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On March 27 2013 05:54 Mondeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 05:45 Slusher wrote:
Trynd + nami can actually get really silly really quickly, I feel like lulu might be a better match for Vlad. (not that I feel like lategame Vlad is worth committing a support to, but to each his own) That actually sounds hilarious, I'm gonna try it out tonight. Yeah Lulu sounds like it'd work as well. Plus Vlad scales very well with items and could demolish a team lategame combined with an Amumu or something. Like I said, just a thought 
Bloody Curse of the Sad Bullet Time?
I saw it happen the other day. Enemy team was up like 10 kills and had baron. My friends (I was spectating) landed ult into ult into ult, ace into win. It was actually disgusting hoe fast a 4.6K hp tank died.
Oh yeah, I'd be willing to chip in to write either a general support guide or maybe some for specific champs.
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On March 27 2013 02:14 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 01:58 Slayer91 wrote:On March 27 2013 00:23 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On March 27 2013 00:14 onlywonderboy wrote:On March 26 2013 23:08 Requizen wrote:
PBE, Udyr Tiger Stance DoT changed back to Magic Damage. Scary times indeed. Huh, that's an interesting change reversion. I feel like that's a total noob trap were people would build armor against Top lane Udyr without even realize he's doing magic damage. Seems like they were flashing the alarm for some of the people who were unaware, especially considering how common top lane Udyr is about to become. you know how much that having physical q and no mana back on w fucking destroys his top lane right? he is still nerfed a whole lot top lane and 20 more hp on the shield isnt even close to making up the 100's of mana you gained from autoing creeps. he is still probably playiable with a magic q, but tiger stance already sucks at pushing and udyr already is easy to gank. tiger stance would almost be nonexistant if they fucked over top lane udyr as an already unpopular pick and make pheonix jungle even better and have similar burst to tiger to make sure absolutely nobody ever uses it. The mana is easily made up with a build tweak, isn't it? With the lower mana costs, you can grab some mana pots or even just an early Mana Crystal either for Sheen or pick up a Tear and get Muramana.
Easily? I doubt it, playable? Probably but you have to back more often and spend money you'd otherwise spend on defensive stats/ad on mana. Trinity rushes probably will be standard because sheen is pretty good and gives mana.
Maybe you can play way more agressive with Q max and E through creeps with a lot of warding now, instead of spamming w to sustain.
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On March 27 2013 06:24 Alzadar wrote:
Percentage reductions/penetration all effectively multiply with each other (which is weaker than if they added up).
e.g. starting 150 armor
BC reduces that to 112.5 (25% reduction)
LW penetrates that to 73.125 (52% reduction)
BC's flat pen penetrates that to 63.125 (58% reduction).
I think it's very rarely good to get both BC and LW on the same champion - flat damage will usually be better once you have big penetration.
Thank you sir.
So unless they're armor stacking up the ying, it's usually better to get a BT or BotRK instead?
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To hell with Vlad. If you guys are looking for a champ who can trade favorably levels 1-3, farm safely, and then safely poke for absurd damage at levels 5 and up, has strong mid game presence and still dominates late game (contrary to popular belief), then please let me remind you of our old metal man Viktor. It takes a lot of practice mastering his Death Ray, but once you do, the finesse of harassing your opponent while simutaneously scoring easy last hits is immensely satisfying and secures an easy advantage in lane. Any mid AP champ who tries engaging Viktor at even 60% health is gonna get combo'd hard with R<W<E<Q, especially gap-closing champs like akali and ahri. You can easily score double kills with Viktor's E and R if the enemy's jungler gets careless when trying to gank.
Viktor also brings far superior counter-initation to teamfights with his W than Vlad ever could. Try synergizing Viktor with Jarvan's ult for ridiculously one-sided team fights.
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Why don't more people play Nasus? I was just in a game where I was forced to play jungle and someone had already picked Taric, so I tried out Nasus. I started with a dorans shield vs Khazix and he really couldn't do much to get me out of lane. The amount of sustain and early tankiness is ridiculous. Also, with whither, your gank assist is really really good, and getting free tankiness from your ult is awesome. If the enemy had gotten some jungle assistance, I suspect things might have gone a bit differently, but still. Is there a reason Nasus isn't picked more?
Edit: I meant top lane. Don't even know how I made that mistake,sorry
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On March 27 2013 08:00 Dark_Chill wrote:
Why don't more people play Nasus? I was just in a game where I was forced to play jungle and someone had already picked Taric, so I tried out Nasus. I started with a dorans shield vs Khazix and he really couldn't do much to get me out of lane. The amount of sustain and early tankiness is ridiculous. Also, with whither, your gank assist is really really good, and getting free tankiness from your ult is awesome. If the enemy had gotten some jungle assistance, I suspect things might have gone a bit differently, but still. Is there a reason Nasus isn't picked more?
first: "forced to play jungle and dorans shield first "vs kahzix" doesn't really make sense"
second:" watch some lcs and you see that Nasus is almost ban/fp material nowadays.
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I don't really like Viktor OR Vlad mid atm, they just have too little roaming presence.
Vlad top is okayish. He gets shat on by good Renektons so that's why he dropped off a bit without seeing changes (he was seeing play in Korea at the start of S3).
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Viktor can roam super easily, cast E, clear the wave as it arrives, then go away while your opponent has to deal with yours. Plus his W and the range on his E allow him to cut retreat/countergank paths, and to initiate dives from afar easily. You won't be able to duel people if you get followed/caught in the river since you're very ult/poke reliant for solo kills though, but your AoE should be enough to be pretty strong in 2v2.
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I don't mean roaming potential as in waveclear, I mean his odds of actually killing sidelanes when roaming. A vlad gank is a lot less scary than a Kha'zix/Kat gank for example. Vlad's damage in a 2v2 is pretty scary in the midgame already yeah but there's no reason to actually commit to it unless you're seriously out of position.
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singed such a dumb champion ....
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On March 27 2013 06:59 Mondeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 06:24 Alzadar wrote:
Percentage reductions/penetration all effectively multiply with each other (which is weaker than if they added up).
e.g. starting 150 armor
BC reduces that to 112.5 (25% reduction)
LW penetrates that to 73.125 (52% reduction)
BC's flat pen penetrates that to 63.125 (58% reduction).
I think it's very rarely good to get both BC and LW on the same champion - flat damage will usually be better once you have big penetration. Thank you sir. So unless they're armor stacking up the ying, it's usually better to get a BT or BotRK instead?
Which characters do you get BC+LW except MF? Botrk is terrible on MF.
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On March 27 2013 08:51 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 06:59 Mondeezy wrote:On March 27 2013 06:24 Alzadar wrote:
Percentage reductions/penetration all effectively multiply with each other (which is weaker than if they added up).
e.g. starting 150 armor
BC reduces that to 112.5 (25% reduction)
LW penetrates that to 73.125 (52% reduction)
BC's flat pen penetrates that to 63.125 (58% reduction).
I think it's very rarely good to get both BC and LW on the same champion - flat damage will usually be better once you have big penetration. Thank you sir. So unless they're armor stacking up the ying, it's usually better to get a BT or BotRK instead? Which characters do you get BC+LW except MF? Botrk is terrible on MF.
Riven, if only to have something to build out of Brutalizer.
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ok, so i'm watching lots of pro games and i see lots of different lane swaps.
before there was just the good ol' top swapping with bottom, 3 minute tower dive. that was a very clear strategy that was easy to understand.
now i'm seeing adc+supp go mid, or even weird stuff like the gambit vs kt b where they kayle+eve mid vs. lulu+ashe mid and mf was solo for a while.
can we get some discussion regarding why they lane swap the way they do? now, obviously it varies depending on the match and there may be a core strategy somewhere in place but i was trying to figure out the strategic benefits of lane swapping...
also watching the chauster interview made me loathe the title "shot-caller." captain sounds like a great title. same with team leader. communication is by far one of the most critical things in team play in this game and it's naive to think that one guy giving every single order for the team is the best option.
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On March 27 2013 08:49 Serelitz wrote:
I don't mean roaming potential as in waveclear, I mean his odds of actually killing sidelanes when roaming. A vlad gank is a lot less scary than a Kha'zix/Kat gank for example. Vlad's damage in a 2v2 is pretty scary in the midgame already yeah but there's no reason to actually commit to it unless you're seriously out of position.
Hm...
I don't see that many people gank before they are reasonably high level, and Vlad's lvl 6+ ganks(esp lvl 9) are actually extremely scary. Just because he doesn't gank as well as Kha'Zix doesn't mean his ganks are bad. For example a standard situation of bottom lane pushed to your turret -> You come from the river and ult them, QE them, W slow them, QE again... It's really good.
Vlad also dives far better than Khazix, he's one of the very best tower dive gankers in the entire game.
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On March 27 2013 09:08 kainzero wrote:
ok, so i'm watching lots of pro games and i see lots of different lane swaps.
before there was just the good ol' top swapping with bottom, 3 minute tower dive. that was a very clear strategy that was easy to understand.
now i'm seeing adc+supp go mid, or even weird stuff like the gambit vs kt b where they kayle+eve mid vs. lulu+ashe mid and mf was solo for a while.
can we get some discussion regarding why they lane swap the way they do? now, obviously it varies depending on the match and there may be a core strategy somewhere in place but i was trying to figure out the strategic benefits of lane swapping...
also watching the chauster interview made me loathe the title "shot-caller." captain sounds like a great title. same with team leader. communication is by far one of the most critical things in team play in this game and it's naive to think that one guy giving every single order for the team is the best option.
I think one guy giving all the orders is the best way to do it. For a game like league, where slipping up once can snowball the game away from you, you can't have team indecision. Besides, look at GG. Only Alex talks during games, and look how successful they are.
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True, best way to organize something like that is to have one guy deciding, and everyone knowing what they do. They can then feed the deciding guy the information he needs, and he makes the tactical calls. There is a reason that every military in history uses this sort of system. This obviously does not mean he has to micromanage everything, usually in lol the "decision" is something like "we go to drake" or simply "fight now!", sometimes also "kill xyz", though that can be an edge case here. The rest of the team still has to use their skills and know how the rest of their team will probably use their skills to achieve maximum synergy, but they don't need to also have added useless dissonance regarding their tactical goals in a given situation.
A team will always be more effective if they all try to accomplish the same goal, even if that goal might not be the ideal one. The next step would obviously be to try to improve the quality of the goal they try to improve, but the way to do that is to either get a more knowledgable person to call the shots, or to make the person calling the shots more knowledgeable, not to have a random system where 3 people try to call different things and noone knows what to do.
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Lane swaps usually occur for the reason of 'can we allocate safe farm to certain champs, while denying enemy carry's their farm?', lane swap was simply the solution to this problem.
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If you look at it from an even more basic level, the team initiating the laneswap wants to gain some by doing it. This "something" is usually either producing a positive farm difference, changing the enemy teams farm allocation to be less favorable, controlling /gaining some objective, gaining map control in an area, occupying the jungler or something along those lines. It is often quite easy to see what they hope to gain by swapping the lanes the way they do, even if it does not work out. Getting random kills is usually not something aimed for, a good strategy should produce an advantage even if the enemy reacts correctly to avoid being killed.
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On March 27 2013 09:08 kainzero wrote:
ok, so i'm watching lots of pro games and i see lots of different lane swaps.
before there was just the good ol' top swapping with bottom, 3 minute tower dive. that was a very clear strategy that was easy to understand.
now i'm seeing adc+supp go mid, or even weird stuff like the gambit vs kt b where they kayle+eve mid vs. lulu+ashe mid and mf was solo for a while.
can we get some discussion regarding why they lane swap the way they do? now, obviously it varies depending on the match and there may be a core strategy somewhere in place but i was trying to figure out the strategic benefits of lane swapping...
also watching the chauster interview made me loathe the title "shot-caller." captain sounds like a great title. same with team leader. communication is by far one of the most critical things in team play in this game and it's naive to think that one guy giving every single order for the team is the best option.
The idea of adc+supp mid is still the same as when they went top. The goal is to kill tower fast to gain map control, and deny as much farm as possible to the solo lane in the process. The difference is that the mid tower holds more map control than the top or bottom towers. The strategy is still champion specific to a degree, in that solos with better minion wave clear deal with it better than those who do not.
The KT B/Gambit game in particular had Zed force Gragas to back before he could go to bot lane, which then resulted in Zed and MF killing bot tower at ~3:30. They then swapped MF with Eve to better hold Gambits pushing in mid lane.
Edit: Having Eve always missing from bot lane until the wave hit tower put more pressure on the rest of the map for Gambit.
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On March 27 2013 08:38 Alaric wrote:
Viktor can roam super easily, cast E, clear the wave as it arrives, then go away while your opponent has to deal with yours. Plus his W and the range on his E allow him to cut retreat/countergank paths, and to initiate dives from afar easily. You won't be able to duel people if you get followed/caught in the river since you're very ult/poke reliant for solo kills though, but your AoE should be enough to be pretty strong in 2v2.
You can duel fairly well to be honest.
Viktor just isn't as good anymore because he can't abuse people in lane with the advent of the super pot starts. Since he can't capitalize on move speed as much anymore, I just don't feel like he works as well.
Annie feels better in all ways except for the long range poke. Tibbers just out matches Chaos Storm so hard. =/
That said, I want to experiment with different stuff for Viktor. I've tried RoA on him, which I like for the mana and the mid game power (~20 mine), but it makes awkward timings for the augment and his RoA. Idk
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EPT
