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On March 27 2013 05:06 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 05:04 DonKey_ wrote:On March 27 2013 04:56 Alzadar wrote:On March 27 2013 04:50 Mondeezy wrote:On March 27 2013 03:46 DonKey_ wrote:
Vlad does have match ups he wins... Akali for example. I completely destroy Vlad every time I play Akali :S Did we discuss that new site Probuilds.net yet? I think it's super helpful to grasp top player builds and whatnot. Really hoping they can do something in tourneys with it, always find myself wondering what runes and stuff top players use. Yeah I don't see why that would be a good match-up, Akali will win an all-in for sure and she can force one at will with full ult stacks. Double dashes are a nightmare for Vladimir because it means you can't disengage with pool. My personal experiance was that lvl 1-5 I could make the cs gap enough that an all-in on me was unwise once she hit 6. Akali seems to deal poorly with pushers. I don't claim to be an expert though. Akali should wreck you in cs... You can't trade with her properly, she should be able to zone you really well. Vlad has no way to prevent Akali from getting every single cs while Akali has tools to prevent Vlad from doing the same(even a simple Q -> smoke on minions is a complete deny for the smoke duration). She's been banned in like every game so I forgot about her, but yes when I have played Akali vs Vlad it's been a freewin etc and also really difficult to play against. Takes a miracle to get to lvl 9 in a decent shape.
Well the trade between vlad e and akali q with akali in shroud goes in vlads favor, since he's both harrasing you and pushing the lane while you have to decide between the two. In fact should she chooses to trade without shroud, she loses far more in a overwhelming manner with autos and q from vlad factored in. Thats really the most signifigant situation pre 6. I aslo think post 6 vlad's dps and pool are being underestimated. As stated before though you guys may be on a higher level of play than me.
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On March 27 2013 05:19 DonKey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 05:06 Shikyo wrote:On March 27 2013 05:04 DonKey_ wrote:On March 27 2013 04:56 Alzadar wrote:On March 27 2013 04:50 Mondeezy wrote:On March 27 2013 03:46 DonKey_ wrote:
Vlad does have match ups he wins... Akali for example. I completely destroy Vlad every time I play Akali :S Did we discuss that new site Probuilds.net yet? I think it's super helpful to grasp top player builds and whatnot. Really hoping they can do something in tourneys with it, always find myself wondering what runes and stuff top players use. Yeah I don't see why that would be a good match-up, Akali will win an all-in for sure and she can force one at will with full ult stacks. Double dashes are a nightmare for Vladimir because it means you can't disengage with pool. My personal experiance was that lvl 1-5 I could make the cs gap enough that an all-in on me was unwise once she hit 6. Akali seems to deal poorly with pushers. I don't claim to be an expert though. Akali should wreck you in cs... You can't trade with her properly, she should be able to zone you really well. Vlad has no way to prevent Akali from getting every single cs while Akali has tools to prevent Vlad from doing the same(even a simple Q -> smoke on minions is a complete deny for the smoke duration). She's been banned in like every game so I forgot about her, but yes when I have played Akali vs Vlad it's been a freewin etc and also really difficult to play against. Takes a miracle to get to lvl 9 in a decent shape. Well the trade between vlad e and akali q with akali in shroud goes in vlads favor, since he's both harrasing you and pushing the lane while you have to decide between the two. In fact should she chooses to trade without shroud, she loses far more in a overwhelming manner with autos and q from vlad factored in. Thats really the most signifigant situation pre 6. I aslo think post 6 vlad's dps and pool are being underestimated. As stated before though you guys may be on a higher level of play than me.
Vlad E? He's killing himself if he uses that. His E also doesn't deal nearly as much damage as Akali's Q ... And Akali can just auto the minions for pushing. Her healing's actually better than Vladimir's early on. No idea what the Akalis you play vs like to do but Vlad has to be incredibly scared because if he gets double Q'd at 80% hp he's dead.
Akali uses Q on Vlad -> uses shroud behind minions, hides there. Vlad has to stay FAR away because if he comes in close he risks auto mark proc -> Q -> another auto mark proc etc. Basic akali laning.
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This vlad discussion kind of intrigued me. He's very powerful lategame but has a bad lane phase vs a lot of current picks.. What do you guys think of running him with a support bottom and sending an AD top? With someone like Nami you ensure a safe lane phase and have some decent poke? You can safely
make it to mid and endgame where he's strongest..
Seems interesting to try out, just a thought.
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Trynd + nami can actually get really silly really quickly, I feel like lulu might be a better match for Vlad. (not that I feel like lategame Vlad is worth committing a support to, but to each his own)
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On March 27 2013 05:36 Mondeezy wrote:
This vlad discussion kind of intrigued me. He's very powerful lategame but has a bad lane phase vs a lot of current picks.. What do you guys think of running him with a support bottom and sending an AD top? With someone like Nami you ensure a safe lane phase and have some decent poke? You can safely
make it to mid and endgame where he's strongest..
Seems interesting to try out, just a thought.
I donno bro.I know i shouldnt be simpleminded about metachanges but doesnt sound like a good idea to me.I might be wrong tho 
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On March 27 2013 02:57 Keniji wrote:
there are some sites where you can put your champion with runes and masteries and items and calculate how much dmg you do, right? Anyone can post one of those for me?
http://lol.askmrrobot.com/
http://leaguecraft.com/
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On March 27 2013 05:45 Slusher wrote:
Trynd + nami can actually get really silly really quickly, I feel like lulu might be a better match for Vlad. (not that I feel like lategame Vlad is worth committing a support to, but to each his own)
That actually sounds hilarious, I'm gonna try it out tonight.
Yeah Lulu sounds like it'd work as well. Plus Vlad scales very well with items and could demolish a team lategame combined with an Amumu or something.
Like I said, just a thought
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Eh, wouldn't the site be better off showing champs rather than builds and win/loss? Doesn't mean anything if you don't know what they were playing.
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On March 27 2013 05:54 Alaric wrote:
Eh, wouldn't the site be better off showing champs rather than builds and win/loss? Doesn't mean anything if you don't know what they were playing.
I think probuilds is sorted by champions at the top. At least it was for that image earlier that you didn't quote :/
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On March 27 2013 05:36 Mondeezy wrote:
This vlad discussion kind of intrigued me. He's very powerful lategame but has a bad lane phase vs a lot of current picks.. What do you guys think of running him with a support bottom and sending an AD top? With someone like Nami you ensure a safe lane phase and have some decent poke? You can safely
make it to mid and endgame where he's strongest..
Seems interesting to try out, just a thought.
Vlad's early game is mostly weak because of Transfusion's long cooldown, which makes it impossible to engage in lengthy trades with anyone. Putting him in a lane where his opponent has ranged damage on a ~1 second cooldown (auto attacks) makes this even worse.
Vayne top lane is actually a nightmare lane for Vladimir. Seriously she just walks up to you and starts hitting you, you can Q but then she keeps hitting you and you've got nothing, you can pool but then she keeps hitting you... You are tremendously reliant on your jungler to keep your opponent scared of all-ins, but ranged champions can go hard without being very committed.
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On March 27 2013 05:54 Alaric wrote:
Eh, wouldn't the site be better off showing champs rather than builds and win/loss? Doesn't mean anything if you don't know what they were playing.
You go to the site and pick a champion, it shows the recent builds by pros playing that champ (about 15 per page I think). Clicking on one instance shows the game stats, all players and their champions on both sides, and the build order that they got the items. It's very comprehensive.
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I "wat"'d at someone saying that Vlad beats Akali...
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On March 27 2013 06:07 Dusty wrote:
I "wat"'d at someone saying that Vlad beats Akali...
I was just giving my experiance ... No need to ridicule me.
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I don't think there's anything really "beats" akali hard in a lane not considering jungle presence, like lee has been considered the hardcounter for the longest time, but the other day I saw someone pick lee mid into was a good 15-20cs ahead but after 6 he couldn't really trade with her anymore. Lee nerfed too hard and Akali slightly buffed in a sense that she doesn't require that specific runeset anymore, and ofc seeker's being somewhat of a dream item for a vs ad matchup.
Akali is also alot more faceroll than lee where you actually have to hit your Q :D
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On March 27 2013 06:18 AsnSensation wrote:
I don't think there's anything really "beats" akali hard in a lane not considering jungle presence, like lee has been considered the hardcounter for the longest time, but the other day I saw someone pick lee mid into was a good 15-20cs ahead but after 6 he couldn't really trade with her anymore. Lee nerfed too hard and Akali slightly buffed in a sense that she doesn't require that specific runeset anymore, and ofc seeker's being somewhat of a dream item for a vs ad matchup.
Akali is also alot more faceroll than lee where you actually have to hit your Q :D
Renek is a pain in the ass. Seekers Armgard helped a little though.. Lane lee has never really been a problem, it was more of jungle lee ganking and completely nullifying your smokescreen that made him difficult for her.
Would someone be kind enough to explain the interaction between LW and BC to me? I see a lot of players get one right after the other - does the armor pen % add up or something?
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On March 27 2013 06:18 AsnSensation wrote:
I don't think there's anything really "beats" akali hard in a lane not considering jungle presence, like lee has been considered the hardcounter for the longest time, but the other day I saw someone pick lee mid into was a good 15-20cs ahead but after 6 he couldn't really trade with her anymore. Lee nerfed too hard and Akali slightly buffed in a sense that she doesn't require that specific runeset anymore, and ofc seeker's being somewhat of a dream item for a vs ad matchup.
Akali is also alot more faceroll than lee where you actually have to hit your Q :D
I feel like Akali's pre-6 is really underrated. Free harass, sustain and a pretty solid escape, why is this considered weak? Any mana champion will run OOM long before they drive Akali out of lane, and she'll just keep chucking kamas.
Basically energy champions can't be bad in lane unless they're just really bad.
On March 27 2013 06:23 Mondeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 06:18 AsnSensation wrote:
I don't think there's anything really "beats" akali hard in a lane not considering jungle presence, like lee has been considered the hardcounter for the longest time, but the other day I saw someone pick lee mid into was a good 15-20cs ahead but after 6 he couldn't really trade with her anymore. Lee nerfed too hard and Akali slightly buffed in a sense that she doesn't require that specific runeset anymore, and ofc seeker's being somewhat of a dream item for a vs ad matchup.
Akali is also alot more faceroll than lee where you actually have to hit your Q :D Renek is a pain in the ass. Seekers Armgard helped a little though.. Lane lee has never really been a problem, it was more of jungle lee ganking and completely nullifying your smokescreen that made him difficult for her. Would someone be kind enough to explain the interaction between LW and BC to me? I see a lot of players get one right after the other - does the armor pen % add up or something?
Percentage reductions/penetration all effectively multiply with each other (which is weaker than if they added up).
e.g. starting 150 armor
BC reduces that to 112.5 (25% reduction)
LW penetrates that to 73.125 (52% reduction)
BC's flat pen penetrates that to 63.125 (58% reduction).
I think it's very rarely good to get both BC and LW on the same champion - flat damage will usually be better once you have big penetration.
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The thing that makes Akali's early lane phase livable is the mass pots opener.
Every time I Lux into an Akali I force her out of lane hard before she hits 6 if she's not running 9+ pots. If she is it's like totally different.
Honestly the all pots opening is dumb. I wouldn't call it overpowered, but I would call it anti-fun, and Riot seems to be on an anti anti-fun thing recently. If you run all pots and you're competant nobody is going to bully you out of lane, so the correct decision is to conserve mana, barely attack them at all, and make them waste the pots by never using them. So you get these lanes where nobody attacks each other for the first 10 minutes of the game.
Reeeeally stupid.
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On March 27 2013 06:31 Ketara wrote:
The thing that makes Akali's early lane phase livable is the mass pots opener.
Every time I Lux into an Akali I force her out of lane hard before she hits 6 if she's not running 9+ pots. If she is it's like totally different.
Honestly the all pots opening is dumb. I wouldn't call it overpowered, but I would call it anti-fun, and Riot seems to be on an anti anti-fun thing recently. If you run all pots and you're competant nobody is going to bully you out of lane, so the correct decision is to conserve mana, barely attack them at all, and make them waste the pots by never using them. So you get these lanes where nobody attacks each other for the first 10 minutes of the game.
Reeeeally stupid.
How does Lux force Akali off the lane? Granted I've only done Akali vs Lux twice recently but it didn't feel too difficult at all. Both times I won in minions, and even though it was impossible to allin the Lux I didn't feel like the early laning was bad at all.
Also about mass pots, it's good against sustained harrass, but doesn't do anything against burst. You also are weaker overall than a person with an item. They won't be attacking for a while, yes, but when a good situation arrives they can go for a few quick sets of harrass and then committ(committing is good against all-pot as long as you can win it).
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You just beat the shit out of her? Auto her relentlessly, E her every time its up, and Q her if she ever tries to get close to you.
As long as she's not opening all pots you should be easily doubling her CS till she hits 6, and then you have to start giving her the whole lane and farming from your tower if you didn't kill her once or twice.
If she's opening all pots though you can't do it. You'll run out of mana before she runs out of pots, so the correct decision is to just not attack her at all. (Which is STUPID and anti-fun, my point)
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On March 27 2013 06:34 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 06:31 Ketara wrote:
The thing that makes Akali's early lane phase livable is the mass pots opener.
Every time I Lux into an Akali I force her out of lane hard before she hits 6 if she's not running 9+ pots. If she is it's like totally different.
Honestly the all pots opening is dumb. I wouldn't call it overpowered, but I would call it anti-fun, and Riot seems to be on an anti anti-fun thing recently. If you run all pots and you're competant nobody is going to bully you out of lane, so the correct decision is to conserve mana, barely attack them at all, and make them waste the pots by never using them. So you get these lanes where nobody attacks each other for the first 10 minutes of the game.
Reeeeally stupid. How does Lux force Akali off the lane? Granted I've only done Akali vs Lux twice recently but it didn't feel too difficult at all. Both times I won in minions, and even though it was impossible to allin the Lux I didn't feel like the early laning was bad at all.
if they don't start mass pot you don't have to do much more than auto attack, they can't retaliate since akali has no gap close pre 6 and if she walks at you it's a free q
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EPT
