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What's in the box?
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
![]() What's in the box? | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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samthesaluki
914 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
And yeah, it's not that Randuin's is broken, because it's still expensive with a somewhat harsh build-up, either in money or in slots (yeah cloth is a lot less than warden's but it's meh for a whole slot), just that it's slot-efficient. And it's far from enough to combat a BotRK really. Because you dump more gold in defense than they did in offense, while their sustain and the active give them a form of defense too, and they're still super strong if you fight them. Plus you can't kill anyone with that. (Of course compared to the sheeps stacking warmogs it's a godlike item.) Speaking of slot-efficiency, fuck Liandry's. Guise is already good as is, why should its dead-end item be that good? You don't even make timing choice anymore, since if you get Liandry's and somebody on your team get BotRK, the defensive itemisation requires both resistances rather than HP and they're way more expensive. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On March 05 2013 08:53 NeoIllusions wrote: You guys remember Double building Omen on Vayne last week in LCS? So ahead of the curve... RO was so obvious that game though. Not only did they have an AD carry doing autoattack damage and a jungler doing autoattack damage and a top (iirc) doing autoattack damage, but their AP mid (kayle) was also an autoattacker. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On March 05 2013 07:48 Two_DoWn wrote: Show nested quote + On March 05 2013 07:40 TheYango wrote: The thing is "hybrid items" epitomize that bad design which they used as reasoning to scrap Innervating Locket in the first place because by nature they're only going to be useful on those hybrid champions unless they're far past the point of reason on the cost-effectiveness curve. Then of course, you also have to ask the question--what's the purpose of a hybrid kit if you're going to design hybrid items especially for them? Presumably the reason hybrid champions exist is to explore the itemization dichotomy between AP and AD items, but when you design hybrid items specifically for those champs, it no longer becomes sensible to explore that dichotomy when they're "supposed" to be buying the hybrid items. Instead of having branching itemization options based on AD/AP variants, you have a linear build path along the hybrid items, so its more of the same again. Hybrid kits had a place back before AD scaling, where you combined a bit of the burst of an AP caster with a bit of the sustained damage of an AD. Now? No reason for them to exist since everyone and their mother has an AD ratio on their skills. Well, the fact is you probably need at least 1 hybrid item for a hybrid champ to be viable. It would put them in the situation that AD carries mostly are in where you need 1 AD + 1 AS item to be relevant (which is why BOTRK is good for them because it gives both, in decent amounts, basically BOTRK is to AD carries what Nashors is to Kayle). Just imagine, for instance, if Akali needed to get BT + a Needlessly large rod item to have relevant damage, or Kayle needed Liandrys + Zephyr. Essentially they would have the power curve of an AD Carry, but you don't want to have two characters like that (that is why no one played old Nasus and is why even though some AD Carries are situationally very strong Solomid they are not common there either) On March 05 2013 08:12 Amui wrote: Show nested quote + On March 05 2013 07:48 Two_DoWn wrote: On March 05 2013 07:40 TheYango wrote: The thing is "hybrid items" epitomize that bad design which they used as reasoning to scrap Innervating Locket in the first place because by nature they're only going to be useful on those hybrid champions unless they're far past the point of reason on the cost-effectiveness curve. Then of course, you also have to ask the question--what's the purpose of a hybrid kit if you're going to design hybrid items especially for them? Presumably the reason hybrid champions exist is to explore the itemization dichotomy between AP and AD items, but when you design hybrid items specifically for those champs, it no longer becomes sensible to explore that dichotomy when they're "supposed" to be buying the hybrid items. Instead of having branching itemization options based on AD/AP variants, you have a linear build path along the hybrid items, so its more of the same again. Hybrid kits had a place back before AD scaling, where you combined a bit of the burst of an AP caster with a bit of the sustained damage of an AD. Now? No reason for them to exist since everyone and their mother has an AD ratio on their skills. Hybrid kits I think would be easier to design if an item or two were added to help out hybrid itemization. In terms of scaling, IIRC only like skarner jax, and kayle (nidalee?) have kits that support using gunblade as a damage item(poppy/akali it's used primarily for the huge amount of spellvamp. The other hybrid items are rageblade, and nashor's(debateable), both of which benefit autoattackers primarily. I think the problem with making a hybrid kit is that with the current itemization, you'll basically build gunblade, and then you're stuck with itemization which forces you to go one of two build paths, in addition to forcing an autoattack based kit if you want to take full advantage of dual scaling. Also, Trinity Force could be an option for some. The thing about hybrid kits is like I said above, you want to be able to be fairly strong early, so Gunblade>Tanky is exactly what they want to try and do. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On March 05 2013 09:06 Alaric wrote: I hope Neo is actually using some secret arcane of sarcasm. And yeah, it's not that Randuin's is broken, because it's still expensive with a somewhat harsh build-up, either in money or in slots (yeah cloth is a lot less than warden's but it's meh for a whole slot), just that it's slot-efficient. And it's far from enough to combat a BotRK really. Because you dump more gold in defense than they did in offense, while their sustain and the active give them a form of defense too, and they're still super strong if you fight them. Plus you can't kill anyone with that. (Of course compared to the sheeps stacking warmogs it's a godlike item.) Speaking of slot-efficiency, fuck Liandry's. Guise is already good as is, why should its dead-end item be that good? You don't even make timing choice anymore, since if you get Liandry's and somebody on your team get BotRK, the defensive itemisation requires both resistances rather than HP and they're way more expensive. Guise and Brut should have been left as they were S2. Also, I just realized that BOTRK is alot like the old black cleaver. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
i also play really dumb heroes in 3v3 like nami and soraka, and randuins is usually my 2nd or 3rd item. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Oh how things change. | ||
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JBright
Vancouver14381 Posts
On March 05 2013 09:06 Alaric wrote: I hope Neo is actually using some secret arcane of sarcasm. And yeah, it's not that Randuin's is broken, because it's still expensive with a somewhat harsh build-up, either in money or in slots (yeah cloth is a lot less than warden's but it's meh for a whole slot), just that it's slot-efficient. And it's far from enough to combat a BotRK really. Because you dump more gold in defense than they did in offense, while their sustain and the active give them a form of defense too, and they're still super strong if you fight them. Plus you can't kill anyone with that. (Of course compared to the sheeps stacking warmogs it's a godlike item.) Speaking of slot-efficiency, fuck Liandry's. Guise is already good as is, why should its dead-end item be that good? You don't even make timing choice anymore, since if you get Liandry's and somebody on your team get BotRK, the defensive itemisation requires both resistances rather than HP and they're way more expensive. SK built 5 Randuins against EG in Week 1 of EU LCS....EU at least 3 weeks ahead of NA scene. | ||
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rhs408
United States904 Posts
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xPulsAr
Japan107 Posts
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
On March 05 2013 10:35 xPulsAr wrote: The only reason they buffed BotRK / Bork is because it rapes splitpusher, I guess? It was their solution to HP stacking. They just created a whole new monster to deal with now. | ||
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
On March 05 2013 10:13 rhs408 wrote: KTA playing KTB right now, ssumday went AP tryn but after building nahsors and CDR boots, he bought BF sword into IE... interesting... His autoattacks actually hurt then. | ||
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Nobu
Spain550 Posts
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
On March 05 2013 10:37 jpak wrote: Show nested quote + On March 05 2013 10:13 rhs408 wrote: KTA playing KTB right now, ssumday went AP tryn but after building nahsors and CDR boots, he bought BF sword into IE... interesting... His autoattacks actually hurt then. Build him for max CDR and then get AD so his AA's are fearsome and not something you want to sit next to. Before his nerfs I was alrdy considering getting IE so his passive 35% crit wasn't wasted and LW so his spin had real penetration/dmg potential. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2013 08:53 NeoIllusions wrote: You guys remember Double building Omen on Vayne last week in LCS? So ahead of the curve... I'm pretty sure GD was discussing Randuin's as an appropriate 6th defensive item quite a while ago. On March 05 2013 09:04 AsnSensation wrote: So Westdoor finally got out of his slave contract and is part of a team with Lantyr and Albis now? How good are they? Didn't have any time to watch chinese/taiwanese LoL these past weeks. I haven't watched Lantyr in like 8 months, but last I watched, he was basically carrying TT Dragons to whatever mediocre results they achieved. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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GARO
United States2255 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11632 Posts
Apparently you can't play top and start without a ward, that is suicide. However, on champions that don't like flask, i really have no idea what to start with. Do i have to do some retarded allin start with a red pot? Or 9 pots + 2 wards? cloth + ward + 2pot is not enough sustain to survive most lanes. So i am really at a loss here. | ||
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