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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On February 19 2013 14:08 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 14:02 Talack wrote:On February 19 2013 13:36 VayneAuthority wrote:On February 19 2013 13:31 Talack wrote:
Slight imbalance in the game makes it more interesting imo yea just like on starcraft where there was always a random starting spot with an extra mineral node. that's not a slight imbalance, that's an enormous imbalance in the map So is having to choose between a bad 2v2 lvl2/1 engagement vs. a laneswap. If you are blue team you can pick whatever botlane you want vs. purple has to decide all those other things while considering the ramifications of a lvl2 all in etc. If you are purple, and want to go Kog+Janna how exactly are you going to execute that?
Well, you could say blue side does the exactly same thing. Either they choose a bad 2v2 lvl2/1 engagement by putting their duolane top or they choose to laneswap by putting their duo lane middle. Early game dragons (pre-lvl 5/6) can be stopped with just wards, presence of duo lane isn't necessary.
edit: for what it's worth, I prefer having 2nd pick over having 1st pick. There are always counters (almost. Hello there Thresh!)
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On February 19 2013 14:20 jcc wrote:
I think i've developed a problem where I try to play with my RL friends who play support, but ive gotten so used to 2.2K + supports in arranged play that i want to rip my eyeballs out when my RL friend support lol.
Also the more I think of Quinn, i'm both excited and scared. Her ult could easily turn into a bait for your adc to dive in, do dps, and instantly die LOL. I look forward to many Quinns just dying.
I think this problem arises for everyone who plays with rl friends that aren't as well verse with the game as they are.
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On February 19 2013 14:32 zulu_nation8 wrote:
I'm of the mindset that whenever a certain lane dies to every gank, that lanes loses the privilege to receive any help from jungler for the rest of the game. One of the most annoying complaints I hear is when people say, enemy jungler has come x times and my jungler hasn't come yet, as if this game is soccer or something and a score is being kept.
On the other hand, if you normally play jungle, one of the most annoying complaints is when you're forced to give up cs (or worse, your tower) due to pressure from the enemy jungler, and your jungler blames you for losing lane.
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I find it really interesting that there are people who think that streamcheating is fun and cool and everything. I have already had that happen twice now. First, it was those guys who invited me to play ranked with them, and then proceeded to streamcheat whenever they noticed someone on the enemy team who they know streamed (which happens surprisingly often at higher gold/lower plat) They continued doing that even after i told them to stop. Needless to say that was the only time i played with them.
And now again there are people who brag with streamcheating in soloqueue in my games. Do these people have no integrity? Are there really people out there who think that cheating is a cool thing to do? It just completely boggles my mind.
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I think it's generally referred to as 'ghosting.'
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On February 19 2013 14:20 jcc wrote:
I think i've developed a problem where I try to play with my RL friends who play support, but ive gotten so used to 2.2K + supports in arranged play that i want to rip my eyeballs out when my RL friend support lol.
Also the more I think of Quinn, i'm both excited and scared. Her ult could easily turn into a bait for your adc to dive in, do dps, and instantly die LOL. I look forward to many Quinns just dying.
I think Quinn is suited for top lane vs. melee bruisers without several gapclosers; examples being Olaf and Irelia.
Edit; Reasoning being low range and low burst
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If you're top lane and you fuck up and die to a jungler gank, you really, really need a jungler gank (usually). Leaving somebody to stay fucked in a very snowbally lane instead of helping them get on even ground because of a mistake is ridiculous in my opinion. You should always try to do the best course to victory. Yeah, sometimes, it's better to focus on the other lanes, but I don't think you want a 5 0 100 cs akali while your Nidalee is 0 5 with 40 cs. lol
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On February 19 2013 14:49 OutlaW- wrote:
If you're top lane and you fuck up and die to a jungler gank, you really, really need a jungler gank (usually). Leaving somebody to stay fucked in a very snowbally lane instead of helping them get on even ground because of a mistake is ridiculous.
Snowballing top/mid is far easier than bottom. Bottom can at least break even/not feed/farm "almost" no matter the situation but once top/mid get ahead they usually stay ahead unless something drastic happens. Snowballing mid is generally what I like to do because they can roam with me after or assist bottom while I counter jungle/harass top etc etc...
That being said, sometimes i've gotten like 3 early early kills to mid and they still feed haha
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On February 19 2013 14:49 OutlaW- wrote:
If you're top lane and you fuck up and die to a jungler gank, you really, really need a jungler gank (usually). Leaving somebody to stay fucked in a very snowbally lane instead of helping them get on even ground because of a mistake is ridiculous in my opinion. You should always try to do the best course to victory. Yeah, sometimes, it's better to focus on the other lanes, but I don't think you want a 5 0 100 cs akali while your Nidalee is 0 5 with 40 cs. lol
Not really
Presumably you were doing something useful instead of ganking top lane while the enemy jungler ganked top lane (something like farmed or ganked mid/bot) so you should be even or stronger outside toplane. The problems with ganking top lane when yours is behind are:
1) because enemy top is likely to be pushing, there are 1 or 2 paths you can come from, both likely to be warded.
2) You can get counterganked and the chance that you will be sure you won't get counterganked without significant investment is very small. This is especially problematic when both teams are unable to do dragon, because oftentimes enemy jungler+top are able to dive your top, so there is little incentive for the enemy jungler not to be there when you gank.
3) Once the enemy team is strong enough to take dragon, trying to gank toplane without guaranteed success is just not worth it.
Yes, there is a chance for the jackpot countergank when enemy jungler decides to dive without sufficient warding. But it just doesn't really happen often enough.
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On February 19 2013 14:37 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 14:08 cLutZ wrote:On February 19 2013 14:02 Talack wrote:On February 19 2013 13:36 VayneAuthority wrote:On February 19 2013 13:31 Talack wrote:
Slight imbalance in the game makes it more interesting imo yea just like on starcraft where there was always a random starting spot with an extra mineral node. that's not a slight imbalance, that's an enormous imbalance in the map So is having to choose between a bad 2v2 lvl2/1 engagement vs. a laneswap. If you are blue team you can pick whatever botlane you want vs. purple has to decide all those other things while considering the ramifications of a lvl2 all in etc. If you are purple, and want to go Kog+Janna how exactly are you going to execute that? Well, you could say blue side does the exactly same thing. Either they choose a bad 2v2 lvl2/1 engagement by putting their duolane top or they choose to laneswap by putting their duo lane middle. Early game dragons (pre-lvl 5/6) can be stopped with just wards, presence of duo lane isn't necessary. edit: for what it's worth, I prefer having 2nd pick over having 1st pick. There are always counters (almost. Hello there Thresh!)
Well, when I talk about balance, usually it is only from the POV of watching Pro games (and scrims), and from the POV of what I think would make the game more entertaining to watch. In the blue/purple debate, I find it actually also translates to my games (with virtually no laneswaps), as well. That is three things: 1. The early doubles for bot are probably an even stronger advantage; 2. Toplane seems much safer at almost all times; 3. Its easier to see Blue steal (after the 1st clear) shenanagins coming, and you can always just sac blue and go push bot tower/take dragon in response.
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If you die once top to a gank, I'll come before 6 and hope it's not too late. If you die twice then you're on your own. It's ridiculous that top laners think they're entitled to get help especially when laners have 0 game sense and have 0 idea of what the risk vs reward is for ganking top. If it's a matchup like akali vs nidalee and the nidalee can't stop dying vs akali after one death then I'm all for losing the game just so he can learn that laning like that is unacceptable.
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On February 19 2013 14:37 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 14:32 zulu_nation8 wrote:
I'm of the mindset that whenever a certain lane dies to every gank, that lanes loses the privilege to receive any help from jungler for the rest of the game. One of the most annoying complaints I hear is when people say, enemy jungler has come x times and my jungler hasn't come yet, as if this game is soccer or something and a score is being kept. On the other hand, if you normally play jungle, one of the most annoying complaints is when you're forced to give up cs (or worse, your tower) due to pressure from the enemy jungler, and your jungler blames you for losing lane.
Missing some cs should never result in losing lane.
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At this rate, AP trynd will end up becoming fotm judging by how many more of them have showed up recently
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On February 19 2013 14:53 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 14:49 OutlaW- wrote:
If you're top lane and you fuck up and die to a jungler gank, you really, really need a jungler gank (usually). Leaving somebody to stay fucked in a very snowbally lane instead of helping them get on even ground because of a mistake is ridiculous. Snowballing top/mid is far easier than bottom. Bottom can at least break even/not feed/farm "almost" no matter the situation but once top/mid get ahead they usually stay ahead unless something drastic happens. Snowballing mid is generally what I like to do because they can roam with me after or assist bottom while I counter jungle/harass top etc etc... That being said, sometimes i've gotten like 3 early early kills to mid and they still feed haha
Mid should generally be the hardest to snowball since the lane is the shortest.
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On February 19 2013 15:17 zulu_nation8 wrote:
If you die once top to a gank, I'll come before 6 and hope it's not too late. If you die twice then you're on your own. It's ridiculous that top laners think they're entitled to get help especially when laners have 0 game sense and have 0 idea of what the risk vs reward is for ganking top. If it's a matchup like akali vs nidalee and the nidalee can't stop dying vs akali after one death then I'm all for losing the game just so he can learn that laning like that is unacceptable.
I agree with this; you can make a quick recovery top lane if the jungler has a strong early game and its not past around 7 minutes in where there is going to be a level and item difference by that point.
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Does Quinn strike anyone else as an attempt to make a different style of ADC.
Like, ez is kind of another example of this, an ADC who is somewhat weaker as a true ADC, but has another strength, in his case as an early midgame burst caster.
Quinn strikes me as a champ designed to roam and make picks with the scouting from her W and the single target power her ult gives her in skirmishes. The rest of her kit seems designed for skirmishing as well, at the cost of not really providing the same power in teamfights as champions like ez, varus, ashe etc. She feels very much like a carry who is designed to snowball the early game and fall off late, a kind of opposite to kog and vayne.
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Mid lane is actually the worst to snowball, AP carries farm so easily and its such a skill based lane that its almost impossible to deny a mid laner from being useful. A mid down a couple kills can easily still kill the other mid given the right matchup and cleverness. Top is the worst lane to get behind in as you cant just push/clear without getting crazy zoned. So 10 cs will build up to 25 then 50 pretty fast, top is also a very easy lane to gank. thats why securing top lane should be a very high priority. Second priority goes to bot lane if possible. Obviously you cant do much if your support is like pre-6 sona or soraka.
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Is it me, or do junglers just not gank bot lane anymore? Sure there's the occasional gank, but junglers these days always seem to be camping mid with visits to top, and the only time they come even close to bot is for a blue steal or something. Its pretty annoying, especially when I pick Thresh, they have Xin and its like OMG SICK LANTERN GANK POTENTIAL but nothing ever happens.
I play supports with pretty reliable CC or initiation, all I need is for you to come when we're pushed one way or another (lane gank or river, I don't care) and we get kills plzzzzzzz.
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United States23745 Posts
On February 19 2013 15:38 ticklishmusic wrote:
Is it me, or do junglers just not gank bot lane anymore? Sure there's the occasional gank, but junglers these days always seem to be camping mid with visits to top, and the only time they come even close to bot is for a blue steal or something. Its pretty annoying, especially when I pick Thresh, they have Xin and its like OMG SICK LANTERN GANK POTENTIAL but nothing ever happens.
I play supports with pretty reliable CC or initiation, all I need is for you to come when we're pushed one way or another (lane gank or river, I don't care) and we get kills plzzzzzzz.
Abundance of wards and Oracle nerf makes ganking bot lane really hard. When I play support it's not uncommon for me to have river, tri-brush, and lane bush warded at almost all times. People in Mid or Top sometimes skimp on wards in order to finish an item, Bot lane doesn't have that problem since Support is expected to buy a lot of wards. Best bet is to buy some pink wards and clear out some spots and let your jungler know 100% you've eliminated the enemy vision.
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Also, depending on who you are, laneganks can work wonders botlane. Especially if you have a thresh support. Sadly junglers rarely know that. If you are mao, or amumu, or lee, or vi, or hec, or anything similar with a gapcloser plus some cc, and you have a thresh support, you should come lanegank bot whenever the enemy pushes to your tower.
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EPT
