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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
-aps are still good -people are getting it on all the same heroes, so it's not as if any single class of hero(bruiser, ad carry, what have you) got buffed immensely -everyone gets it and so no real advantage is had. in black cleaver days, everyone got it and it turned certain AD mids into unstoppable beasts while rendering other classes nearly useless. i'm not really sure what to think right now, does feel like the game is pretty much the same | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
or does that rule only apply to new skins because I'm slightly mad at riot for nerfs on Kayle and Garen ( the two most recent but probably alot more), basically champions that get badass new skins get nerfed in the next patch. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On March 05 2013 01:42 thenexusp wrote: If botrk gets people to stop stacking warmogs as much (and instead switch to armor heavy items like FH), it actually indirectly buffs the AP caster class as well But then if people start playing AP casters a lot and people have a lot of armor, then everyone buys BC and AD assassins rule once again! + Show Spoiler + It's like Pokemon and type advantages | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On March 05 2013 01:51 Requizen wrote: But then if people start playing AP casters a lot and people have a lot of armor, then everyone buys BC and AD assassins rule once again! It's like Pokemon and type advantages Pshh. Psychic. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35167 Posts
On March 05 2013 01:51 Requizen wrote: But then if people start playing AP casters a lot and people have a lot of armor, then everyone buys BC and AD assassins rule once again! + Show Spoiler + It's like Pokemon and type advantages Armguard and whatnot. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2013 01:26 kainzero wrote: i do have a problem with botrk. people call it overpowered, but... -aps are still good -people are getting it on all the same heroes, so it's not as if any single class of hero(bruiser, ad carry, what have you) got buffed immensely -everyone gets it and so no real advantage is had. in black cleaver days, everyone got it and it turned certain AD mids into unstoppable beasts while rendering other classes nearly useless. i'm not really sure what to think right now, does feel like the game is pretty much the same Degenerate gameplay where a single item choice or champ selection is trivialized is undesirable and to be avoided. Even if it's not a "balance" issue, you're losing gameplay complexity when you have a significant "no-brainer" item choice that's simply the best item to get in the vast majority of games. While some level of homogeneity is more or less required due to the low number of options in early game items (Machete, DBlades, etc.), having a particular item be the first major item purchase overwhelmingly often is an issue of gameplay depth. TBH in the case of an "overpowered" champion, this is really the prime motivating factor in nerfing them as well. Realistically a champ whose power level is out of line will simply be auto-banned every game so their actual effect on gameplay won't be that large--but having "no-brainer" bans/picks is the same reduction in depth as having "no-brainer" item choices. | ||
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Mondeezy
United States1938 Posts
On March 04 2013 19:40 zulu_nation8 wrote: theres a huge gap in skill among even the top amateur players on NA, I think riot needs to give more incentive for people to start playing 5s Like what? | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
More IP per game would be good, weekly (or whatever) tournaments for 5s teams in Plat or up, ward skins, featured streamer status, casted Noxus vs Ionia Style matches where the teams get to pick city-state themed teams, etc. There's plenty of incentive options. | ||
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
On March 05 2013 02:01 TheYango wrote: Degenerate gameplay where a single item choice or champ selection is trivialized is undesirable and to be avoided. Even if it's not a "balance" issue, you're losing gameplay complexity when you have a significant "no-brainer" item choice that's simply the best item to get in the vast majority of games. While some level of homogeneity is more or less required due to the low number of options in early game items (Machete, DBlades, etc.), having a particular item be the first major item purchase overwhelmingly often is an issue of gameplay depth. TBH in the case of an "overpowered" champion, this is really the prime motivating factor in nerfing them as well. Realistically a champ whose power level is out of line will simply be auto-banned every game so their actual effect on gameplay won't be that large--but having "no-brainer" bans/picks is the same reduction in depth as having "no-brainer" item choices. I think it's a bit harder to call something degenerative when the entire pro scene seems to hop aboard the FOTM-train so incredibly hard it's hard to tell if an item is really unbalanced, or if everyone is just copying everyone else. Maybe that or I'm not sold on BotRK being 100% unbalanced must be nerfed now item. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6221 Posts
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Lounge
537 Posts
On March 05 2013 02:22 Lmui wrote: Well, one of the ways to check balance is to check winrates of heavy botrk scaling champions. Champions like kogmaw, irelia, vayne, etc all experienced a significant gain in winrates since botrk was released. That's not entirely true either though. Vayne just saw a buff directly, and someone like Irelia might see a winrate increase because people are moving away from defensive health items like warmogs, which means her true damage is a higher percent of the targets health. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 05 2013 02:20 Zdrastochye wrote: I think it's a bit harder to call something degenerative when the entire pro scene seems to hop aboard the FOTM-train so incredibly hard it's hard to tell if an item is really unbalanced, or if everyone is just copying everyone else. Maybe that or I'm not sold on BotRK being 100% unbalanced must be nerfed now item. I agree. I was merely pointing out that "everyone gets it, so it's fine" isn't really a good argument because the intent of item design goes beyond simple balance. | ||
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JBright
Vancouver14381 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On March 05 2013 03:42 ticklishmusic wrote: The biggest problem I see with BoRK is that a team tends to get two of them and can rush Baron really, really early. Max 90 damage versus minions doesn't seem that great, but good god it takes him down fast. Well to put it in perspective, botrk is only slightly less than wriggles in terms of damage per hit to baron(more AD, less proc damage), and with the extra AS is significantly more DPS. The added benefit of also leeching a ton of health can't be understated. It makes it significantly less risky to do baron. Also, champs like udyr(tiger) and WW can almost solo baron at the 15 minute mark with botrk. Just sending a support to add in that little bit of tanking power and damage is already enough to duo it with ease. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
The interesting thing is that GameFreak kneejerked too hard on the balance and mostly killed psychic by adding steel and dark types, while at the same time adding good ghost and bug moves. I mean, psychic pokemon are still great, but now that's mostly due to their high base stats / deep movepools and not because they're psychic types. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On March 04 2013 22:51 Dusty wrote: I don't think I've ever in my entire LoL gaming history seen Jax lose to a cho'gath. I'll second Jax, I never really have problems with Cho unless their jungler spends an ungodly amount of time in my lane. | ||
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rhs408
United States904 Posts
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