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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On February 28 2013 17:00 Diamond wrote: Lich Bane ftw. That + Nashor's = dead towers everywhere. Nashor's Diana is just amazingly fun to play. Lichbane is also very strong- you can't go wrong with Khaz mid as well though, I really enjoy his insane roam potential. | ||
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Promises
Netherlands1821 Posts
On February 28 2013 21:19 RoieTRS wrote: I ban kayle and pick katarina Is there any counter? I'm like 50-0 as kat I personally had a fairly easy time against Kat as Ziggs/Viktor/Malz. Ziggs has a lot to throw down on himself in case she shunpos on, and has very strong trades with Q and passive, plus satchell kills the ulti. Viktor outpokes her hard with Q-E and the shield from Q, and his ult interrupts DeathLotus. Malz just duels well, full combo means a dead pretty much anyone. | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
On February 28 2013 23:36 Promises wrote: I personally had a fairly easy time against Kat as Ziggs/Viktor/Malz. Ziggs has a lot to throw down on himself in case she shunpos on, and has very strong trades with Q and passive, plus satchell kills the ulti. Viktor outpokes her hard with Q-E and the shield from Q, and his ult interrupts DeathLotus. Malz just duels well, full combo means a dead pretty much anyone. Ziggs satchel takes too long + everything can be shunpo'd out of + kat Q hits always. Viktor E can be dodged + he does not have a strong escape / engage / teamfight lategame Malz is malz + E range is shorten then Kat Q range + W and Q can be shunpo'd out of again If you want to really counter, you want something that can either burst kat down or farm safely while not being horrible in teamfights. Lux is pretty good against Kat overall, so is Ori | ||
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Lounge
537 Posts
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Serelitz
Netherlands2895 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On February 28 2013 21:19 RoieTRS wrote: I ban kayle and pick katarina Is there any counter? I'm like 50-0 as kat You're on TL, dude. Viktor. More seriously (though Viktor will destroy her if you don't start mass pots), there was a discussion at one point that stated that Diana wrecks her (not sure how true it is when using tank Kat). I believe strong laners like Malzahar and Mordekaiser give her trouble too, you won't be able to kill Fizz easily but you can shove him so he prob doesn't count. Orianna trashes Kat early on through autos (she can even max shield and there's no way Kat trades with her). I'm pretty sure Swain can snowball the lane pretty hard if he manages to get enough of an advantage before she can instaclear. On February 28 2013 23:42 ihasaKAROT wrote: Viktor E can be dodged + he does not have a strong escape / engage / teamfight lategame Viktor utterly destroys her up to level 4-5. Even then, he can E her if you know the range well because 700 is more than anything Katarina has and is instant with no cast time or animation on the starting point. Just need to click precisely. Then once they're 6 he can instaclear and roam pretty well, ignoring her if she doesn't want to fight. If she wants, she'll eat a QE (and possibly W) everytime she Shunpo on him, as long as Viktor reacts fast enough his shield will be up for at least one spell (possibly 2) of her combo. If she ults, he ults, and with a well-timed W will stop her from shunpo-ing away, ensuring 4-5s of periodic damage (and should be in range to E and possibly Q her again once she shunpo'd away, if he positions well, due to CDs). Viktor is not a late game mage anyway, especially in this health-oriented meta: too many champs won't die to his full combo even if he was to deal true damage to them, so his goal is to ride the midgame and crush the enemy team. His teamfighting, however, is pretty good with proper positioning of the team: his W is a good zoning tool and with CDR he'll get at least 2 per fight. His ult still deals a lot of incidental damage if your team is sufficiently damage-oriented to kill the people who stood in it for too long. He's relatively decent at cleaning-up with his Q shield, assuming the main sources of damage and big cooldowns are out (he's no bruiser obviously). His main weakness is the short range on his ult and lack of "oomph", making it more of a "I know the fight will be here, I'll make this zone hell" than a "I decide the fight will be here", Flash-ult is also generally a bad move because the valuable targets are normally standing behind and you need to stay near your ult so it doesn't get outrun. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1885 Posts
Edit for above: Yeah, Early levels, you dump on her as you dump on every champ with no aa range, but once she gets levels, i don't see a Orianna winning. | ||
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Keniji
Netherlands2569 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On March 01 2013 00:24 Broetchenholer wrote: Wait, Ori vs Kat is good? I am horrible mid and even more horrible on Orianna, especially vs Kat, but the fact taht your ball takes thime to travel meant for me, that eventhe bad Kats i had at my Elo just jumped over it before it could hit her, then user her aoe thingy in melee range while i try to bring the shield back on me. Si, waisted too spells worth of mana and would basically never really hit a QW combo on her. Even worse, with the casting delay on R, she can jump out of it again after you casted it. I don't see how this would get better with higher skill on both sides. Edit for above: Yeah, Early levels, you dump on her as you dump on every champ with no aa range, but once she gets levels, i don't see a Orianna winning. You have pretty good waveclear, and if Kat wants to fight you with anything else than her Q she has to get either close, or on top of you. As long as you manage the ball well you can either stop her from getting near you (Ori's Q has 825 range so it's about forcing Kat to walk into it, or worse through the ball, to get to you), or have the ball on you and that should be enough to stop her from trying to jump you (shield as soon as she shunpo into WQ autos, with an ult if she uses hers, tends to make you autowin trades early, and even later with good kiting or some CDR she shouldn't want to chase you). It's not faceroll by any means past level 5 though, and the early levels advantage is reduced a ton by the mass consumables start, like Viktor's, but it's definitely a skill match-up with an edge for Orianna I'd say. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On March 01 2013 00:24 Broetchenholer wrote: Wait, Ori vs Kat is good? I am horrible mid and even more horrible on Orianna, especially vs Kat, but the fact taht your ball takes thime to travel meant for me, that eventhe bad Kats i had at my Elo just jumped over it before it could hit her, then user her aoe thingy in melee range while i try to bring the shield back on me. Si, waisted too spells worth of mana and would basically never really hit a QW combo on her. Even worse, with the casting delay on R, she can jump out of it again after you casted it. I don't see how this would get better with higher skill on both sides. Edit for above: Yeah, Early levels, you dump on her as you dump on every champ with no aa range, but once she gets levels, i don't see a Orianna winning. You fight Kat kind of the same way you fight Akali and Diana. You beat on her before she hits 6 and then once she's 6 you kill minions as fast as possible while ignoring her. Kat has trouble against champions who have good harass pre 6 and safe waveclear post 6, which is why Lux and Ori were suggestions. I think Ziggs is good too. Viktor plays differently, he just kills her. Forcing her to Shunpo away from a skillshot is really not a bad thing. She needs to Shunpo on to you to do her combo, so if you make her jump away that gives you time to go in and grab a few minions safely. Ori's cooldowns are low enough that you can chase her with the ball while farming and not feel bad about it. I personally don't think much of Kats laning phase. She has strong ganks and a strong late game teamfight in the right team comp, but there are plenty of champs that can force her to stay in mid without any realistic chance of getting kills. But in other news, starting 9-11 pots is really really lame. I would love some sort of patch that caps you out at having maximum 5-6 of any one item. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
I'm not sure about specifics but beating 9-11 pot starters has always been all about lasthitting well and establishing power during the time you have pots. | ||
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On March 01 2013 01:16 Zdrastochye wrote: The counter to Viktor? Buy boots2 faster so you can dodge his E. Your move Alaric. Na, you didn't get it: there is absolutely no cast time or animation on Viktor's laser. If you target a point in range (eg you don't have to move to get in its range) the laser will immediately appear there and start moving. This means that even though the laser's effective range of 1100 makes you want to kinda hang back and poke, you can treat it as a 700 range point'n'click nuke (you don't even have to input a direction: you just click right on your opponent and he gets damaged, so you don't care where the laser goes afterwards). (However Shunpo has 700 range too so I guess Kat can retaliate since she has better base MS, if she react fast enough BB's 675 range may be enough too, though the lack of any animation on Death Ray means that you can already be moving away from your opponent when the laser appears.) | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
However, I don't think it's quite a 1 framer, it still has an animation. Actually thinking about it Viktor vs Kat should be totally unplayable for the Kat. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
Fiddlesticks Viktor Cho'Gath Akali (really hard counter in isolated 1v1 situation but it gets more even the more junglers exert pressure) Kassadin Malzahar LeBlanc To some extent Diana, Fizz, Annie, Ryze and Rumble counters Kat, but you can easily win against these champions if you are better than your opponent. Lux vs Kat is incredibly even and can quickly snowball to either side. Ziggs vs Kat should be easy win for good Kat against good Ziggs. Orianna vs Kat is skill matchup. Twisted Fate vs Kat depends a lot on the junglers but if left alone Kat can really abuse his W cooldown. Karthus vs Kat is almost as one-sided as Karthus vs Akali. It's a lot of fun. Syndra vs Kat is a really snowbally and interesting skill matchup. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
If you tumble into a wall you have 0 delay before shooting, super burst early. | ||
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