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Is this what we're doing now? Saying ridiculous things for ridiculousness's sake?
[Patch 3.03: Quinn] General Discussion - Page 145
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On March 15 2013 00:48 zulu_nation8 wrote: let's just make it so that nothing in the game is ever frustrating or obnoxious, everyone will always win lane and there's nothing "dumb" like manaless champions, free crit, stealth, or anything that makes the game remotely challenging. After all you paid for skins so you deserve to be good at the game, and the only reason everyone is not diamond is because of dumb mechanics in the game that apparently everyone aside from you has figured out how to play against. Deep breaths, in and out. Go make some tea or something. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On March 15 2013 00:43 zulu_nation8 wrote: Because something is unpredictable and seemingly hard to deal with, it means riot should do something about it. The players have no responsibility to learn how the game works. Considering that Riot removed crit from masteries, reformulated the pure RNG into pseudo RNG, and reworked Tryndamere to make him more consistent in the first place, yes, I think Riot would agree with that statement. Unpredictable power, especially early, is bad power. The main exception is when the unpredictable power is predictably weak (e.g. crit runes, lone crit rune argument aside) or it comes really late (so the game isn't as likely to be determined by lucky RNG). Personally if it was me and I wanted purer competition I would remove all RNG from the game and find some other way for autoattacks to scale. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On March 15 2013 00:58 Requizen wrote: Deep breaths, in and out. Go make some tea or something. Aren't you supposed to be playing HotS? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23464 Posts
On March 15 2013 00:58 Requizen wrote: Deep breaths, in and out. Go make some tea or something. he's not the mad one, he's just making fun of people whining about things they lost to and call it OP | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
It's the same reason why an AD carry with an IE isn't 'bad RNG' - it's going to happen often enough that if you're not expecting to be crit, you're just not thinking things through. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
In this case, Tryndamere's crit mechanic just feels inconsistent because Riot went out of their way to remove all other similar mechanics from the game (Dodge--and with it Jax's Dodge synergy/scaling, crit masteries, Season 1 Nimbleness mastery). There doesn't seem to be a good consistent reason why Tryndamere's crit-based kit should stay in the game while some of the others were removed (I actually liked the Nimbleness mastery a lot). | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On March 15 2013 00:59 Slayer91 wrote: he's not the mad one, he's just making fun of people whining about things they lost to and call it OP Or at least he's trying to make it look like it so he can be passive-aggressive with me. And yeah, a crit at level 2-3 kinda beats most damaging abilities champs have at their disposal, simply in terms of burst. I'm not saying it's OP, because unless he's running crit runes the Trynd player can't rely on it either. However, I'm saying it's obnoxious because it'd be the same as saying "maybe this spell does 50 base damage, maybe it does 100" and you have to play considering it'll be 100. It's not OP, it's annoying to play against and frustrating. Of course it's not either to the level of GP pre-masteries remake because it's harder for Trynd to engage on you (esp. since he uses E offensively), but that doesn't remove the annoying factor. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 15 2013 01:22 Alaric wrote: Or at least he's trying to make it look like it so he can be passive-aggressive with me. And yeah, a crit at level 2-3 kinda beats most damaging abilities champs have at their disposal, simply in terms of burst. I'm not saying it's OP, because unless he's running crit runes the Trynd player can't rely on it either. However, I'm saying it's obnoxious because it'd be the same as saying "maybe this spell does 50 base damage, maybe it does 100" and you have to play considering it'll be 100. It's not OP, it's annoying to play against and frustrating. Of course it's not either to the level of GP pre-masteries remake because it's harder for Trynd to engage on you (esp. since he uses E offensively), but that doesn't remove the annoying factor. I'll just say that if you ever play DotA and have CK on the other team, I hope you don't get an aneurysm when he hits you with a 4 second Chaos Bolt stun. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On March 15 2013 00:59 onlywonderboy wrote: Aren't you supposed to be playing HotS? Can't play anything at work  You guys are entertaining though. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On March 15 2013 01:35 Juicyfruit wrote: Removing all forms of RNG was a bad decision altogether, at least for high level competitive play. This sounds contradictory but really, risk management should be an important skill, and for spectator sports it's an important aspect of making the outcome of an encounter actually tense. If everything worked 100% reliably, then you could predict the outcome of an encounter before it even happens the actual plays just become going through motions. Eh, I disagree. Just because there's no RNG doesn't mean skill doesn't come into play. Keeping an eye on counters/stacks like Jax timing his ult passive to make sure he gets procs when he wants, or Annie watching her stun timer for example. These things are reliable, but also has a large impact on the outcome of skirmishes. Skillshots, active auras like Locket or Reverie, and utility spells such as Thresh Lantern all work reliably, but utilizing them (and landing them when aiming is necessary) is a level of skill, as is the counterplay of dodging skills and baiting cooldowns to retreat from them. Coordinating timings as a team, especially at pro level, also falls into this category. Things can have wildly uncertain and surprising outcomes without leaving it up to a coin toss or dice roll. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On March 15 2013 01:56 Requizen wrote: Eh, I disagree. Just because there's no RNG doesn't mean skill doesn't come into play. Keeping an eye on counters/stacks like Jax timing his ult passive to make sure he gets procs when he wants, or Annie watching her stun timer for example. These things are reliable, but also has a large impact on the outcome of skirmishes. Skillshots, active auras like Locket or Reverie, and utility spells such as Thresh Lantern all work reliably, but utilizing them (and landing them when aiming is necessary) is a level of skill, as is the counterplay of dodging skills and baiting cooldowns to retreat from them. Coordinating timings as a team, especially at pro level, also falls into this category. Things can have wildly uncertain and surprising outcomes without leaving it up to a coin toss or dice roll. Pro games are generally damn boring because everyone knows whether they can win their fights. You always know what's going to happen. | ||
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