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On March 05 2013 06:07 Lounge wrote:
I think they could get away with splitting it into two items. One with attack speed and the health/life steal passive on hit, and the other with the active and AD.
"AD casters" build the DFG version, and AD carries build the anti-warmogs version
This is a really really good idea imo.
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On March 05 2013 06:29 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 06:07 Lounge wrote:
I think they could get away with splitting it into two items. One with attack speed and the health/life steal passive on hit, and the other with the active and AD.
"AD casters" build the DFG version, and AD carries build the anti-warmogs version This is a really really good idea imo.
bilgewater already existed as the "ad caster" version of DFG.
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United States23745 Posts
On March 05 2013 06:07 JonGalt wrote:
Does anyone else feel like the past twoish weeks of the GD have been dedicated to about 80% bork talk interspersed with Pokemon, Quinn, and a few random thoughts?
Edit: Typo. Typed BotRK instead of bork. Silly me.
I mean it's a pretty significant item change, there was talk about it's potential impact on the game before it was released and of course now that it's been released the ramifications of almost every AA reliant AD champion buying it. There was probably just as much talk about Pre-Season Black Cleaver and League of Warmogs.
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On March 05 2013 06:34 Nos- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 06:29 Serelitz wrote:On March 05 2013 06:07 Lounge wrote:
I think they could get away with splitting it into two items. One with attack speed and the health/life steal passive on hit, and the other with the active and AD.
"AD casters" build the DFG version, and AD carries build the anti-warmogs version This is a really really good idea imo. bilgewater already existed as the "ad caster" version of DFG.
Except it did shit for dmg and was only used for a slow. If they buffed Bilgewater to like 10% max hp or something then it would be comparable, not this 100magic dmg, that turns into like 70dmg after resists.
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On March 05 2013 06:07 JonGalt wrote:
Does anyone else feel like the past twoish weeks of the GD have been dedicated to about 80% bork talk interspersed with Pokemon, Quinn, and a few random thoughts?
Edit: Typo. Typed BotRK instead of bork. Silly me.
Agreed. Wish we could have some more discussion on Quinn. Everyone already knows Bork is OP and will get nerfed soon, I'd be more interested to hear what people have to say about the new champ as I either hear she's trash or is broken.
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On March 05 2013 06:34 Nos- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 06:29 Serelitz wrote:On March 05 2013 06:07 Lounge wrote:
I think they could get away with splitting it into two items. One with attack speed and the health/life steal passive on hit, and the other with the active and AD.
"AD casters" build the DFG version, and AD carries build the anti-warmogs version This is a really really good idea imo. bilgewater already existed as the "ad caster" version of DFG.
It does magic damage, does not scale, and is fairly weak because it's so cheap. Sure it has AD and lifesteal on it but after the gunblade nerfs in S2 it was never built on any AD casters and only made an appearance on Zed when Bork showed up in S3 because Bork was the *real* AD caster DFG.
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On March 05 2013 06:41 Mondeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 06:07 JonGalt wrote:
Does anyone else feel like the past twoish weeks of the GD have been dedicated to about 80% bork talk interspersed with Pokemon, Quinn, and a few random thoughts?
Edit: Typo. Typed BotRK instead of bork. Silly me. Agreed. Wish we could have some more discussion on Quinn. Everyone already knows Bork is OP and will get nerfed soon, I'd be more interested to hear what people have to say about the new champ as I either hear she's trash or is broken.
All I know is that I'm going to play the shit out of her this week, if for no other reason than to justify getting the skin bundle >.>
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United States23745 Posts
On March 05 2013 06:44 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 06:41 Mondeezy wrote:On March 05 2013 06:07 JonGalt wrote:
Does anyone else feel like the past twoish weeks of the GD have been dedicated to about 80% bork talk interspersed with Pokemon, Quinn, and a few random thoughts?
Edit: Typo. Typed BotRK instead of bork. Silly me. Agreed. Wish we could have some more discussion on Quinn. Everyone already knows Bork is OP and will get nerfed soon, I'd be more interested to hear what people have to say about the new champ as I either hear she's trash or is broken. All I know is that I'm going to play the shit out of her this week, if for no other reason than to justify getting the skin bundle >.>
There are worse reasons to spam games with a specific champ.
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United States15536 Posts
On March 05 2013 06:45 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 06:44 Requizen wrote:On March 05 2013 06:41 Mondeezy wrote:On March 05 2013 06:07 JonGalt wrote:
Does anyone else feel like the past twoish weeks of the GD have been dedicated to about 80% bork talk interspersed with Pokemon, Quinn, and a few random thoughts?
Edit: Typo. Typed BotRK instead of bork. Silly me. Agreed. Wish we could have some more discussion on Quinn. Everyone already knows Bork is OP and will get nerfed soon, I'd be more interested to hear what people have to say about the new champ as I either hear she's trash or is broken. All I know is that I'm going to play the shit out of her this week, if for no other reason than to justify getting the skin bundle >.> There are worse reasons to spam games with a specific champ.
She's the only AD I will play as soon as I figure her out (or someone more qualified does). So let's take care of business people.
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Cass still > BotRK when it comes to rushing Nash. Holy balls, I wasn't even there as the (pitiful) AD carry and they killed it in ~20s.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2013 06:24 zer0das wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 06:07 Lounge wrote:
I think they could get away with splitting it into two items. One with attack speed and the health/life steal passive on hit, and the other with the active and AD. The second one exists, it is called Gunblade. Still a good item, just no reason to build it now that Botrk exists, unless you're Akali. Even then...
It's actually sort of funny that Gunblade is still in the game, because for a long time it epitomized the design "must-buy on the people who get it, useless on those who don't"--something which Riot cited as bad design and used as their reasoning for removing Innervating Locket from the game. By that reasoning, Gunblade really should have just been removed from the game rather than being nerfed to where it is now.
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On March 05 2013 06:58 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 06:24 zer0das wrote:On March 05 2013 06:07 Lounge wrote:
I think they could get away with splitting it into two items. One with attack speed and the health/life steal passive on hit, and the other with the active and AD. The second one exists, it is called Gunblade. Still a good item, just no reason to build it now that Botrk exists, unless you're Akali. Even then... It's actually sort of funny that Gunblade is still in the game, because for a long time it epitomized the design "must-buy on the people who get it, useless on those who don't"--something which Riot cited as bad design and used as their reasoning for removing Innervating Locket from the game. By that reasoning, Gunblade really should have just been removed from the game rather than being nerfed to where it is now.
But.... my akali.....
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On March 05 2013 06:55 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 06:45 onlywonderboy wrote:On March 05 2013 06:44 Requizen wrote:On March 05 2013 06:41 Mondeezy wrote:On March 05 2013 06:07 JonGalt wrote:
Does anyone else feel like the past twoish weeks of the GD have been dedicated to about 80% bork talk interspersed with Pokemon, Quinn, and a few random thoughts?
Edit: Typo. Typed BotRK instead of bork. Silly me. Agreed. Wish we could have some more discussion on Quinn. Everyone already knows Bork is OP and will get nerfed soon, I'd be more interested to hear what people have to say about the new champ as I either hear she's trash or is broken. All I know is that I'm going to play the shit out of her this week, if for no other reason than to justify getting the skin bundle >.> There are worse reasons to spam games with a specific champ. She's the only AD I will play as soon as I figure her out (or someone more qualified does). So let's take care of business people.
AD, I don't know. BotRK, assuredly.
Between IE and BT, she can use both. She gets free AS to work with the IE, but her passive, Q, and Ult have good enough AD scaling to make BT seem very attractive.
BotRK seems like the obvious AS item for her, but I don't think she specifically needs an AS item early because you basically have a free 40% as long as you hit the right target. That said, aside from Q she doesn't have much pushing power, so Shiv might not be amiss.
I'll be trying to play her top with BotRK and FMallet as my core. Bruiser style, but her steroids should give her enough damage for mid game, and she has enough mobility to be a nuisance even without being a full on carry.
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I'm just saying bligewater existed as a parallel for this ad DFG you guys are all talking about. It's viability is a totally different matter.
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On March 05 2013 06:59 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 06:58 TheYango wrote:On March 05 2013 06:24 zer0das wrote:On March 05 2013 06:07 Lounge wrote:
I think they could get away with splitting it into two items. One with attack speed and the health/life steal passive on hit, and the other with the active and AD. The second one exists, it is called Gunblade. Still a good item, just no reason to build it now that Botrk exists, unless you're Akali. Even then... It's actually sort of funny that Gunblade is still in the game, because for a long time it epitomized the design "must-buy on the people who get it, useless on those who don't"--something which Riot cited as bad design and used as their reasoning for removing Innervating Locket from the game. By that reasoning, Gunblade really should have just been removed from the game rather than being nerfed to where it is now. But.... my akali.....
But if gunblade were removed, akali wouldn't be in the awkward position of "If she does too much damage, she is also completely unkillable unless CC'd because of how much life she gains while murdering everyone."
On March 05 2013 07:09 Nos- wrote:
I'm just saying bligewater existed as a parallel for this ad DFG you guys are all talking about. It's viability is a totally different matter.
It did 150 damage. A nuke has to do damage before it's worth taking into consideration for anything.
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On March 05 2013 07:12 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 06:59 wei2coolman wrote:On March 05 2013 06:58 TheYango wrote:On March 05 2013 06:24 zer0das wrote:On March 05 2013 06:07 Lounge wrote:
I think they could get away with splitting it into two items. One with attack speed and the health/life steal passive on hit, and the other with the active and AD. The second one exists, it is called Gunblade. Still a good item, just no reason to build it now that Botrk exists, unless you're Akali. Even then... It's actually sort of funny that Gunblade is still in the game, because for a long time it epitomized the design "must-buy on the people who get it, useless on those who don't"--something which Riot cited as bad design and used as their reasoning for removing Innervating Locket from the game. By that reasoning, Gunblade really should have just been removed from the game rather than being nerfed to where it is now. But.... my akali..... But if gunblade were removed, akali wouldn't be in the awkward position of "If she does too much damage, she is also completely unkillable unless CC'd because of how much life she gains while murdering everyone." Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 07:09 Nos- wrote:
I'm just saying bligewater existed as a parallel for this ad DFG you guys are all talking about. It's viability is a totally different matter. It did 150 damage. A nuke has to do damage before it's worth taking into consideration for anything.
Yeah, but if gunblade were removed, akali wouldn't be in any position.
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On March 05 2013 06:24 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 04:41 UniversalSnip wrote:
Skeptical@morellonomicon example. In the first place "value of the base stats" is only a decent benchmark if you calculate from most efficient like bf sword, which I assume you didn't since, second point, you included mana regen (don't do this) which probably means you got it from the wiki which uses the wrong method.
Agree with bly, the proof really is simple math, same thing that's made locket quasi-secretly op for a while now (although not anywhere near to the same degree). It's so simple I don't understand why people at riot apparently aren't looking at this stuff. I know they have the same spreadsheets we do, are they just filling them with extraneous data or something so they stop being useful?
Interpreting the data is important. Doing auto attack only damage calculations and ignoring the situations which actually exist in game make the item look a lot better than it is. Granted I would suggest it is op on bruisers since the extra burst is very valuable in murdering the backline, since ironically bruisers tend to have fewer ad scaling interspersed abilities, and since they aren't worried as much about late game item timing Also even with BotRK stacking health is still the best option. just get a bit more armor (ie rush randuins which is even more secret op than locket was[locket was never a secret] Also note that the counter to BotRK is sustain and not more armor. Armor will be shredded with LW and BC. Sustain will likely not be touched. Also poppy
Your post after they inevitably rape this item into an early grave is gonna be money. "Well, Riot, I really think you messed up on this one. It really wasn't that imbalanced, just a little op on bruisers. I wish you wouldn't listen to noob QQ from people with calculators about this. Also randuins is way better than locket, I have intuited this fact, no idea why you nerf it."
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United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2013 07:19 wei2coolman wrote:
Yeah, but if gunblade were removed, akali wouldn't be in any position.
Realistically, if Gunblade were removed you could rebalance her development relative to the power curve of other items like Triforce that would potentially be less troublesome.
On March 05 2013 06:24 Goumindong wrote:
Also even with BotRK stacking health is still the best option. just get a bit more armor (ie rush randuins which is even more secret op than locket was[locket was never a secret]
If Locket was never a secret, then explain the idiocy behind the fact that it took all the way until IEM Katowice for professional teams to abuse the obviously ridiculous item when it was busted day 1 of S3 preseason.
It absolutely boggles my mind that we didn't see Locket every game of OGN and G-League prior to that point.
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On March 05 2013 07:19 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 07:12 sylverfyre wrote:On March 05 2013 06:59 wei2coolman wrote:On March 05 2013 06:58 TheYango wrote:On March 05 2013 06:24 zer0das wrote:On March 05 2013 06:07 Lounge wrote:
I think they could get away with splitting it into two items. One with attack speed and the health/life steal passive on hit, and the other with the active and AD. The second one exists, it is called Gunblade. Still a good item, just no reason to build it now that Botrk exists, unless you're Akali. Even then... It's actually sort of funny that Gunblade is still in the game, because for a long time it epitomized the design "must-buy on the people who get it, useless on those who don't"--something which Riot cited as bad design and used as their reasoning for removing Innervating Locket from the game. By that reasoning, Gunblade really should have just been removed from the game rather than being nerfed to where it is now. But.... my akali..... But if gunblade were removed, akali wouldn't be in the awkward position of "If she does too much damage, she is also completely unkillable unless CC'd because of how much life she gains while murdering everyone." On March 05 2013 07:09 Nos- wrote:
I'm just saying bligewater existed as a parallel for this ad DFG you guys are all talking about. It's viability is a totally different matter. It did 150 damage. A nuke has to do damage before it's worth taking into consideration for anything. Yeah, but if gunblade were removed, akali wouldn't be in any position.
If Gunblade were removed everyone would realize that Spectral Wraith exists, is 1400g cheaper, and doesn't have a 2200g deadzone.
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On March 05 2013 07:31 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 07:19 wei2coolman wrote:On March 05 2013 07:12 sylverfyre wrote:On March 05 2013 06:59 wei2coolman wrote:On March 05 2013 06:58 TheYango wrote:On March 05 2013 06:24 zer0das wrote:On March 05 2013 06:07 Lounge wrote:
I think they could get away with splitting it into two items. One with attack speed and the health/life steal passive on hit, and the other with the active and AD. The second one exists, it is called Gunblade. Still a good item, just no reason to build it now that Botrk exists, unless you're Akali. Even then... It's actually sort of funny that Gunblade is still in the game, because for a long time it epitomized the design "must-buy on the people who get it, useless on those who don't"--something which Riot cited as bad design and used as their reasoning for removing Innervating Locket from the game. By that reasoning, Gunblade really should have just been removed from the game rather than being nerfed to where it is now. But.... my akali..... But if gunblade were removed, akali wouldn't be in the awkward position of "If she does too much damage, she is also completely unkillable unless CC'd because of how much life she gains while murdering everyone." On March 05 2013 07:09 Nos- wrote:
I'm just saying bligewater existed as a parallel for this ad DFG you guys are all talking about. It's viability is a totally different matter. It did 150 damage. A nuke has to do damage before it's worth taking into consideration for anything. Yeah, but if gunblade were removed, akali wouldn't be in any position. If Gunblade were removed everyone would realize that Spectral Wraith exists, is 1400g cheaper, and doesn't have a 2200g deadzone.
Gundblade doesn't really have a dead zone imo, especially on akali. Also, gunblade is more slot efficient over spectral wraith.
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EPT
