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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
On February 21 2013 08:23 obesechicken13 wrote: Me: "Gonna main Kayle all S2. Kayle is weak. Can not lane well. I think I understand this game." Everyone else: "OMG Kayle so strong." Me: "I don't understand this game anymore." i felt this way too  | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On February 21 2013 04:21 NeoIllusions wrote: Ryze, Jax, Kayle all had some serious rework. They look nothing like what they did in the beta. TF had that Destiny/Gate change right before the beta ended. Nunu is closest to the original I think. Only thing that's changed to his kit is the values on his abilities. Singed was actually the first champion Riot ever designed (can't find a source right now but I'm sure I read it in multiple places) and he hasn't had a significant redesign that I can think of. EDIT: Should probably read the rest of the thread before responding to something 3 pages old. Also, this thread moves fast >.< | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
WAAAAAAH PS4 FINALLY <3333 | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
If you're supporting and you have zero GP10 runes, it's a bad idea. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's bad. It's possible to jungle without ever getting a machete, but that's bad. Spellsy's support guide for example has what like a dozen example rune pages, and every single one has GP10 quints. Not all of them have GP10 yellows, but GP10 quints minimum. When I have a bad support in a game I typically look up their runes afterwards, and I'd say the majority of supports in my losing games do not have GP10 runes. It is a significant thing, because that 5 GP10 in a 30 minute game means nearly 1000 gold, which is so critical to a support. So why is this bad? It's bad because it makes support more difficult to play than it should be, and is poor game design. Let me try to explain. When you start playing you have 2 rune pages. Most people I think typically make an AP page and an AD page, figuring that you have these two pages and they'll in a general sense cover everything. If you're anal like me you have 10 pages just for one champion, but that's not necessary. An AP page and an AD page will cover near everything. As you get more rune pages you can tailor things for specific champions. This is all well and good. However, if you want to support, you want to have a GP10 rune page. That GP10 rune page probably won't be used for anything but support. So it is severely limiting the diversity of your rune page options. This is compounded by the problem that if you're playing solo queue, you will have to support some games. A lot of people don't like to do it, but they have to from time to time. If you don't have the rune page in a game where you have to support, you are at a disadvantage. You might still win, but you're at a disadvantage. What this means is that if I'm starting ranked and I want to be able to reasonably cover all 5 positions, I have to have 3 rune pages minimum. One AP, one AD, and one support, because the support page needs GP10. This means I have to spend something like 9-10k IP on runes just to play ranked. What makes this worse is that nowhere does the game explain to you that you probably want GP10 runes if you're supporting. Yeah you can look up guides, but not every player does that. A lot of people probably legitimately don't know. It's not like playing a Jungler where hey, the recommended starting item is a machete. So, to sum things up. If you're supporting it is a really good idea to have GP10 runes. GP10 runes do not really work for other positions, and it's not expressed anywhere in the game that you want them. In ranked games, you will have to support sometimes. So you are required to figure out on your own that you need a support rune page that won't work for any other position, and then spend something like 10k IP on it, just because you will have to do it some of the time. This is stupid. If GP10 runes were removed and support was made completely viable without them, the game would be a lot better. | ||
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Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
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Mondeezy
United States1938 Posts
On February 21 2013 08:39 Chrispy wrote: I'm gonna go ahead and say Tankplank top with spirit of the lizard elder is going to become a thing. Its passive works with your Q and your individual cannonballs with your ult. What would the full item build consist of? | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On February 21 2013 08:36 Ketara wrote: So, I have decided I have a problem with GP10 runes. Lets see what you guys think of this. + Show Spoiler [Gp10 stuff] + If you're supporting and you have zero GP10 runes, it's a bad idea. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's bad. It's possible to jungle without ever getting a machete, but that's bad. Spellsy's support guide for example has what like a dozen example rune pages, and every single one has GP10 quints. Not all of them have GP10 yellows, but GP10 quints minimum. When I have a bad support in a game I typically look up their runes afterwards, and I'd say the majority of supports in my losing games do not have GP10 runes. It is a significant thing, because that 5 GP10 in a 30 minute game means nearly 1000 gold, which is so critical to a support. So why is this bad? It's bad because it makes support more difficult to play than it should be, and is poor game design. Let me try to explain. When you start playing you have 2 rune pages. Most people I think typically make an AP page and an AD page, figuring that you have these two pages and they'll in a general sense cover everything. If you're anal like me you have 10 pages just for one champion, but that's not necessary. An AP page and an AD page will cover near everything. As you get more rune pages you can tailor things for specific champions. This is all well and good. However, if you want to support, you want to have a GP10 rune page. That GP10 rune page probably won't be used for anything but support. So it is severely limiting the diversity of your rune page options. This is compounded by the problem that if you're playing solo queue, you will have to support some games. A lot of people don't like to do it, but they have to from time to time. If you don't have the rune page in a game where you have to support, you are at a disadvantage. You might still win, but you're at a disadvantage. What this means is that if I'm starting ranked and I want to be able to reasonably cover all 5 positions, I have to have 3 rune pages minimum. One AP, one AD, and one support, because the support page needs GP10. This means I have to spend something like 9-10k IP on runes just to play ranked. What makes this worse is that nowhere does the game explain to you that you probably want GP10 runes if you're supporting. Yeah you can look up guides, but not every player does that. A lot of people probably legitimately don't know. It's not like playing a Jungler where hey, the recommended starting item is a machete. So, to sum things up. If you're supporting it is a really good idea to have GP10 runes. GP10 runes do not really work for other positions, and it's not expressed anywhere in the game that you want them. In ranked games, you will have to support sometimes. So you are required to figure out on your own that you need a support rune page that won't work for any other position, and then spend something like 10k IP on it, just because you will have to do it some of the time. This is stupid. If GP10 runes were removed and support was made completely viable without them, the game would be a lot better. Honestly, if you're at the point where you only have two rune pages, you're probably not good enough at the game for Gp10 Quints to have a huge effect on your ability to play Support. If you're a super good DotA/HoN player switching to LoL, you definitely shouldn't need Gp10 Quints until well after you've earned the IP for that third rune page. For higher echelons of competitive play they're very important, but if you're new to ranked your greatest weakness is probably your lack of experience, not the 7845 IP you didn't spend to make a Gp10 support rune page. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On February 21 2013 08:54 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Oh curses, I come in hoping for a nice, interesting discussion, and darn if we aren't talking about GP10s again. It doesnt matter how many times you shoot the thing. It comes back as a ghost. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
A bit too bluish for my tastes. :< | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On February 21 2013 08:55 Two_DoWn wrote: It doesnt matter how many times you shoot the thing. It comes back as a ghost. A Yorick Ghost with a Morde-ulted Annie with Tibbers. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On February 21 2013 08:46 Seuss wrote: Honestly, if you're at the point where you only have two rune pages, you're probably not good enough at the game for Gp10 Quints to have a huge effect on your ability to play Support. If you're a super good DotA/HoN player switching to LoL, you definitely shouldn't need Gp10 Quints until well after you've earned the IP for that third rune page. For higher echelons of competitive play they're very important, but if you're new to ranked your greatest weakness is probably your lack of experience, not the 7845 IP you didn't spend to make a Gp10 support rune page. Well, I think the point is that they cause you to be 15 AP/14 Armor/ 75 HP/ 4.5% MS/etc worse off just so you have the income to be relevant for the duration of the game. This makes you feel weaker than you should. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On February 21 2013 08:29 Louuster wrote: He played Jayce the second game and did go triforce, which is really surprising considering he had played quite a bit of Jayce before on stream and never built the item. He built it when he streamed or so I was informed when trying to explain to people why they should not build it on him Re:gp10 they are situaltional. 3 gp10 quints provide 180 gold per 10 minutes. If you need the 200 to 300 gold or so you get out of other quints before you get your value out of them then go with the other quints. For me, engagements before 10 minutes are not rare enough that the choice to go for gp10 quints is clear. Especially vs an aggressive lane where the extra 12 armor may mean the difference between being dead and having 150 assist gold | ||
MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Eh. I actually prefer her WIP art over this. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
It's a shame, because the buildup for her was really well done. | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On February 21 2013 09:12 Seuss wrote: I don't mind the splash, but she's second only to Varus in terms of lack of personality. Her in-game model and animations are bleh. Valor doesn't so much steal the show as he is the show. It's a shame, because the buildup for her was really well done. I know right? The slow reveal by IronStylus was really great and her WIP art seemed so flavourful. But then her voice acting seems very out of place for someone who's supposed to be a rural Demacian girl and her splash art is focused too hard on the action pose instead of just having her against a backdrop and allowing her character to establish presence instead. Now just to wait for what her release skin looks like. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11731 Posts
On February 21 2013 09:01 cLutZ wrote: Well, I think the point is that they cause you to be 15 AP/14 Armor/ 75 HP/ 4.5% MS/etc worse off just so you have the income to be relevant for the duration of the game. This makes you feel weaker than you should. Which is exactly why they are not really necessary. Sure, they are useful, and i have them on my Support runepages. However, they are not more or less needed then other quints for other roles, and the disadvantage from having other quints as a support is not really much larger then the disadvantage from having suboptimal runepages on other roles. The fact that they make you weaker to give you more money is kind of obvious, that is the whole point of any gp10 thing in the game. It is not a bad thing, though. Having tradeoffs is a good idea. And i think the main problem is that the first post in this line equates causation with correlation. Your support does bad, and then you see he has no runes setup to support and assume that that is why he did bad. The much more reasonable explanation is that that guy barely plays support for whatever reason, and thus thinks that it is not worth it to invest IP into a support runepage. The same thing is also the reason why he is not very good at playing support, which as a result leads to him performing bad in the support role. | ||
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