 1 items, but that would so easily turn into a situation of "only buy dorans + pots (+ward) level 1 ever" | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On April 09 2013 03:15 ticklishmusic wrote: Man, you guys are doing it wrong if you're complaining about not having enough stuff at the start. I mean like, you have the option of all these wonderful Doran's items, then you can take your pick of consumables and one or two regen items. I think its great. Also, heavy consumables start is kind of underrated on some supports. Taking 3 or 4 mana pots on Lulu is soooo abusive, and taking the pickpocket mastery totally makes up for it. EDIT: freeweek blitz, time to always ban The only role you can really open a dorans item is ADC. There are probably some mid lane match ups or top lane match ups where Dring/Dblade/Dshield could work but it'd probably be a bit risky and if you have one even trade you're going to be behind or forced to back to get pots so you have to either farm without being harassed at all or harass them without being harassed back. If they nerf the amount of starting pots you'll just see lots of mid laners go flask+pots or faerie charm+5pot+ward. Non-mana using top laners probably go something like cloth+5pot a lot. edit: I don't wanna go back to season 1 where everyone bought Dblade+2pot or Dring+2pot. | ||
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