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On March 28 2013 03:35 UniversalSnip wrote:man in a year if we still have a GD thread it's going to be all pro player discussion and discussion of riot's marketing ("did you see the next champ? morello hinted that he's named brohotep and he's amumu's brother") nothing about the game... makes me sad Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 00:52 Vanka wrote:
If I'm playing something like jungle alistar whose clear really suffers, do you think it's ever worth it to go madred's as well as spirit stone? yeah Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 02:13 Kyhron wrote:On March 28 2013 02:11 sob3k wrote:On March 27 2013 22:30 Lounge wrote:On March 27 2013 21:14 phyvo wrote:
Imo one pillar on reset may not be enough, maybe he needs two pillars per reset. This got me thinking what if all of his skills were just his pillar, just as a joke. Now I really want to see a champion with 3 abilities that are all the same but they have their own individual cooldowns. Shadowfiend from dota: Shadowfiend Except that thats just 1 ability with 3 seperate casts. You level 1 you level all 3. Similar but not exactly the same if you want to get nit picky So you want something that's like shadow raze but you have to put in three times as many skill points?
Well, using Trundle as an example, you could build (some of) the passive stat gains from his Q, and W into his base + level stats, or tie it to his passive, and then he'd have 3 pillars. Now, if you just had to level one of them but could use it 3 times he'd be able to do full walls and destroy position at 1, if he has to level each ones CD/snare it allows him to use one frequently, and very infrequently he could double or triple pillar until he leveled everything up.
Obviously pillar as it is now would be way to strong of an ability, but I just thought it was an interesting idea, not something I expect Riot to do.
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i feel like support requires the least amount of matchup knowledge, therefore it's an easier role to learn than others if you transition from a different role. bot lane matchups are the most static as well, and because there's two people in lane there's a bigger emphasis on teamwork than individual skill and knowledge.
outside of laning phase, support is really no different from any other role except you bear a greater responsibility for warding and keeping map control. you might not have a dps role but you still have different roles that you can play (initiate/tank/disengage, etc.) depending on your hero.
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On March 28 2013 03:08 zulu_nation8 wrote:
not sure what he was talking about then but my point is that supports get ALL the respect they deserve, sometimes even too much.
dan dinh explicitly stated that he believed support is a role anyone could pick up in a week.
On March 28 2013 03:51 kainzero wrote:
i feel like support requires the least amount of matchup knowledge, therefore it's an easier role to learn than others if you transition from a different role. bot lane matchups are the most static as well, and because there's two people in lane there's a bigger emphasis on teamwork than individual skill and knowledge.
outside of laning phase, support is really no different from any other role except you bear a greater responsibility for warding and keeping map control. you might not have a dps role but you still have different roles that you can play (initiate/tank/disengage, etc.) depending on your hero.
uhh no. it's a lot more information than other roles.
to put it at a very simple level, you are one champ who interacts with three others in lane-- your two opponents and your ad. you have to figure out how you synergize with your ad, and also know how the enemy support synergizes with his ad. then you need to know how you interact with the enemy support and ad, and how your ad does. even in the picking stage, you have to try and pick based on three other champs instead of one-- of course there's the overall team comp you have to think about, but you also have to take into account a lot more while considering the laning aspect.
a lot of plays bot lane need to be initiated by a support, and that requires careful judgement of your opponent's damage output, cc and positioning. in addition, you need to depend on your ad to do something afterwars-- in team play that isn't necessarily so bad, but in soloQ i may see an opportunity to go in as leona, but maybe my ad will follow up late or decide its not worth it and im being stupid. calculating two enemy's burst/damage/cc potential and figuring if you can win a trade or something is a lot more difficult than if you only have a single lane opponent.
tl;dr 2v2 situation is a lot more complicated because there's more champs involved.
the best part is you get to do this on a minimum budget. so you can snowball lanes and get a reasonable amount of farm sometimes, but otherwise you're stuck pathetically behind. other roles who fall behind often have some sort of waveclear so they can farm themselves back in, you don't. you're still spending gold on wards mostly.
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Support is based on the champ you pick. There are more styles of support than probably any other position. Janna vs. Lulu vs. Ali vs. Soraka is so much more than Singed/Jax/Renekton/Rumble.
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don't listen to dan dinh then
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United States23745 Posts
On March 28 2013 02:24 zulu_nation8 wrote:
not a lot of teams have a sub support because there are not a lot of supports in general, also wings can't jungle. You are allowed two subs so obviously not every role will have a sub, and obviously pro players know that you can't just learn support in two weeks.
Teams aren't limited to just two subs, they need to have two but can have up to five. For example all of Dignitas Junior are considered official subs for Dignitas.
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So, I need some advice. I love cassio, I'd say I'm not horrible with her (altho not gold level). Is she viable ? Should I train her or just let her go and pick a more suited ap to play with ?
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Supports get too much respect often because most of them are bad and for some reason people think they did something amazing even when it is just doing their job.All roles require the same skill to play.The hardest part of support is obviously that you have to take in account that you aren't laning solo.Not having to last hit(which is honestly SO EASY in this game) doesn't mean it's easier....
edit:You really shouldn't care if a champ is viable.If you like it and think it's fun just play it lol.If you can play it well you can always carry in solo q anyway.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nVq9iMy.jpg)
the worst day of my life... HOW DID HE BACK? i thought he was banned.
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On March 28 2013 04:29 Mensol wrote:the worst day of my life... HOW DID HE BACK?
This is just a small, low res image so I'm not sure how we're supposed to respond, but I'm going to take a wild guess at what happened:
Someone tried to interrupt Riven's recall early on in the channel while her shield was up, didn't break the shield and thus didn't cancel the recall (you need to deal damage to their health to break recall).
edit: Your edit drastically changes the meaning of your post. Never mind entirely.
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that doesnt make sense
recall takes 8 seconds, her shield lasts for like 2
edit: oh
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On March 28 2013 04:26 nafta wrote:
edit:You really shouldn't care if a champ is viable.If you like it and think it's fun just play it lol.If you can play it well you can always carry in solo q anyway.
Getting roflstomped by someone else is not my definition of fun. If cass has no way to win against a competent mid playing the current fotm such as zed or kha, I'd rather not play her.
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i feel like cass could beat khaz at least.
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On March 28 2013 04:52 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:26 nafta wrote:
edit:You really shouldn't care if a champ is viable.If you like it and think it's fun just play it lol.If you can play it well you can always carry in solo q anyway. Getting roflstomped by someone else is not my definition of fun. If cass has no way to win against a competent mid playing the current fotm such as zed or kha, I'd rather not play her.
Well you are overestimating people's skill in general.TBH if it mattered picking first in solo q would always mean you lose solo lanes because of counters but you don't.Cass isn't very good imo but you can still beat pretty much everyone if you outplay them.I'd expect a lot of people to randomly die to a cass lvl2/3 because they just don't meet her much and don't know her big burst.
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Supports ARE easier to play mechanically than any other role, as long as you get the hang of a few basic rules to playing support. That's why they're the ones that are best suited for keeping track of the map and the overall gameplan, since they can afford more of their attention to doing so.
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On March 28 2013 04:50 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:29 Mensol wrote:the worst day of my life... HOW DID HE BACK? This is just a small, low res image so I'm not sure how we're supposed to respond, but I'm going to take a wild guess at what happened: Someone tried to interrupt Riven's recall early on in the channel while her shield was up, didn't break the shield and thus didn't cancel the recall (you need to deal damage to their health to break recall). edit: Your edit drastically changes the meaning of your post. Never mind entirely.
ugh he got banned for bad attıtude and troll picks.
i wrote that because annoying "BEST XXXXXX PLAYER IN THE WORLD" plug
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On March 28 2013 04:01 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 03:51 kainzero wrote:
i feel like support requires the least amount of matchup knowledge, therefore it's an easier role to learn than others if you transition from a different role. bot lane matchups are the most static as well, and because there's two people in lane there's a bigger emphasis on teamwork than individual skill and knowledge.
outside of laning phase, support is really no different from any other role except you bear a greater responsibility for warding and keeping map control. you might not have a dps role but you still have different roles that you can play (initiate/tank/disengage, etc.) depending on your hero. uhh no. it's a lot more information than other roles. to put it at a very simple level, you are one champ who interacts with three others in lane-- your two opponents and your ad. you have to figure out how you synergize with your ad, and also know how the enemy support synergizes with his ad. then you need to know how you interact with the enemy support and ad, and how your ad does. even in the picking stage, you have to try and pick based on three other champs instead of one-- of course there's the overall team comp you have to think about, but you also have to take into account a lot more while considering the laning aspect. a lot of plays bot lane need to be initiated by a support, and that requires careful judgement of your opponent's damage output, cc and positioning. in addition, you need to depend on your ad to do something afterwars-- in team play that isn't necessarily so bad, but in soloQ i may see an opportunity to go in as leona, but maybe my ad will follow up late or decide its not worth it and im being stupid. calculating two enemy's burst/damage/cc potential and figuring if you can win a trade or something is a lot more difficult than if you only have a single lane opponent. tl;dr 2v2 situation is a lot more complicated because there's more champs involved. the best part is you get to do this on a minimum budget. so you can snowball lanes and get a reasonable amount of farm sometimes, but otherwise you're stuck pathetically behind. other roles who fall behind often have some sort of waveclear so they can farm themselves back in, you don't. you're still spending gold on wards mostly.
i am not talking about solo q but team play. now we can assume you have a good captain so you're not even drafting for yourself.
a lot of team synergy comes from playing together. no matter how deep your knowledge is. if you make the right play that requires your ad carry to follow up and he doesn't and you end up getting killed, it doesn't matter how much you know. it's never definite because you don't know how people will follow up, both on the other team and on your team. therefore knowledge takes a backseat to teamwork. don't get me wrong, knowledge is still important. just not as important, and not as much.
when you play a solo lane, there are mostly things that are definite and not fuzzy like teamwork and synergy. who wins trades? what items will they get that will shift that balance? how dependent is it on skill, and how dependent is it on items? let's not forget how much more varied the hero pool is. and small knowledge deficiencies can result in a quickly snowballing lane. if i know exactly what to do and you don't, the lane is done.
i would much rather train up a support and have reserve solo laners than the opposite. it is much harder to get someone to learn all the requisite solo matchups in a few weeks and keep that knowledge at very high levels than it would be to develop support synergy. and even if you had a backup support, i doubt he/she would have enough games with the starting ad carry to have some synergy to where he could hop in.
tl;dr: because there are more people in bot lane, there is less static knowledge required and more synergy required, therefore it is easier to train up supports than solo laners. on top of that it is hard to develop synergy strictly for backup use.
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On March 28 2013 05:03 Mensol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:50 Alzadar wrote:On March 28 2013 04:29 Mensol wrote:the worst day of my life... HOW DID HE BACK? This is just a small, low res image so I'm not sure how we're supposed to respond, but I'm going to take a wild guess at what happened: Someone tried to interrupt Riven's recall early on in the channel while her shield was up, didn't break the shield and thus didn't cancel the recall (you need to deal damage to their health to break recall). edit: Your edit drastically changes the meaning of your post. Never mind entirely. ugh he got banned for bad attıtude and troll picks. i wrote that because annoying "BEST XXXXXX PLAYER IN THE WORLD" plug
Loads of streamers put that "best x in the world" rubbish in their title these days. It's all marketing.
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EPT
