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nunu has kinda been forgotten about as a support. Probably kus lulu and sona completely wreck him, but still.
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This is kind of weird, but I feel like Nunu is still alright as a support. If you play him with an AD with a slow (say, Varus or even Graves), it can punish out of position players pretty hard.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
The problem with Nunu is that he doesn't offer as much lane presence as a ranged support. Especially in the case of someone like Lulu. There's few options for counterplay against the ranged threat (poke/CC/etc), especially if Lulu is coordinated with her AD Carry to pressure the other side. Nunu isn't like Taric/Leona who have the hard CC to straight up punish misplays.
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On March 04 2013 02:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2013 21:12 Kontossis wrote:
Not to be too offensive, but it seems like to me that everywhere else except teamliquid that people are complaining because this BotRK is too powerful. Here, it seems like a debate that BT is better in some situations, even though high level streams has 6+ BotRKs each game. The "appeal to authority" argument isn't very good when it's NA we're talking about, since NA has a history of responding most fiercely to FotMs while also missing out on things that are actually OP. And in general, "high level" play on NA is weaker than "high level" play on the other regions.
I don't think other regions respond to FotM any less, but yes, we are pretty bad compared to other regions in terms of high level skill.
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If you go with AP Nunu as support his movespeed and E damage are so high that you can actually zone the other team pretty hard, it's quite powerful in the right situations and if you attack the creeps enough he won't even run out of mana. Needs a lane that wants to push, of course. His harrassing against tower lasthitting is top notch.
Lategame he'll still have his snowball + ult + bloodboil utility.
By the way, the league system has some problems if you just happen to lose the placement matches while winning the other, "less important" games. Or are they against higher level players?
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Hello, I got a little money I can spend right now. On the one hand, I wanna quit LoL and start playing minecraft in my spare time. On the other hand, I'd like to play some Lol. Problem here is, its so fucking expensive its not even funny. I now have invested.. hm 5 or 10€, cant remember. I got 48 of the cheapest heros and 5 rune pages with ok runes.
So if I get the champions bundle (kata, twitch, gp, shaco, blitz, anivia, kassa, heimer, karthus, corki) I'd have to pay ~20€. For the 7 page rune bundle about 14€.
Mincraft costs 20€.
So I really dont know if 10 heros are worth the same as minecraft regarding the pleasure I'll experience from playing it.. I mean, if I could every hero for like 50€ (the prize of a common computer game) I wouldnt say something, but the way it is I will never have all the relevant heros EVEN FOR ONE FUCKING ROLE. Its preposterous.
Oh man... I dont know. I think I'll quit Lol.
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I've invested a total of 0 euros in LoL.
You don't need every champion for a role. 2 or 3 are enough.
I don't see how 48 champions aren't enough, but hopefully you kept in mind that having 4 1350 ip champions you don't play is worth less than having just one 6300 ip champion who you play all the time.
Also feels like the wrong thread, and using the term "heroes" hints at a dota-vs-lol
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On March 04 2013 03:03 Shikyo wrote:
I've invested a total of 0 euros in LoL.
You don't need every champion for a role. 2 or 3 are enough.
In theory. In reality, having to play the same heros time and time again is boring as hell. I never understood how ppl like destiny can play draven all the time..
I don't see how 48 champions aren't enough, but hopefully you kept in mind that having 4 1350 ip champions you don't play is worth less than having just one 6300 ip champion who you play all the time.
Thats exactly the point. I'd like to play Lee Sin. But he costs 975 RP or something like that. So how should I know if thats worth it compared to ~340 RP for anivia or any of the other heros in the bundle..
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LoL was advertised to me as free-to-play, and it has remained as such.
I find myself not getting bored of playing the same champ pool, but rather just impatient that I can't buy a new one. Stupid 6.3K ip.
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On March 03 2013 21:12 Kontossis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2013 20:45 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2013 20:12 Kontossis wrote:On March 03 2013 20:07 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2013 19:41 Diamond wrote:On March 03 2013 19:31 wei2coolman wrote:
I think people building botrk forget that champs have AD scaling abilities, and rushing botrk ruins that; as opposed to BT. I've been using it on junglers. Ganks are much more scary. Also with champs like Nocturne, the attack speed is awesome to have. Also BF sword is stupid expensive. I was more hinting at ADC's going BotRK Pretty much every ADC should build this item first though. The only debatable one in my opinion would be Draven, and even then, he, like anyone that uses autos should build this. I don't even think it's debatable whether BT or BotRK is better on any other ADC. Graves; EZ; Corki; Cait, MF; and a few others probably optimize better with BT first. Also remember early midgame is the timing we're talking about; so power curve should be favoring BT over BotRK. The only ADC's that would benefit from BotRK first is if they have no or poor AD scaling abilities; or their main source of damage is auto attacking (in mid game). So Kog, Trist, Vayne probably decent candidates for BotRK first build. I'd say it's more of a minority of ADC's that should go BotRK first though. Early midgame is way in BotRK's favor. It only takes 1288 health for the active of BotRK to equal the damage of a melee range Q + R from Graves with a fully stacked BT and it heals you + steals speed + does a decent nuke. Ezreal's Q procs BotRK, only his R is benefited by attack damage... and only 70 from a fully stacked BT due to a 1.0 bonus AD scaling. I have no clue how Cait would be better with a BT... even before, Caitlyn would go IE into PD, with a vamp sceptor somewhere in between. Now, people are going BotRK into IE into PD which is a hugely effective build. Not to be too offensive, but it seems like to me that everywhere else except teamliquid that people are complaining because this BotRK is too powerful. Here, it seems like a debate that BT is better in some situations, even though high level streams has 6+ BotRKs each game.
It's just released of course people going to play around with the item. I'm pretty sure cait's headshot doesn't deal extra botrk passive dmg, thats wht bt or ie is better pickup early on. Not to mention if you are actually in range to use botrk active w/ cait, you're doing it wrong. Also low health targets become obscenely hard to kill, especially in league of shields. Can't really be snowballing kills if you do less damages the less health they have (it's like a reverse lee sin q).
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On March 04 2013 03:12 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2013 21:12 Kontossis wrote:On March 03 2013 20:45 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2013 20:12 Kontossis wrote:On March 03 2013 20:07 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2013 19:41 Diamond wrote:On March 03 2013 19:31 wei2coolman wrote:
I think people building botrk forget that champs have AD scaling abilities, and rushing botrk ruins that; as opposed to BT. I've been using it on junglers. Ganks are much more scary. Also with champs like Nocturne, the attack speed is awesome to have. Also BF sword is stupid expensive. I was more hinting at ADC's going BotRK Pretty much every ADC should build this item first though. The only debatable one in my opinion would be Draven, and even then, he, like anyone that uses autos should build this. I don't even think it's debatable whether BT or BotRK is better on any other ADC. Graves; EZ; Corki; Cait, MF; and a few others probably optimize better with BT first. Also remember early midgame is the timing we're talking about; so power curve should be favoring BT over BotRK. The only ADC's that would benefit from BotRK first is if they have no or poor AD scaling abilities; or their main source of damage is auto attacking (in mid game). So Kog, Trist, Vayne probably decent candidates for BotRK first build. I'd say it's more of a minority of ADC's that should go BotRK first though. Early midgame is way in BotRK's favor. It only takes 1288 health for the active of BotRK to equal the damage of a melee range Q + R from Graves with a fully stacked BT and it heals you + steals speed + does a decent nuke. Ezreal's Q procs BotRK, only his R is benefited by attack damage... and only 70 from a fully stacked BT due to a 1.0 bonus AD scaling. I have no clue how Cait would be better with a BT... even before, Caitlyn would go IE into PD, with a vamp sceptor somewhere in between. Now, people are going BotRK into IE into PD which is a hugely effective build. Not to be too offensive, but it seems like to me that everywhere else except teamliquid that people are complaining because this BotRK is too powerful. Here, it seems like a debate that BT is better in some situations, even though high level streams has 6+ BotRKs each game. It's just released of course people going to play around with the item. I'm pretty sure cait's headshot doesn't deal extra botrk passive dmg, thats wht bt or ie is better pickup early on. Not to mention if you are actually in range to use botrk active w/ cait, you're doing it wrong. Also low health targets become obscenely hard to kill, especially in league of shields. Can't really be snowballing kills if you do less damages the less health they have (it's like a reverse lee sin q).
the moment Karthus will shine again !
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On March 04 2013 03:10 Djin)ftw( wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 03:03 Shikyo wrote:
I've invested a total of 0 euros in LoL.
You don't need every champion for a role. 2 or 3 are enough.
In theory. In reality, having to play the same heros time and time again is boring as hell. I never understood how ppl like destiny can play draven all the time.. Show nested quote +
I don't see how 48 champions aren't enough, but hopefully you kept in mind that having 4 1350 ip champions you don't play is worth less than having just one 6300 ip champion who you play all the time.
Thats exactly the point. I'd like to play Lee Sin. But he costs 975 RP or something like that. So how should I know if thats worth it compared to ~340 RP for anivia or any of the other heros in the bundle..
You try them out when they're free. If you play alot, you get 6300 IP in less than a week.
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If your going to spend money on the game the first thing you should buy are rune pages. After that the 975 rp champs are your best buy anything less then 6300ip isn't that hard to wait for to get. Just do a lot of research on a hero before you buy them so you don't get burned by it.
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On March 04 2013 03:17 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 03:12 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2013 21:12 Kontossis wrote:On March 03 2013 20:45 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2013 20:12 Kontossis wrote:On March 03 2013 20:07 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2013 19:41 Diamond wrote:On March 03 2013 19:31 wei2coolman wrote:
I think people building botrk forget that champs have AD scaling abilities, and rushing botrk ruins that; as opposed to BT. I've been using it on junglers. Ganks are much more scary. Also with champs like Nocturne, the attack speed is awesome to have. Also BF sword is stupid expensive. I was more hinting at ADC's going BotRK Pretty much every ADC should build this item first though. The only debatable one in my opinion would be Draven, and even then, he, like anyone that uses autos should build this. I don't even think it's debatable whether BT or BotRK is better on any other ADC. Graves; EZ; Corki; Cait, MF; and a few others probably optimize better with BT first. Also remember early midgame is the timing we're talking about; so power curve should be favoring BT over BotRK. The only ADC's that would benefit from BotRK first is if they have no or poor AD scaling abilities; or their main source of damage is auto attacking (in mid game). So Kog, Trist, Vayne probably decent candidates for BotRK first build. I'd say it's more of a minority of ADC's that should go BotRK first though. Early midgame is way in BotRK's favor. It only takes 1288 health for the active of BotRK to equal the damage of a melee range Q + R from Graves with a fully stacked BT and it heals you + steals speed + does a decent nuke. Ezreal's Q procs BotRK, only his R is benefited by attack damage... and only 70 from a fully stacked BT due to a 1.0 bonus AD scaling. I have no clue how Cait would be better with a BT... even before, Caitlyn would go IE into PD, with a vamp sceptor somewhere in between. Now, people are going BotRK into IE into PD which is a hugely effective build. Not to be too offensive, but it seems like to me that everywhere else except teamliquid that people are complaining because this BotRK is too powerful. Here, it seems like a debate that BT is better in some situations, even though high level streams has 6+ BotRKs each game. It's just released of course people going to play around with the item. I'm pretty sure cait's headshot doesn't deal extra botrk passive dmg, thats wht bt or ie is better pickup early on. Not to mention if you are actually in range to use botrk active w/ cait, you're doing it wrong. Also low health targets become obscenely hard to kill, especially in league of shields. Can't really be snowballing kills if you do less damages the less health they have (it's like a reverse lee sin q). the moment Karthus will shine again !
BotRK Karthus? pls nerf
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On March 04 2013 03:12 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2013 21:12 Kontossis wrote:On March 03 2013 20:45 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2013 20:12 Kontossis wrote:On March 03 2013 20:07 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2013 19:41 Diamond wrote:On March 03 2013 19:31 wei2coolman wrote:
I think people building botrk forget that champs have AD scaling abilities, and rushing botrk ruins that; as opposed to BT. I've been using it on junglers. Ganks are much more scary. Also with champs like Nocturne, the attack speed is awesome to have. Also BF sword is stupid expensive. I was more hinting at ADC's going BotRK Pretty much every ADC should build this item first though. The only debatable one in my opinion would be Draven, and even then, he, like anyone that uses autos should build this. I don't even think it's debatable whether BT or BotRK is better on any other ADC. Graves; EZ; Corki; Cait, MF; and a few others probably optimize better with BT first. Also remember early midgame is the timing we're talking about; so power curve should be favoring BT over BotRK. The only ADC's that would benefit from BotRK first is if they have no or poor AD scaling abilities; or their main source of damage is auto attacking (in mid game). So Kog, Trist, Vayne probably decent candidates for BotRK first build. I'd say it's more of a minority of ADC's that should go BotRK first though. Early midgame is way in BotRK's favor. It only takes 1288 health for the active of BotRK to equal the damage of a melee range Q + R from Graves with a fully stacked BT and it heals you + steals speed + does a decent nuke. Ezreal's Q procs BotRK, only his R is benefited by attack damage... and only 70 from a fully stacked BT due to a 1.0 bonus AD scaling. I have no clue how Cait would be better with a BT... even before, Caitlyn would go IE into PD, with a vamp sceptor somewhere in between. Now, people are going BotRK into IE into PD which is a hugely effective build. Not to be too offensive, but it seems like to me that everywhere else except teamliquid that people are complaining because this BotRK is too powerful. Here, it seems like a debate that BT is better in some situations, even though high level streams has 6+ BotRKs each game. It's just released of course people going to play around with the item. I'm pretty sure cait's headshot doesn't deal extra botrk passive dmg, thats wht bt or ie is better pickup early on. Not to mention if you are actually in range to use botrk active w/ cait, you're doing it wrong. Also low health targets become obscenely hard to kill, especially in league of shields. Can't really be snowballing kills if you do less damages the less health they have (it's like a reverse lee sin q).
Cait's headshot doesn't deal any extra damage if you also crit, so I guess IE is just as bad as bortk as far as headshot is concerned.
Also cait is not necesserally doing something wrong if she's in range to use the active. Actually I think the ennemy team is doing something very wrong is cait is never in range to use it. I don't see high level games where both ad carries spend the whole teams without any ennemies within 500 range.
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One of Nunu's best skills are to be able to zone Bruisers getting to your AD Carry. I don't see enough nunu's ulting near their ad carry to zone out bruisers or if they still want to chase your ad carry, they get full charge on the ultimate. After, you can slow and bloodboil your ad carry so they can kite like no tomorrow.
I see a lot of bad nunu supports and he gets kind of thrown aside. If you know how to play him well, he's one of the best supports.
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On March 04 2013 03:17 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 03:10 Djin)ftw( wrote:On March 04 2013 03:03 Shikyo wrote:
I've invested a total of 0 euros in LoL.
You don't need every champion for a role. 2 or 3 are enough.
In theory. In reality, having to play the same heros time and time again is boring as hell. I never understood how ppl like destiny can play draven all the time..
I don't see how 48 champions aren't enough, but hopefully you kept in mind that having 4 1350 ip champions you don't play is worth less than having just one 6300 ip champion who you play all the time.
Thats exactly the point. I'd like to play Lee Sin. But he costs 975 RP or something like that. So how should I know if thats worth it compared to ~340 RP for anivia or any of the other heros in the bundle.. You try them out when they're free. If you play alot, you get 6300 IP in less than a week.
Also, it takes longer too learn a champion than it takes to earn the IP for the next one. You can start with cheap ones and free week ones, and then you just save up for some champion you find interesting. As long as you don't just impulse-buy champions the IP income is enough to provide a resonable amount of champions/time.
I treat the whole thing a lot more like a Pseudo-RPG progression system then a payment program.
I have spent a total of 10€ on LoL so far, and all of that was spent on skins, and it was more like a tip because i like the game rather then an actual payment.
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Pootie too good!4331 Posts
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On March 04 2013 02:57 Shikyo wrote:
If you go with AP Nunu as support his movespeed and E damage are so high that you can actually zone the other team pretty hard, it's quite powerful in the right situations and if you attack the creeps enough he won't even run out of mana. Needs a lane that wants to push, of course. His harrassing against tower lasthitting is top notch.
Lategame he'll still have his snowball + ult + bloodboil utility.
By the way, the league system has some problems if you just happen to lose the placement matches while winning the other, "less important" games. Or are they against higher level players?
AP nunu isn't as good as support/tanky/utility nunu.
- Reason is that Blood boil is his best utility skill and that doesn't scale off AP.
- AP for consume is useless as a support unless your baiting/ganking which is more of a early-jungle role.
- AP for snow ball is good, but again snowball as a support should be used for the slow which doesn't scale off AP.
- AP for his ultimate might be the only reason you would consider it but his ultimate is really unreliable that investing in expensive AP items makes it VERY crucial that you don't get interrupted and VERY crucial you use it at the right time and as a support, it's simply not your job to do damage.
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On March 04 2013 03:31 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 03:17 sAsImre wrote:On March 04 2013 03:12 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2013 21:12 Kontossis wrote:On March 03 2013 20:45 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2013 20:12 Kontossis wrote:On March 03 2013 20:07 wei2coolman wrote:On March 03 2013 19:41 Diamond wrote:On March 03 2013 19:31 wei2coolman wrote:
I think people building botrk forget that champs have AD scaling abilities, and rushing botrk ruins that; as opposed to BT. I've been using it on junglers. Ganks are much more scary. Also with champs like Nocturne, the attack speed is awesome to have. Also BF sword is stupid expensive. I was more hinting at ADC's going BotRK Pretty much every ADC should build this item first though. The only debatable one in my opinion would be Draven, and even then, he, like anyone that uses autos should build this. I don't even think it's debatable whether BT or BotRK is better on any other ADC. Graves; EZ; Corki; Cait, MF; and a few others probably optimize better with BT first. Also remember early midgame is the timing we're talking about; so power curve should be favoring BT over BotRK. The only ADC's that would benefit from BotRK first is if they have no or poor AD scaling abilities; or their main source of damage is auto attacking (in mid game). So Kog, Trist, Vayne probably decent candidates for BotRK first build. I'd say it's more of a minority of ADC's that should go BotRK first though. Early midgame is way in BotRK's favor. It only takes 1288 health for the active of BotRK to equal the damage of a melee range Q + R from Graves with a fully stacked BT and it heals you + steals speed + does a decent nuke. Ezreal's Q procs BotRK, only his R is benefited by attack damage... and only 70 from a fully stacked BT due to a 1.0 bonus AD scaling. I have no clue how Cait would be better with a BT... even before, Caitlyn would go IE into PD, with a vamp sceptor somewhere in between. Now, people are going BotRK into IE into PD which is a hugely effective build. Not to be too offensive, but it seems like to me that everywhere else except teamliquid that people are complaining because this BotRK is too powerful. Here, it seems like a debate that BT is better in some situations, even though high level streams has 6+ BotRKs each game. It's just released of course people going to play around with the item. I'm pretty sure cait's headshot doesn't deal extra botrk passive dmg, thats wht bt or ie is better pickup early on. Not to mention if you are actually in range to use botrk active w/ cait, you're doing it wrong. Also low health targets become obscenely hard to kill, especially in league of shields. Can't really be snowballing kills if you do less damages the less health they have (it's like a reverse lee sin q). the moment Karthus will shine again ! BotRK Karthus? pls nerf
Not quite, but Karthus in a team where multiple people have BotRK. Perfect synergy.
Another one would be BotRK Darius.
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EPT
