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On February 19 2013 04:02 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 03:09 Seuss wrote:On February 19 2013 02:30 TheYango wrote:
Wait, so we've come to the point where we're discussing how to nerf a champ not even when they are FotM, but the week before they're expected to become FotM? The champion after Quinn is too strong. He needs a longer cooldown on his ultimate, and less range on his Q. More seriously, I agree. Even though we all know Thresh is too strong, it's presumptuous of us to assume we know how to fix him when he hasn't even been out that long. I also haven't seen that many Threshs in ranked yet, though I imagine that will change when players see him constantly picked or banned in LCS. I don't even know how Thresh does in most lanes because I haven't played him too much (focusing on learning Lulu, and not confident enough to pick him in ranked when a teammate will rely on my performance) and most players I've seen using him barely harass with autos and play him like Blitz, aka "be super passive all the time and randomly throw W to collect souls and Q to try to all-in somebody". Resulting in them getting trashed by every support who actually tries to trade and wrestle bush control from them. Sona, Lulu, Zyra and other poke support destroy Thresh despite their inherent squishiness because he never actually tries to abuse his Q passive to out harass them then all-in.
I do, altough I can tell you it doesnt work very well vs ranged supports because they all outrange you. When ure still with less than 20ish souls, their autos actualy hit harder than urs
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On February 19 2013 04:02 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 03:58 Seuss wrote:On February 19 2013 03:32 Flakes wrote:
AP Trynd can win a lot of lanes normal Trynd can't, but using his spin offensively is real terror -- I guess you'd have to rely on CDR instead of crits for reducing the cooldown :\ It's not hard at all. You just walk up to your opponent and start hitting them, and if you position well they'll take spin damage when you spin away. On February 19 2013 03:37 nafta wrote:
I still don't understand how does ap trynd work.Can't any bruiser with some sustain just ignore him and in tf how does he actually do something? Tryndamere starting with lots of AP was capable of beating Yorick during the height of top lane toxicity. Since then everyone except Tryndamere has received sustain nerfs. It's extremely difficult to match the sustain of a Tryndamere who uses AP Runes + Amp Tome because he's healing for 107 Health every 11.5 seconds with just one rank in Q. It's roughly equivalent to having a potion running at all times during laning. For team fighting pure AP Tryndamere just spins in and out. A lucky crit is practically a reset on his spin, which means another 1.0 AP ratio spin. It basically works the same way as Rengar, only it's more consistent and Tryndamere has a magic survival ultimate rather than a stealth. that's misleading though you can't just compare the two and only list trynd's pluses to rengar's negatives i could just as easily say rengar is the same as trynd, only it's a double nuke at once + cc + pushing power rather than an ultimate that's extremely susceptible to the most common summoner spell in the game, ignite
http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&league=ranked&type=spell-popularity&range=daily
hue
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ap is a good stat on trynd no doubt, but stacking ap past the laneing phase is bad. An early rageblade lets trynd do more spins, heal more often, heal better, do faster and stronger autoattacks and on top of it: rageblade is most effective at low health and trynd can stay there for quite some time.
But after that item you should just ignore the fact you bought ap and move on with standard bruiser and ad items. Things like maw (also very good low health scaling), atmas, mallet and so on serve him better imo and if you are fed/farmed you can squeeze in a pure damage item as well.
I don't have much personal experience with pure ap trynds but I've seen a really farmed ap trynd who built all the smart ap items (rageblade, dc, lichbane, nashors) but he didn't really do anything but this: heal through some nukes, do a couple spins and very weak autoattacks and then die.
There are a couple of reasons for trynd not to scale with stacked ap after the laneing phase...
First of all the burst heals are not that amazing after the laneing phase anymore if you dont stack a good amount of defense with it. the ap defensive items are not really synergetic with trynd since spellpen doesn't increase his spin damage (abyssmal) and stasis is super gimmicky on him.
Trynd is balanced and designed around sustained autoattack damage. Rage grows with fast attacks and crits. his ult actually gives him the opportunity to auto attack for free. His spin gets his cooldown reduced by crits. Mathematically he is all about hitting fast and criting alot. Even his heal and spin scale very well if you add AS and crit. In the other hand his auto attack does not scale with added AP.
I'd say: Make a rageblade or maybe even a nashors. I'ts pretty good and especially rageblade has some new synergy with him since it's remade. Alot of good trynd players made rageblade on him for quite some time and it should be even better now. But don't waste any more gold on ap items if you want to be useful in a close lategame scenario.
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Are we really discussing something as troll as AP Tryn legitimately? I had one on my team a few weeks back. All he did was rage at me and ks. If he died, it was lag.
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On February 19 2013 04:02 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 03:58 Seuss wrote:On February 19 2013 03:32 Flakes wrote:
AP Trynd can win a lot of lanes normal Trynd can't, but using his spin offensively is real terror -- I guess you'd have to rely on CDR instead of crits for reducing the cooldown :\ It's not hard at all. You just walk up to your opponent and start hitting them, and if you position well they'll take spin damage when you spin away. On February 19 2013 03:37 nafta wrote:
I still don't understand how does ap trynd work.Can't any bruiser with some sustain just ignore him and in tf how does he actually do something? Tryndamere starting with lots of AP was capable of beating Yorick during the height of top lane toxicity. Since then everyone except Tryndamere has received sustain nerfs. It's extremely difficult to match the sustain of a Tryndamere who uses AP Runes + Amp Tome because he's healing for 107 Health every 11.5 seconds with just one rank in Q. It's roughly equivalent to having a potion running at all times during laning. For team fighting pure AP Tryndamere just spins in and out. A lucky crit is practically a reset on his spin, which means another 1.0 AP ratio spin. It basically works the same way as Rengar, only it's more consistent and Tryndamere has a magic survival ultimate rather than a stealth. that's misleading though you can't just compare the two and only list trynd's pluses to rengar's negatives i could just as easily say rengar is the same as trynd, only it's a double nuke at once + cc + pushing power rather than an ultimate that's extremely susceptible to the most common summoner spell in the game, ignite
I guess it's misleading, but my main point was just to illustrate that teamfighting for both champions' AP builds operated off the same principle (e.g. spamming low cooldown 1.0 AP ratio AoE abilities is ridiculous for teamfights).
On February 19 2013 04:13 misirlou wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 04:02 Alaric wrote:On February 19 2013 03:09 Seuss wrote:On February 19 2013 02:30 TheYango wrote:
Wait, so we've come to the point where we're discussing how to nerf a champ not even when they are FotM, but the week before they're expected to become FotM? The champion after Quinn is too strong. He needs a longer cooldown on his ultimate, and less range on his Q. More seriously, I agree. Even though we all know Thresh is too strong, it's presumptuous of us to assume we know how to fix him when he hasn't even been out that long. I also haven't seen that many Threshs in ranked yet, though I imagine that will change when players see him constantly picked or banned in LCS. I don't even know how Thresh does in most lanes because I haven't played him too much (focusing on learning Lulu, and not confident enough to pick him in ranked when a teammate will rely on my performance) and most players I've seen using him barely harass with autos and play him like Blitz, aka "be super passive all the time and randomly throw W to collect souls and Q to try to all-in somebody". Resulting in them getting trashed by every support who actually tries to trade and wrestle bush control from them. Sona, Lulu, Zyra and other poke support destroy Thresh despite their inherent squishiness because he never actually tries to abuse his Q passive to out harass them then all-in. I do, altough I can tell you it doesnt work very well vs ranged supports because they all outrange you. When ure still with less than 20ish souls, their autos actualy hit harder than urs
The key is that your first auto-attack is going to do at least 39 bonus damage without any souls at all so your first auto definitely hits harder than theirs (barring perhaps Sona Q auto). Between your shield and your higher base Armor it's not hard to win trades or at least out-shield their damage. Add the huge threat of pulling them with either Q or E and Thresh is simply a monster when it comes to lane presence.
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On February 19 2013 04:20 clickrush wrote:
In the other hand his auto attack does not scale with added AP.
Lich Bane is core on AP Trynd. Malady might be reasonable after Deathcap and Hourglass.
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On February 19 2013 04:15 Dusty wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 04:02 gtrsrs wrote:On February 19 2013 03:58 Seuss wrote:On February 19 2013 03:32 Flakes wrote:
AP Trynd can win a lot of lanes normal Trynd can't, but using his spin offensively is real terror -- I guess you'd have to rely on CDR instead of crits for reducing the cooldown :\ It's not hard at all. You just walk up to your opponent and start hitting them, and if you position well they'll take spin damage when you spin away. On February 19 2013 03:37 nafta wrote:
I still don't understand how does ap trynd work.Can't any bruiser with some sustain just ignore him and in tf how does he actually do something? Tryndamere starting with lots of AP was capable of beating Yorick during the height of top lane toxicity. Since then everyone except Tryndamere has received sustain nerfs. It's extremely difficult to match the sustain of a Tryndamere who uses AP Runes + Amp Tome because he's healing for 107 Health every 11.5 seconds with just one rank in Q. It's roughly equivalent to having a potion running at all times during laning. For team fighting pure AP Tryndamere just spins in and out. A lucky crit is practically a reset on his spin, which means another 1.0 AP ratio spin. It basically works the same way as Rengar, only it's more consistent and Tryndamere has a magic survival ultimate rather than a stealth. that's misleading though you can't just compare the two and only list trynd's pluses to rengar's negatives i could just as easily say rengar is the same as trynd, only it's a double nuke at once + cc + pushing power rather than an ultimate that's extremely susceptible to the most common summoner spell in the game, ignite http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&league=ranked&type=spell-popularity&range=daily hue
flash isn't a summoner spell, it's every champion's 5th ability
isn't it?
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On February 19 2013 03:32 Flakes wrote:
AP Trynd can win a lot of lanes normal Trynd can't, but using his spin offensively is real terror -- I guess you'd have to rely on CDR instead of crits for reducing the cooldown :\
He does. His build order is Nashors+CDR Boots which gives him 39% CDR with masteries. Then party hat and lichbane. though exact order may have changed to CDR book, CDR boots, party hat, nashors.
On February 19 2013 03:37 nafta wrote:
I still don't understand how does ap trynd work.Can't any bruiser with some sustain just ignore him and in tf how does he actually do something?
His spin scales 1 to 1 off AP. So with CDR, and lichbane he can do a significant amount of damage. That being said the point of AP trynd isn't really to straight up fight people. You cannot do that until you have a lot of AP.
The point of AP trynd is to split push and farm. With the 1.0 ratio on his spin he can effortlessly farm entire waves/the jungle. With his 1.5 ratio on his heal and his ult he is never in serious danger from any one member of the enemy team. This makes him effectively tanky and hard to kill without sacrificing any tower push potential. And once he gets to two items (Nashors/Deathcap) his tower push potential is quite high.
In addition his w can be used effectively in team fights to neuter enemy physical damage casters and ADC's as well as peel for your time. After diving into the backlines of the enemy team he hits his w, takes 80 AD off the enemy physical damage bruisers/ADC's and slows the assassins/bruisers who are behind him trying to get to his carry. With 40% CDR this ability has a 8.4 second Cooldown and 4 seconds of effect making it very strong in enclosed spaces, or simply when peeling for your ADC.
On February 19 2013 04:02 gtrsrs wrote:
that's misleading though
you can't just compare the two and only list trynd's pluses to rengar's negatives
i could just as easily say rengar is the same as trynd, only it's a double nuke at once + cc + pushing power rather than an ultimate that's extremely susceptible to the most common summoner spell in the game, ignite
AP trynd runs Cleanse. Though he is susceptible to grievous wounds morellonomicon isn't very common and executioners calling can usually be waited out.
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I have a question:
When talon was nerfed a few patches ago this was in the patch notes:
" Fixed a bug where the damage amplification did not actually apply. "
Was the damage amplification never happening or was it just a rare bug? I'm just curious because it seems like he got a pretty damn giant nerf (I used to play talon a lot, just not recently).
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The amplification was not applied, at all. He actually does more damage to a single target even after the nerfs due to that one fix.
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On February 19 2013 04:40 Complete wrote:
I have a question:
When talon was nerfed a few patches ago this was in the patch notes:
" Fixed a bug where the damage amplification did not actually apply. "
Was the damage amplification never happening or was it just a rare bug? I'm just curious because it seems like he got a pretty damn giant nerf (I used to play talon a lot, just not recently).
It was a really weird bug. The red number that popped out was amplified, but the actual damage that was dealt was still the unamplified amount. Apparently a Rioter found the bug because he set the damage amplification to -100% once (experimenting with something I guess) and found that damage was still being dealt even though big zeros were popping up.
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United States23745 Posts
On February 19 2013 03:30 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 03:25 onlywonderboy wrote:On February 19 2013 03:15 Dusty wrote:
so uh
I just played with QualityPlayer aka BEST AP TRYND WORLD aka ALL I DO IS WIN..
and he just trashed InvertedComposer's Singed with his AP Trynd. I'm pretty sure AP Trynd is now a thing. Reminds me of when people were abusing AP Rengar, slap a 1.0 AP ratio on a skill and people will find a way to abuse it lol. Tell that to Ashe lolOn a side note, I'm kind of sad that most abilities don't have a 1.0 AP ratio. I feel like that was their original intent (mousing over your ability power stat gives a tooltip that's something like "Ability power: 30 Your abilities do 30 more damage" although few champs actually have an ability that does 30 more damage with 30 AP. If I were in charge, I'd make all AP items/runes/masteries give 20% less AP, so we can bump all of the ~0.8 ratios up to 1.0 It doesn't actually solve any problem and is silly though.
*On a short CD lol
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On February 19 2013 04:22 obesechicken13 wrote:
Are we really discussing something as troll as AP Tryn legitimately? I had one on my team a few weeks back. All he did was rage at me and ks. If he died, it was lag.
i had one in a game he got 10 kills had sorcs shoes for no reason and 1v1'd a jarvan with 4k hp and 190 ad when he had dcap and sheen it's legit
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Twitch free week was a blessing, such a good champ, always get a kill at lvl 2 against squishy champs, never not get a kill at lvl 2 vs squishies
The poison does insane damage when it's stacked 3 times+ and the expunge might even be a little too good early game.
Now it's time for a week of split-push and for an outrageous bot lane =)
Really digging the ADC role lately, farming is fun, doing tons of damage is kinda nice too.
Gonna try BotRK with the incoming buffs too
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On February 19 2013 04:38 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2013 04:15 Dusty wrote:On February 19 2013 04:02 gtrsrs wrote:On February 19 2013 03:58 Seuss wrote:On February 19 2013 03:32 Flakes wrote:
AP Trynd can win a lot of lanes normal Trynd can't, but using his spin offensively is real terror -- I guess you'd have to rely on CDR instead of crits for reducing the cooldown :\ It's not hard at all. You just walk up to your opponent and start hitting them, and if you position well they'll take spin damage when you spin away. On February 19 2013 03:37 nafta wrote:
I still don't understand how does ap trynd work.Can't any bruiser with some sustain just ignore him and in tf how does he actually do something? Tryndamere starting with lots of AP was capable of beating Yorick during the height of top lane toxicity. Since then everyone except Tryndamere has received sustain nerfs. It's extremely difficult to match the sustain of a Tryndamere who uses AP Runes + Amp Tome because he's healing for 107 Health every 11.5 seconds with just one rank in Q. It's roughly equivalent to having a potion running at all times during laning. For team fighting pure AP Tryndamere just spins in and out. A lucky crit is practically a reset on his spin, which means another 1.0 AP ratio spin. It basically works the same way as Rengar, only it's more consistent and Tryndamere has a magic survival ultimate rather than a stealth. that's misleading though you can't just compare the two and only list trynd's pluses to rengar's negatives i could just as easily say rengar is the same as trynd, only it's a double nuke at once + cc + pushing power rather than an ultimate that's extremely susceptible to the most common summoner spell in the game, ignite http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&league=ranked&type=spell-popularity&range=daily hue flash isn't a summoner spell, it's every champion's 5th ability isn't it?
What I find more interesting is that Teleport is 2% on NA but not Europe servers.
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Seriously, people talking about AP trynd >.>?
Also, anyone mind explaining why EU feelz kennen worth playing again?
Feels risky, he's no longer the lane bully he once was.
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On February 19 2013 05:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Seriously, people talking about AP trynd >.>?
Also, anyone mind explaining why EU feelz kennen worth playing again?
Feels risky, he's no longer the lane bully he once was.
EU doesnt think Kennen is worth playing again, it's just that Froggen's Anivia is Jimbz Kennen.
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Why are people talking about AP trynds teamfight? If you're team fighting as AP trynd you're doing it wrong. He's supposed to be used for splitpushing. You're nearly impossible to get out of lane 1v1, and nearly impossible to lock down without 3+ opponents. Infinite sustain allows him to just keep pushing really hard, drawing the team to his lane and opening up map control opportunities even in solo queue. Quality Player just pushes top over and over, drawing as much of the team top as possible (and usually escaping). If it remains 1v1 he simply kills his opponent with 6 sec spin, lolheal and the AD power build into his kit. He usually does ok in lane for obvious reasons.
Said it before, I'm very confident it will be nerfed at some point.
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Just saw the IEM groups, checked out Millenium line-up, god does it look dissapointing ( for the biggest e-sports organism in france ) u_u
Probably gonna be the standard Koreans + GG and then group B koreans + either EG or SK, this one's gonna be a close one.
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United States23745 Posts
On February 19 2013 05:36 GregMandel wrote:
Just saw the IEM groups, checked out Millenium line-up, god does it look dissapointing ( for the biggest e-sports organism in france ) u_u
Probably gonna be the standard Koreans + GG and then group B koreans + either EG or SK, this one's gonna be a close one.
With Tabzz and ImSoFresh? They had a lot of potential and I was honestly shocked they didn't qualify for the EU LCS. If they had made it I think we would have seen them develop into an incredibly solid team. If they stick together they should probably be able to dominate the EU Challenger Series and get a shot at qualifying for the second half of the LCS.
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EPT
