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On February 18 2013 17:45 Kupon3ss wrote:
Yes, League of Legends do undergo similar thought processes in terms of meta, and a few of the points are quite similar
Both games underwent a period of plentiful vision and superior lategame scaling, which meant a emphasis towards lategame protect the super-hard carry, DotA had tp counterganks to keep people safe by towers while LoL has towers hit for infinity damage, both of which promote more passivity. However, once these issues were worked around (tp counterganks on cd and multiple tps to the same location are slowed in DotA and people figuring out how to work around tower aggro and 3v1 collapses), the early game became a lot more aggressive. Another parallel is the nerf on ez/roflcoptor/gunbro and buffing certain brusiers/armor pen allowing for lineups that just run at you and kill you (aka facerush), which is very reminiscent of DotA in early 2011, both metas are constantly in flux, and the DotA influence, both on purpose and subconsciously, are quite strong, specifically in the Chinese meta, where many of the top players today were ex-DotA pros/semipros.
However at the end of the day, the way that LoL champs are designed and balanced will always make the LoL meta feel "murkier" the way that fewer champions "change the way the game is played" the way say blitz or nidalee does, as well as Riot's hands-on constantly tinkering approach means that no style is likely to emerge dominant at any period, and different teams can play different styles and be reasonably valid. On the other hand, this is a double edged sword since the scene is essentially being dragged around by Riot, who often make changes that can be perceived as misguided and gamebreaking while being unfair to certain teams and playstyles in their essentially monthly major balance tweaks and new champions (who are, more often than not, overpowered).
Isn't Dota2 seeing the same at the moment? The permanent influx of "new" heroes as well as frequent balance changes keep strategy in constant flux. Magnus is a good example for that. There are problems in Riots approach because some stuff would have probably fixed themselves, but at least they show that they care about the balance of the game. It might be misguided and sometimes outright counterproductive, but they are trying.
I also would argue, that vision has never been as plentiful in Lol as it is now due to the changes to oracle. Towards the end of season 2, many junglers became super aggressive, bought early oracle and put a lot of pressure on the lanes. This has completely disappeared now. Season 3 so far looks to me like as if people are looking for favorable trades without actually fighting. You're 3-man pushing top, ok that means, we can push mid, bot and take dragon (stupid example).
I also think that in the long run map positioning will become much more important in lol than in dota due to the lack of TPs. Teams will get better and better in figuring out how to take advantage of people not rotating right. Best example in my opinion is giants at the moment. Every game seems to be the same for them. They lead the early game and then just loose objective after objective in the mid game, because they are permanently out of position.
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On February 18 2013 18:56 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 17:45 Kupon3ss wrote:
Yes, League of Legends do undergo similar thought processes in terms of meta, and a few of the points are quite similar
Both games underwent a period of plentiful vision and superior lategame scaling, which meant a emphasis towards lategame protect the super-hard carry, DotA had tp counterganks to keep people safe by towers while LoL has towers hit for infinity damage, both of which promote more passivity. However, once these issues were worked around (tp counterganks on cd and multiple tps to the same location are slowed in DotA and people figuring out how to work around tower aggro and 3v1 collapses), the early game became a lot more aggressive. Another parallel is the nerf on ez/roflcoptor/gunbro and buffing certain brusiers/armor pen allowing for lineups that just run at you and kill you (aka facerush), which is very reminiscent of DotA in early 2011, both metas are constantly in flux, and the DotA influence, both on purpose and subconsciously, are quite strong, specifically in the Chinese meta, where many of the top players today were ex-DotA pros/semipros.
However at the end of the day, the way that LoL champs are designed and balanced will always make the LoL meta feel "murkier" the way that fewer champions "change the way the game is played" the way say blitz or nidalee does, as well as Riot's hands-on constantly tinkering approach means that no style is likely to emerge dominant at any period, and different teams can play different styles and be reasonably valid. On the other hand, this is a double edged sword since the scene is essentially being dragged around by Riot, who often make changes that can be perceived as misguided and gamebreaking while being unfair to certain teams and playstyles in their essentially monthly major balance tweaks and new champions (who are, more often than not, overpowered). Isn't Dota2 seeing the same at the moment? The permanent influx of "new" heroes as well as frequent balance changes keep strategy in constant flux. Magnus is a good example for that. There are problems in Riots approach because some stuff would have probably fixed themselves, but at least they show that they care about the balance of the game. It might be misguided and sometimes outright counterproductive, but they are trying. I also would argue, that vision has never been as plentiful in Lol as it is now due to the changes to oracle. Towards the end of season 2, many junglers became super aggressive, bought early oracle and put a lot of pressure on the lanes. This has completely disappeared now. Season 3 so far looks to me like as if people are looking for favorable trades without actually fighting. You're 3-man pushing top, ok that means, we can push mid, bot and take dragon (stupid example). I also think that in the long run map positioning will become much more important in lol than in dota due to the lack of TPs. Teams will get better and better in figuring out how to take advantage of people not rotating right. Best example in my opinion is giants at the moment. Every game seems to be the same for them. They lead the early game and then just loose objective after objective in the mid game, because they are permanently out of position.
Thie stuff about DotA isn't entirely true. Pretty much all the viable heroes have been ported to DotA 2 for some time already. The metagame in DotA 2 is always evolving and there's definitely changes due to engine differences from WC3 DotA and DotA 2, but in terms of the heroes that are picked it's relatively stable. Things do go in and out of favor every so often though. DotA patches are much more sparse than LoL. Big balance patches usually come like once every 2~3 months at a minimum.
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I got to play in 44 games on my smurf. Don't know if I should be happy about that or not, lol.
35-9 is pretty good, I guess, considering the fact that some games are unwinnable
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On February 18 2013 16:29 Chrispy wrote:
Why are there so many goofballs out there not banning Nidalee 100% of the time?
Seriously.
Is she really that bad?
I mean, idk. At least the ones I play vs tend to suck in lane and I snowball off them. Maybe I should practice her more lol. Are you speaking about AP or Bruiser Nid? I find bruiser a lot more annoying to deal with tbh
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On February 18 2013 19:46 Mondeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 16:29 Chrispy wrote:
Why are there so many goofballs out there not banning Nidalee 100% of the time?
Seriously. Is she really that bad? I mean, idk. At least the ones I play vs tend to suck in lane and I snowball off them. Maybe I should practice her more lol. Are you speaking about AP or Bruiser Nid? I find bruiser a lot more annoying to deal with tbh
I think bruiser Nidalee is strong and might or might not deserve a nerf (Riot will still surely nerf her), but AP nidalee is just broken
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Oh nice, same birthday as Neo. Now I sleep.
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On February 18 2013 16:21 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 15:32 zodde wrote:
On what wei2coolman wrote, I think that Riot should make fewer changes to the game, just to give the pro scene a chance to develop their own styles. A more static game, in term of game changes/patches, would be good for the e-sport side of LoL. But I guess Riot cares too much about their casual playerbase?
Does anyone really believe "the casual playerbase" will quit over a longer patch cycle? It seems like a really weak argument to me. Hell, you could make the argument that a longer patch cycle would even drive up RP sales as players might be more willing to invest in champs/skins for a popular champ without fear of that champ being nerfed.
This is actually a good point. I know personally I'm super hesitant on spending any IP/RP on champs because of the way the gut champs sometimes. So it just all goes into savings 
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United States37500 Posts
It's mostly skins imo. Riot can easily keep the skin turnover at the same rate as before, just slow down the patching.
hbd: Irave
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In all honesty, the patches now are MUCH better than they were when I took my break ~a year ago.
Instead of crazy ass reworks and seemingly inane changes in power (both up and down) among champions, back then things DID change badly each patch.
Now there seems to be a tread towards tweaking things (possibly too much still) but nowhere near as impactful as it was back then.
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On February 18 2013 19:49 OutlaW- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 19:46 Mondeezy wrote:On February 18 2013 16:29 Chrispy wrote:
Why are there so many goofballs out there not banning Nidalee 100% of the time?
Seriously. Is she really that bad? I mean, idk. At least the ones I play vs tend to suck in lane and I snowball off them. Maybe I should practice her more lol. Are you speaking about AP or Bruiser Nid? I find bruiser a lot more annoying to deal with tbh I think bruiser Nidalee is strong and might or might not deserve a nerf (Riot will still surely nerf her), but AP nidalee is just broken
The nerf to her cat form going to make bruiser nid a lot weaker.
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new najin shield roster:
Expession
Yelloout
Nofe
Locodoco
Wolf
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
On February 18 2013 20:12 Mensol wrote:
new najin shield roster:
Expession
Yelloout
Nofe
Locodoco
Wolf
On February 18 2013 17:46 Chexx wrote:
Locodoco seems to be the new ADC for Najin Shield
But as far as I understand the translations this is jsut a test and not yet 100 % sure
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On February 18 2013 20:03 Two_DoWn wrote:
In all honesty, the patches now are MUCH better than they were when I took my break ~a year ago.
Instead of crazy ass reworks and seemingly inane changes in power (both up and down) among champions, back then things DID change badly each patch.
Now there seems to be a tread towards tweaking things (possibly too much still) but nowhere near as impactful as it was back then.
I totally agree. A year ago the changes were too 'heavy' and caused more problems than it offered balance. I like how Riot take time to tweak minor things, balance is pretty good as it is now actually.
Back when I started playing, there were alot of hardcounters. Now its more to the players skill on who wins a matchup, wich is perfect imo.
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Got some general questions, maybe someone can share his wisdom. I am duoing a lot lately, friend of mine and me, we got bot most of the time, as we are both good at ad and can support. If he supports, he carries my lazy ass to stomp botlane. However, if i support, we tend to fail, altough he is, at least mechanically, the far superior ad-carry. He last hits better, he harasses better. However, somehow we don't have synergy. He engages when i don't want to, he farms when i engage. Really frustrating. So, i figured he needs a support like Sona or Lulu, who just harases and let's the ad do his thing whenever he wants. But last game, we had no peel and no engage, our teamcomp screamed for a cc-bot. So i chose Leona and damn that was frustrating.
And here is the first very general question. Should i just focus on winning my lane as hard as i can, even if it means teamfights are going to be akward, or should i sacrifice a bit of laning power (or a lot) and pick for what the team needs?
Next question, what to do against a good cait/taric? They have so much disengage, that a hard engage lane seems not worth it, a poke comp seems a bad idea as well, so, just farming with something like Soraka or Janna, keeping the ad healthy but never getting aggressive?
How do i tell a friend, who is better at the game then myself, that he FUCKING SUCKS? QQ
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Ezreal Janna is pretty good against taric cait imo. The ezrael E saves u from the stun shatter combo, the shield gives you the damage / 'sustain' to trade efficiently. And when they do engage, a tornado saves lifes.
Then again, Im not the best player in the world 
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On February 18 2013 20:26 ihasaKAROT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 20:03 Two_DoWn wrote:
In all honesty, the patches now are MUCH better than they were when I took my break ~a year ago.
Instead of crazy ass reworks and seemingly inane changes in power (both up and down) among champions, back then things DID change badly each patch.
Now there seems to be a tread towards tweaking things (possibly too much still) but nowhere near as impactful as it was back then. I totally agree. A year ago the changes were too 'heavy' and caused more problems than it offered balance. I like how Riot take time to tweak minor things, balance is pretty good as it is now actually. Back when I started playing, there were alot of hardcounters. Now its more to the players skill on who wins a matchup, wich is perfect imo.
Ha! They just do all the big things at once and it affects perception. Did you forget the season three patch?
"So the conclusion is: If you take control of a state, you should make a list of all the crimes you have to commit and do them all at once. That way you will not have to commit new atrocities every day, and you will be able, by not repeating your evil deeds, to reassure your subjects and to win their support by treating them well. He who acts otherwise, either out of squeamishness or out of bad judgment, has to hold a bloody knife in his hand all the time. He can never rely on his subjects, for they can never trust him, for he is always making new attacks upon them. Do all the harm you must at one and the same time, that way the full extent of it will not be noticed, and it will give least offense. One should do good, on the other hand, little by little, so people can fully appreciate it. "
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On February 18 2013 20:43 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 20:26 ihasaKAROT wrote:On February 18 2013 20:03 Two_DoWn wrote:
In all honesty, the patches now are MUCH better than they were when I took my break ~a year ago.
Instead of crazy ass reworks and seemingly inane changes in power (both up and down) among champions, back then things DID change badly each patch.
Now there seems to be a tread towards tweaking things (possibly too much still) but nowhere near as impactful as it was back then. I totally agree. A year ago the changes were too 'heavy' and caused more problems than it offered balance. I like how Riot take time to tweak minor things, balance is pretty good as it is now actually. Back when I started playing, there were alot of hardcounters. Now its more to the players skill on who wins a matchup, wich is perfect imo. Ha! They just do all the big things at once and it affects perception. Did you forget the season three patch? "So the conclusion is: If you take control of a state, you should make a list of all the crimes you have to commit and do them all at once. That way you will not have to commit new atrocities every day, and you will be able, by not repeating your evil deeds, to reassure your subjects and to win their support by treating them well. He who acts otherwise, either out of squeamishness or out of bad judgment, has to hold a bloody knife in his hand all the time. He can never rely on his subjects, for they can never trust him, for he is always making new attacks upon them. Do all the harm you must at one and the same time, that way the full extent of it will not be noticed, and it will give least offense. One should do good, on the other hand, little by little, so people can fully appreciate it. "
Then again, they did the same thing for season 2.
So I think its fair to expect pretty big changes at the start of each season.
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I don't think any period I've played in has seen as much change as the difference between one week before the last season patch and now.
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On February 18 2013 20:50 UniversalSnip wrote:
I don't think any period I've played in has seen as much change as the difference between one week before the last season patch and now.
1st time they buffed minions S1 and they could push your entire base if an extra ranged creep got mixed in.
1st Jungle remake that basically gutted the game.
There were a few times that had some pretty drastic effects on the way you needed to play. And that isnt even counting release chars like Xin or that Pantheon remake.
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So Loco coming back to competetive LoL for a korean team? sweeet.
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EPT
