On February 06 2013 02:14 cLutZ wrote: Ashe needs lots of gold (imo) to do the Deeps compared to other ADs. Maybe they should buff her Hawkshot gold bonus.
She's similar to Cait in that her laning is strong, and she needs it to be because she needs to win lane. However, it's not as good as it was in days past thanks to some of the new ADs + Supports.
I want to try running a Cait + Ashe support lane. Aka: "Good luck not getting zoned out tee hee"
On February 06 2013 01:44 thenexusp wrote: Out of all the adcs, ashe's ult is the most fun.
But yeah, she feels somewhat underwhelming atm.
Yeah, two utility spells hurts her damage potential. I still think her passive should be just changed to static crit or crit damage bonus.
I still think people need to rethink building and playing Ashe. In the same way Urgot isn't really an ADC, but more of an AD ranged bruiser/ADC hybrid type thing, Ashe is more of an ADC/Support hybrid. She works much better in a team comp where you're not entirely relying on the ADC.
Maybe I'll start playing her and fiddling around with different builds aside from straight ADC. I'm sure I'll get banned for trolling in the meantime.
On murderbridge I love playing Ashe with 40% cdr and tanky/supporty items. Just spam W all day, permaslow everything and ult every 50 seconds. It is really annoying to play against and that makes it fun. I think Ashe makes for pretty good support, but I have no idea how her laning phase is as support.
in s2 ashe was weaker than all the other adcs but her damage was still good enough, and therefore her utility really shined, she was one of the better late-game carries once you had QSS and IE+PD+LW.
now her damage doesn't feel relevant at all for some reason. overall ad reduction on items? easier bt build path? league of warmogs? i'm not sure, but it's felt like any game i've played with an ashe has been a struggle once we move past the 20 minute mark.
i think she's fine in lane, or at least, still at the same level she was. but it feels like she loses to any ad carry in mid-late game.
On February 06 2013 02:14 cLutZ wrote: Ashe needs lots of gold (imo) to do the Deeps compared to other ADs. Maybe they should buff her Hawkshot gold bonus.
She's similar to Cait in that her laning is strong, and she needs it to be because she needs to win lane. However, it's not as good as it was in days past thanks to some of the new ADs + Supports.
I want to try running a Cait + Ashe support lane. Aka: "Good luck not getting zoned out tee hee"
Why not just go Cait + Lux at that point? Just as good of poke and lux can support better. Plus that level 6 combo! Running away at 1/2 life? Psh, no problem!
edit: Plus landing a lux root allows you to place a cait trap under them = GG, double root op 2ez joke lane free win.
On February 06 2013 02:14 cLutZ wrote: Ashe needs lots of gold (imo) to do the Deeps compared to other ADs. Maybe they should buff her Hawkshot gold bonus.
She's similar to Cait in that her laning is strong, and she needs it to be because she needs to win lane. However, it's not as good as it was in days past thanks to some of the new ADs + Supports.
I want to try running a Cait + Ashe support lane. Aka: "Good luck not getting zoned out tee hee"
huh? Ashe does not have a strong lane phase. Also, for the most part, ashe really just has to keep up in cs, or at worst be a bit behind, to do just fine for the rest of the game.
On February 06 2013 02:14 cLutZ wrote: Ashe needs lots of gold (imo) to do the Deeps compared to other ADs. Maybe they should buff her Hawkshot gold bonus.
She's similar to Cait in that her laning is strong, and she needs it to be because she needs to win lane. However, it's not as good as it was in days past thanks to some of the new ADs + Supports.
I want to try running a Cait + Ashe support lane. Aka: "Good luck not getting zoned out tee hee"
Why not just go Cait + Lux at that point? Just as good of poke and lux can support better. Plus that level 6 combo! Running away at 1/2 life? Psh, no problem!
edit: Plus landing a lux root allows you to place a cait trap under them = GG, double root op 2ez joke lane free win.
Similar to a Cait + Lux lane, but Lux doesn't bring the initiate of Ashe Ult by any means, nor a permaslow. It's just a thought, really, something different to try. And you want to talk about level 6 combo? Ashe ult -> Headshot + Focus autos + Peacemaker + Volley + haha can't run away because slowed and Cait ults your Flash. The slows, free CV, and massive stun in Ashe's kit have always just screamed "support" to me.
Ashe has a strong lane phase if she's ahead, but if she gets behind she doesn't have the tools to catch back up. She's only safe while she's winning trades and once she starts losing them she has no real defensive tools. Varus in a similar boat.
Ashe's passive is just awful, and needs to be changed badly. Shiv helped it a little, but it's still just awful.
IMO let her ult crit so her passive gives you guaranteed crit arrow initiates. Her ult is cool but the late game damage is awful.
On February 06 2013 02:14 cLutZ wrote: Ashe needs lots of gold (imo) to do the Deeps compared to other ADs. Maybe they should buff her Hawkshot gold bonus.
She's similar to Cait in that her laning is strong, and she needs it to be because she needs to win lane. However, it's not as good as it was in days past thanks to some of the new ADs + Supports.
I want to try running a Cait + Ashe support lane. Aka: "Good luck not getting zoned out tee hee"
huh? Ashe does not have a strong lane phase. Also, for the most part, ashe really just has to keep up in cs, or at worst be a bit behind, to do just fine for the rest of the game.
Ashe has a pretty strong laning phase. She has a big range advantage over everyone but Caitlyn (who she is also strong against because she negates so much of Caitlyn's laning advantage), her Volley is a very strong poke/fighting spell with unrivalled range and utility, and no cast time (unlike the far inferior Piltover Peacemaker).
Ashe has pretty much the best gank assistance of all ADCs, with a permanent slow, a long range stun + slow and free bush vision. She is definitely weaker to ganks than many, but again her 1200 range AoE slow is pretty damn useful at kiting junglers, and I've seen a lot of tower dives turn into kills for Ashe with well timed ECAs.
Everyone bitches about Ashe's passive but it is just fine as far as I'm concerned. It is very common later in the game for ADCs to harass with an auto attack every 10+ seconds, and having that one attack be a guaranteed crit is a huge advantage.
On February 06 2013 02:14 cLutZ wrote: Ashe needs lots of gold (imo) to do the Deeps compared to other ADs. Maybe they should buff her Hawkshot gold bonus.
pleaso no, i already have a friend who instalocks ashe and maxes E as soon as he sees a TF in our team
Ashe's problem is your team needs to protect her. Her kit makes it so it's a very easy thing to do, but most people don't have that mentality in SoloQ.
"Oh we have an Ez, that means we can all dive and nobody has to peel and he'll be fine because he can blink around every 5 seconds."
"Oh we have an Ashe, you mean, we actually have to kite back with her? FORGET THAT DIVE THE CARRY WTF ASHE WHY FOCUS TANKS GG /FF"
I've been picking Ashe when the opponents pick Draven (Counter my MF, il show you), so far with moderate success, although i can't say for sure if Ashe is a counter to Draven, due to low sample size. So far i've done well, but with the difference in quality of supports and the small sample size, no conclusions can be made.
a large part of ashe's problem is her perception, a lot of junglers will just refuse to gank your lane since they see you as "weak" when one of ashe's biggest selling points is the easiest ganks ever.
On February 06 2013 02:14 cLutZ wrote: Ashe needs lots of gold (imo) to do the Deeps compared to other ADs. Maybe they should buff her Hawkshot gold bonus.
pleaso no, i already have a friend who instalocks ashe and maxes E as soon as he sees a TF in our team
Provided you dont get totally zoned, thats actually gonna give you alot of gold. I like doing it tbh ._.
On February 06 2013 03:35 VayneAuthority wrote: a large part of ashe's problem is her perception, a lot of junglers will just refuse to gank your lane since they see you as "weak" when one of ashe's biggest selling points is the easiest ganks ever.
Yeah. Near-guaranteed 2+ sec stun no matter how far away they get AND permaslow? (Ulti even 50%slows the other guy if theyre nearby, doublekill pls) It's like "hi, jungler just walk up to them, land your skillshots for free, and murder." Has to be literally THE BEST gank assist of any carry in the game, unless you count Urgot.
I must say Ashe does get some decent benefits from the Season 3 items. Static Shiv synergy with her passive has already been mentioned, but also the new avarice blade is pretty nice with her E as you get a ton of bonus gold per kill. Lastly, furor enchanted boots are pretty sick on her too, you can kite pretty much anything with those babies.
On February 06 2013 03:35 VayneAuthority wrote: a large part of ashe's problem is her perception, a lot of junglers will just refuse to gank your lane since they see you as "weak" when one of ashe's biggest selling points is the easiest ganks ever.
Yeah. Near-guaranteed 2+ sec stun no matter how far away they get AND permaslow? (Ulti even 50%slows the other guy if theyre nearby, doublekill pls) It's like "hi, jungler just walk up to them, land your skillshots for free, and murder." Has to be literally THE BEST gank assist of any carry in the game, unless you count Urgot.
Her gank assist is actually better then Urgot's considering how his ult has a prohibitively short range at early ranks nowadays.
On February 06 2013 02:14 cLutZ wrote: Ashe needs lots of gold (imo) to do the Deeps compared to other ADs. Maybe they should buff her Hawkshot gold bonus.
pleaso no, i already have a friend who instalocks ashe and maxes E as soon as he sees a TF in our team
Provided you dont get totally zoned, thats actually gonna give you alot of gold. I like doing it tbh ._.
You don't need to be totally zoned. You will almost certainly lose a few creeps if you're maxing a totally useless non combat skill first, and all it takes is losing two creeps a minute to undo all the bonus gold from max rank Hawkshot. In virtually every scenario maxing E will lose you gold.
ashe being perceived as a weak laner is a purely psychological thing. her W is extremely reliable and can be both used to engage or disengage. it is also an instant cast so you don't lose auto dps. ashes huge range with AA and W makes her a very solid laner. there are setups you don't want to face like graves+taric but against virtually any other lane she can do alot of things to win her lane.
ashe is the perfect pick if you have strong fighter/bruiser type or assassin type champs in your team, who are good at dishing out a ton of damage but lack the utility to do so on their own.
On February 06 2013 03:29 57 Corvette wrote: I've been picking Ashe when the opponents pick Draven (Counter my MF, il show you), so far with moderate success, although i can't say for sure if Ashe is a counter to Draven, due to low sample size. So far i've done well, but with the difference in quality of supports and the small sample size, no conclusions can be made.
I think Ashe counters Draven as well, the slows just destroy everything that makes Draven Draven.
EPT
