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On February 05 2013 05:12 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 05:08 Ketara wrote:
No, it's a stupid system.
You could theoretically stay in the same division yet gain 1000 elo. Really dumb.
Hope they fix it soon. Wait, how does that work? Do you gain ELO when you lose or something? How can your MMR go up but your LP go down, or are you just talking averages?
It works because when you get demoted or lose a promotion series you drop a HUGE number of points.
For example, you can be at a promotion series, win 1 game, then lose 2. You drop down to like 50-70 points. Then you win the next 3 games to get back to a new promotion series. You've won 4 games and lost 2, gained MMR, but your league points have remained the same.
As long as you miraculously only ever lose promotion games but win everything else, you can theoretically gain an infinite amount of elo without your league points ever changing.
Obviously that won't happen long term, but it can happen short term, and it's frustrating and stupid. Yesterday I had a positive winrate and didn't gain any points at all, and today I'm 50/50 and yet have lost 50 points.
I'm sure it will settle itself out long term, but if their point was to make ranked more casual friendly and less stressful, it has failed because of this. Losing 50 points on a 50/50 winrate is absurd and counterintuitive to what I thought their intention was.
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I really like the new system except that I think it will be too easy for people to achieve Challenger tier. Getting Diamond in season 1 + 2 was a slugfest.. getting Diamond this season it was ridiculously easy and for how easy it is to gain league points atm Challenger tier seems inevitable.
Sorry if this come's off as extremely douchey.
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Ezreal might be nerfed, but he's still the anti-mage of LoL when it comes down to mobility, whereas if I play draven I will not have a flash on a 20s CD to position myself better in teamfights.
The choice is do I want a better teamfighting champ or a champ to stomp my lane really hard and end lane phase quickly while their adc is burried at 0/5/0 and 30cs behind.
Cause honestly, when I play duo q we always go for all-in lanes like taric graves or leona graves, and I want to play some ADC too, and my duo q partner only really plays taric as a support so I need an aggresive ADC, draven being quite retarded during early game makes him my favorite
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United States23745 Posts
On February 05 2013 05:27 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 05:12 Requizen wrote:On February 05 2013 05:08 Ketara wrote:
No, it's a stupid system.
You could theoretically stay in the same division yet gain 1000 elo. Really dumb.
Hope they fix it soon. Wait, how does that work? Do you gain ELO when you lose or something? How can your MMR go up but your LP go down, or are you just talking averages? It works because when you get demoted or lose a promotion series you drop a HUGE number of points. For example, you can be at a promotion series, win 1 game, then lose 2. You drop down to like 50-70 points. Then you win the next 3 games to get back to a new promotion series. You've won 4 games and lost 2, gained MMR, but your league points have remained the same. As long as you miraculously only ever lose promotion games but win everything else, you can theoretically gain an infinite amount of elo without your league points ever changing. Obviously that won't happen long term, but it can happen short term, and it's frustrating and stupid. Yesterday I had a positive winrate and didn't gain any points at all, and today I'm 50/50 and yet have lost 50 points. I'm sure it will settle itself out long term, but if their point was to make ranked more casual friendly and less stressful, it has failed because of this. Losing 50 points on a 50/50 winrate is absurd and counterintuitive to what I thought their intention was.
If you're Elo is that much higher than the people around you when you eventually win the promotion series you can jump up more than one division at a time.
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Hmm, that makes me wonder how matchmaking for placement matches work. The supposed purpose of placement matches is to make sure you're 'good enough' to advance to the next league, or are at least better than your current league, right? So the idea is that in the placement matches you're matched with people in your league/the next league up to prove that. If you win 2/3, you're better than them, and you move up.
...but if the placement matches are just matchmade like everything else based on your Elo, then you could be playing with diamond players trying to get into plat if you get unlucky enough in previous advancements. Which kind of defeats the purpose of the advancement matches other than just being some especially exciting series of games you get every once in a while. Maybe that's all they're trying to accomplish, though.
EDIT: okay, ignore everything I said b/c of the above post. Didn't know you could jump up more than one league at a time.
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On February 05 2013 04:36 obesechicken13 wrote:
So Nasus' Q adds 190 damage with 0 stacks on a 4s cooldown. It's not much different from the nerfed Jax's W. 180 damage on a 3s cooldown.
Nasus is fine. Go play some games with him and don't do some untested potentially troll full crit build. Even with Q critting your DPS is lower than a Trist with the same items and she's 10x safer than you. You can build just tank items and still do respectable damage. You can max E in losing lanes, get less stacks, and still clear as efficiently as Morg with 0 AP. "BUR HEALTH STACK OP" your ult does 75% of a target's life at max rank, and you don't have to be the most damaging champ on your team, you just have to be good enough.
I'm not really all that concerned about troll full crit builds. What does concern me is the fact that you can get a significant amount of crit while still building tanky. Nasus' late game was always good and didn't need buffing, but that's largely what was buffed by this change.
There's also the potential for Crit Rune-based lane builds, which aren't necessarily optimal but are extremely annoying to play against when the bastard hits the jackpot.
On February 05 2013 04:40 SidianTheBard wrote:
I always have fun with Nasus but his two main weaknesses are his laning and his ability to sit on someone. He has no escapes besides Wither so you are easily gankable in lane, especially if any of them have any form of CC. It gets even worse if they do a lane swap and you're stuck in a 1v2. You'll have no farmed Q, no farmed items, which means you have to build tanky at that point, which means you don't do any damage, which means you're useless. A couple posts up someone listed a lot of the other top laners you see, and even if they get shut down they still provide much more utility and/or ways to damage the enemy.
Critical to this discussion is the fact that Nasus can now stack Q as fast/faster in the jungle than he can in lane. In a one minute clear Nasus can stack 36 damage on Q. In one minute of laning Nasus can stack 36 damage on Q. They're identical, only in the jungle you don't have to worry about minions killing creeps faster than you can Q, lane opponents chasing you away, ganks, etc.
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United States23745 Posts
On February 05 2013 05:30 Chrispy wrote:
I really like the new system except that I think it will be too easy for people to achieve Challenger tier. Getting Diamond in season 1 + 2 was a slugfest.. getting Diamond this season it was ridiculously easy and for how easy it is to gain league points atm Challenger tier seems inevitable.
Sorry if this come's off as extremely douchey.
The nice thing about the Challenger tier is that it's only one division of 250 people and you can actually be demoted back to Diamond if there are people playing better than you. The top players might shift around and not really be in danger of falling out, but those near the bottom of the list will have to compete to stay in the tier.
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People knew about this ?
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=34184931#post34184931
Hey summoners,
We've identified an issue affecting many players in Division I of their tier in the new league system. These players were gaining very little LP from their wins, such that a single loss could wipe out the LP gains from two or even three wins. We've been working on this for the last several hours and now have a plan of attack. Here's an explanation:
What's going on?
There are some additional checks and balances that are applied to players in Division I because the system needs to be sure that they're ready to move to the next tier before they qualify for their Promotion Series. Because of this, LP gains can be clamped for Division I players if their MMR is far from where it needs to be for the next tier. This check was tuned too aggressively and was causing the reduced LP gains that many players were seeing.
Well it might explain some situations.
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On February 05 2013 05:35 Eiii wrote:
Hmm, that makes me wonder how matchmaking for placement matches work. The supposed purpose of placement matches is to make sure you're 'good enough' to advance to the next league, or are at least better than your current league, right? So the idea is that in the placement matches you're matched with people in your league/the next league up to prove that. If you win 2/3, you're better than them, and you move up.
...but if the placement matches are just matchmade like everything else based on your Elo, then you could be playing with diamond players trying to get into plat if you get unlucky enough in previous advancements. Which kind of defeats the purpose of the advancement matches other than just being some especially exciting series of games you get every once in a while. Maybe that's all they're trying to accomplish, though.
EDIT: okay, ignore everything I said b/c of the above post. Didn't know you could jump up more than one league at a time.
Still it is kind of weird that the MMR will try to get you matches where you are at 50/50 winquote completely unrelated to your leagues, which makes the whole promotion series incredibly weird because you basically have to play a BO3 with a 50% winchance to get promoted.
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On February 05 2013 05:32 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 05:27 Ketara wrote:On February 05 2013 05:12 Requizen wrote:On February 05 2013 05:08 Ketara wrote:
No, it's a stupid system.
You could theoretically stay in the same division yet gain 1000 elo. Really dumb.
Hope they fix it soon. Wait, how does that work? Do you gain ELO when you lose or something? How can your MMR go up but your LP go down, or are you just talking averages? It works because when you get demoted or lose a promotion series you drop a HUGE number of points. For example, you can be at a promotion series, win 1 game, then lose 2. You drop down to like 50-70 points. Then you win the next 3 games to get back to a new promotion series. You've won 4 games and lost 2, gained MMR, but your league points have remained the same. As long as you miraculously only ever lose promotion games but win everything else, you can theoretically gain an infinite amount of elo without your league points ever changing. Obviously that won't happen long term, but it can happen short term, and it's frustrating and stupid. Yesterday I had a positive winrate and didn't gain any points at all, and today I'm 50/50 and yet have lost 50 points. I'm sure it will settle itself out long term, but if their point was to make ranked more casual friendly and less stressful, it has failed because of this. Losing 50 points on a 50/50 winrate is absurd and counterintuitive to what I thought their intention was. If you're Elo is that much higher than the people around you when you eventually win the promotion series you can jump up more than one division at a time.
Yes and that's good, but it's not my point. In the short term it is possible to have a positive win rate, gain MMR, and lose points. That is a BAD system. It is not casual friendly at all, because there are going to be players who say "Wow, I had a really good day, won lots of games, and didn't advance in my division at all. Fuck ranked."
If they're going to hide your real MMR and give you a mystical points value that makes you feel good but doesn't actually do any matchmaking, it should at least make you feel good, not stress you out and piss you off while you're doing well.
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I really do fear that the EU West server issues will contine the next weeks. It reminds me of the time in late 2011 / early 2012 where the servers were too small for the ever growing community. Right now, they go down again. Always in the evening peak hours, it seems.
Maybe Riot didn't expect to have so many players when they set up the bigger servers and split them into west and north / east? Is it only West or East, too?
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On February 05 2013 05:35 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 04:36 obesechicken13 wrote:
So Nasus' Q adds 190 damage with 0 stacks on a 4s cooldown. It's not much different from the nerfed Jax's W. 180 damage on a 3s cooldown.
Nasus is fine. Go play some games with him and don't do some untested potentially troll full crit build. Even with Q critting your DPS is lower than a Trist with the same items and she's 10x safer than you. You can build just tank items and still do respectable damage. You can max E in losing lanes, get less stacks, and still clear as efficiently as Morg with 0 AP. "BUR HEALTH STACK OP" your ult does 75% of a target's life at max rank, and you don't have to be the most damaging champ on your team, you just have to be good enough. I'm not really all that concerned about troll full crit builds. What does concern me is the fact that you can get a significant amount of crit while still building tanky. Nasus' late game was always good and didn't need buffing, but that's largely what was buffed by this change. There's also the potential for Crit Rune-based lane builds, which aren't necessarily optimal but are extremely annoying to play against when the bastard hits the jackpot. Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 04:40 SidianTheBard wrote:
I always have fun with Nasus but his two main weaknesses are his laning and his ability to sit on someone. He has no escapes besides Wither so you are easily gankable in lane, especially if any of them have any form of CC. It gets even worse if they do a lane swap and you're stuck in a 1v2. You'll have no farmed Q, no farmed items, which means you have to build tanky at that point, which means you don't do any damage, which means you're useless. A couple posts up someone listed a lot of the other top laners you see, and even if they get shut down they still provide much more utility and/or ways to damage the enemy. Critical to this discussion is the fact that Nasus can now stack Q as fast/faster in the jungle than he can in lane. In a one minute clear Nasus can stack 36 damage on Q. In one minute of laning Nasus can stack 36 damage on Q. They're identical, only in the jungle you don't have to worry about minions killing creeps faster than you can Q, lane opponents chasing you away, ganks, etc.
Except his jungle clear is insanely slow if you're trying to max Q to farm the next small wolf for 3 damage (if you're maxing E).
If you max Q for faster stacking then your ganking suffers as does your general clearing speed.
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Monte what's this nasus q critical thing you guys are discussing? Intentional? Or a bug? Nasus was one of my first champs id like to revisit him
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United States23745 Posts
On February 05 2013 05:37 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 05:32 onlywonderboy wrote:On February 05 2013 05:27 Ketara wrote:On February 05 2013 05:12 Requizen wrote:On February 05 2013 05:08 Ketara wrote:
No, it's a stupid system.
You could theoretically stay in the same division yet gain 1000 elo. Really dumb.
Hope they fix it soon. Wait, how does that work? Do you gain ELO when you lose or something? How can your MMR go up but your LP go down, or are you just talking averages? It works because when you get demoted or lose a promotion series you drop a HUGE number of points. For example, you can be at a promotion series, win 1 game, then lose 2. You drop down to like 50-70 points. Then you win the next 3 games to get back to a new promotion series. You've won 4 games and lost 2, gained MMR, but your league points have remained the same. As long as you miraculously only ever lose promotion games but win everything else, you can theoretically gain an infinite amount of elo without your league points ever changing. Obviously that won't happen long term, but it can happen short term, and it's frustrating and stupid. Yesterday I had a positive winrate and didn't gain any points at all, and today I'm 50/50 and yet have lost 50 points. I'm sure it will settle itself out long term, but if their point was to make ranked more casual friendly and less stressful, it has failed because of this. Losing 50 points on a 50/50 winrate is absurd and counterintuitive to what I thought their intention was. If you're Elo is that much higher than the people around you when you eventually win the promotion series you can jump up more than one division at a time. Yes and that's good, but it's not my point. In the short term it is possible to have a positive win rate, gain MMR, and lose points. That is a BAD system. It is not casual friendly at all, because there are going to be players who say "Wow, I had a really good day, won lots of games, and didn't advance in my division at all. Fuck ranked." If they're going to hide your real MMR and give you a mystical points value that makes you feel good but doesn't actually do any matchmaking, it should at least make you feel good, not stress you out and piss you off while you're doing well.
Yeah, it requires a bit of extra knowledge to avoid frustration, which I agree is kind of the opposite of what they seemed like they wanted to do. But in the long term it does correct itself.
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On February 05 2013 05:37 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 05:32 onlywonderboy wrote:On February 05 2013 05:27 Ketara wrote:On February 05 2013 05:12 Requizen wrote:On February 05 2013 05:08 Ketara wrote:
No, it's a stupid system.
You could theoretically stay in the same division yet gain 1000 elo. Really dumb.
Hope they fix it soon. Wait, how does that work? Do you gain ELO when you lose or something? How can your MMR go up but your LP go down, or are you just talking averages? It works because when you get demoted or lose a promotion series you drop a HUGE number of points. For example, you can be at a promotion series, win 1 game, then lose 2. You drop down to like 50-70 points. Then you win the next 3 games to get back to a new promotion series. You've won 4 games and lost 2, gained MMR, but your league points have remained the same. As long as you miraculously only ever lose promotion games but win everything else, you can theoretically gain an infinite amount of elo without your league points ever changing. Obviously that won't happen long term, but it can happen short term, and it's frustrating and stupid. Yesterday I had a positive winrate and didn't gain any points at all, and today I'm 50/50 and yet have lost 50 points. I'm sure it will settle itself out long term, but if their point was to make ranked more casual friendly and less stressful, it has failed because of this. Losing 50 points on a 50/50 winrate is absurd and counterintuitive to what I thought their intention was. If you're Elo is that much higher than the people around you when you eventually win the promotion series you can jump up more than one division at a time. Yes and that's good, but it's not my point. In the short term it is possible to have a positive win rate, gain MMR, and lose points. That is a BAD system. It is not casual friendly at all, because there are going to be players who say "Wow, I had a really good day, won lots of games, and didn't advance in my division at all. Fuck ranked." If they're going to hide your real MMR and give you a mystical points value that makes you feel good but doesn't actually do any matchmaking, it should at least make you feel good, not stress you out and piss you off while you're doing well.
Pretty much this, though I do agree with the general sentiment that we should stop bitching about it and just take it in the bum like good little boys and girls. Riot has already said they'll be fixing the problem of demotions taking away so many points (I forget where I read it) or at least remove that 'bad feeling' people get, and MMR is working pretty much exactly the same way it used to.
Let's leave it at that.
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On February 04 2013 23:57 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2013 23:52 YouGotNothin wrote:
So if Nasus is OP now because of the jungle buff and the crit change, does that mean jungle Sion got a decent buff too as he at least benefited from the jungle change also?
Sion still bad because he doesn't scale well with AD or AP. Burst mage Sion full AP relies on your shield not being bursted down, AD Sion is too easily CC'd and doesn't do much early/mid game. He needs at least some reworking of his spells. Either his ult if they want to make him an AP carry, or his Q+W if they want to make him a viable bruisy jungler/laner.
Sion does plenty early game. A targeted stun coming out of the jungle is a brutal gank that nearly every champ can follow up on. With very little armor on the field he's doing enough right click damage to be relevant too. Mid game he's a great 1v1 duelist assuming his ult is up and you have phage to keep them on you. It's early late game where he falls off, gets kited in teamfights etc. This is particularly noticeable in the jungle where he doesn't get as much farm. Still he's a good peeler for an ad carry, and stall the game out and he becomes stupidly difficult to stop.
I don't think he needs much of a rework either, at least not as AD. He has one of the best cc tools in the game and more value in his kit steroid wise than any other champion. Only thing I don't like is the healing range of his ult is 200 or something really stupid.
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Also I have been facing a great problem recently :
The lack of good bot lane streamers.
I mean, I kinda like RobertxLee, but other than him I never see some great ADC/Supp streaming
I live in GMT +1 tho, so that might explain a bit, but still, it really feels like half the streams are Top laners ( Hsgg, Voyman, Rain man, dyrus, wickd are the big ones ) and then there are mid laners ( scarra, Plord, salce, bjergsen, froggen )
Is it just my lack of streamers knowledge or is it really a problem ?
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EU west down (again) just give out free transfers already...
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Main problem with Sion is simply he is one of the burstiest of burst mages. He is godlike when no one has HP but sucks donkey dick the second anyone gets a ruby crystal. He had the same problem in seasons 1 and 2 that he has now. Its just back then you could go Mob boots and win the game before anyone got enough health to live. Now health is cheaper.
Its the same problem every burst mage has nowadays. His problems are just amplified.
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On February 05 2013 05:39 little fancy wrote:
I really do fear that the EU West server issues will contine the next weeks. It reminds me of the time in late 2011 / early 2012 where the servers were too small for the ever growing community. Right now, they go down again. Always in the evening peak hours, it seems.
Maybe Riot didn't expect to have so many players when they set up the bigger servers and split them into west and north / east? Is it only West or East, too?
from what i read on reddit east has no problems. the servers are physically in the same place so it cant be a bandwidth issue. Still no one know why our server just shits himself everyday
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EPT
