EPT[Patch 3.01: Season 3] General Discussion - Page 78
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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Gaslo
Finland951 Posts
Why go in without a initiate, or why go in with the intetion on running past everyone else, just to hit that ADC. Nasus could prolly be decent with just withering for your own ADC, and using your armor shred + huge damage from Q +R to destroy the guys that come close. But i don't know, havent played a singe game of nasus S3. :I | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:23 Slayer91 wrote: how about you guys dont rush in 1v5 on a champion without an initiate seems to work for everyone else It's the same when going in for a teamfight, I'd argue. It doesn't take the entire team CCing you to make you less useful, one Cleanse/QSS/Crucible on the person you Wither and a Taric Stun and now Nasus is more or less out of the teamfight. You're riding a lot on "the Withered AD carry is going to be useless" and "I can reach them to blow them up with Q". The downsides of that are just as downsidetastic in a 1v1, 2v2, or 5v5 situation. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:34 Gaslo wrote: Just out of interest, do you guys think that all melee guys have the same problem? Like i could use that "Just use CC on him when he suddenly jumps your team and he is useless" on many guys that people still play. Why go in without a initiate, or why go in with the intetion on running past everyone else, just to hit that ADC. Nasus could prolly be decent with just withering for your own ADC, and using your armor shred + huge damage from Q +R to destroy the guys that come close. But i don't know, havent played a singe game of nasus S3. :I Name me another currently viable tank/bruiser (whatever) that doesn't have a reasonably low CD gap closer, hard CC (especially those that can be applied at a range), or both. Olaf counts, but his Ult makes the difference in the whole "just kite the bruiser" philosophy, and his ranged slow is more or less permanent if you're good at landing axes. Darius and Garen count, but you still see little of them in high level play for the same reason. Yeah you see Darius more often, but then again a rather long range AoE displacement and a reset-able true damage nuke that doesn't require farm seems a bit more powerful than Wither and Q. Jax and Irelia have both a gap closer (on dumb short CDs) and hard CCs, Lee has both, Cho has the ranged hard CC, Malphite has both on his ult, Shen has both on his taunt (not to mention much more powerful teamfight utility), Kha has the jump and a ranged slow (not as good as Wither, but AoE and also applies on his autos, Elise has both, Jayce has both, Jarvan has both. Now, does listing them make Nasus any weaker? No, I'd argue the reason these champions see a lot of high level play and champs like Nasus (or Sion, for that matter) don't, is because they have the kit that lets them remain relevant. Even if you get Nasus to super strong point with Q farm and items, he still has the issue of having neither an instant ranged gap closer nor a hard CC. If you throw a CC on Cho, he can still Rupture at range when it wears off. If you CC after Malph ults, he already initiated and is in range to slow/AS slow the AD. If you CC Jax/Irelia, they'll just jump again a second later and stun. The reason some bruisers see a lot of play and others see none is because those elements of a kit are so strong and defining that it's hard to remain relevant without them. | ||
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discator
Germany639 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On February 05 2013 01:52 Seuss wrote: There are far too many ways to get around the kiting problem for that to be an adequate answer to "I think big dog is a pretty cool guy. Eh one shots enemys and doesnt afraid of anything." You'll be vindicated if Riot doesn't fix the bug, it's only a matter of time. The problem with support Garen/Darius is they have absolutely nothing useful to offer if you fall behind. That's a fatal flaw for any support. Well, most supports become useless if they fall behind. Others might offer more utility, but they're all so squishy no matter what. A couple levels and 2k gold down and you're pretty irrelevant. Garen is pretty derped if you don't destroy lane (comes with being ezmode 450 ip top lane I guess), Darius is a pretty good pubstomper b/c people always underestimate his pull range and the deeps. I don't know how I feel about Maokai/Thresh. He still has one of the best point and click stun/root whatevers in the game with a huge range. I think Thresh is better with junglers which have skillshots or need a gapcloser, ex. J4, Olaf, Cho, Mundo. On the other hand, Maokai can almost guarantee a Thresh pull... pros cons meh. I think there's a handful of tops that can make good supports and a handful of supports that can be good tops, though its also kind of dependent on the rest of the team. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:37 Requizen wrote: It's the same when going in for a teamfight, I'd argue. It doesn't take the entire team CCing you to make you less useful, one Cleanse/QSS/Crucible on the person you Wither and a Taric Stun and now Nasus is more or less out of the teamfight. You're riding a lot on "the Withered AD carry is going to be useless" and "I can reach them to blow them up with Q". The downsides of that are just as downsidetastic in a 1v1, 2v2, or 5v5 situation. Nasus is effectively unkiteable in 1v1 and 2v2. in 5v5 you W their AD carry and oyu dont dive him if he has cleanse up and taric stun up, you just protect your own ad carry and spam W on their ad you're mostly riding a lot on you surving a teamfight and being able to clean up because of 20% lifesteal +your ults aoe damage and ad steal and you just need W to keep the fight even at the start. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On February 05 2013 03:02 Slayer91 wrote: You mention Taric, but he's not exactly king of peel support. He's probably one of the better things to pick nasus into.Nasus is effectively unkiteable in 1v1 and 2v2. in 5v5 you W their AD carry and oyu dont dive him if he has cleanse up and taric stun up, you just protect your own ad carry and spam W on their ad you're mostly riding a lot on you surving a teamfight and being able to clean up because of 20% lifesteal +your ults aoe damage and ad steal and you just need W to keep the fight even at the start. What's nasus going to do against an AD with Lulu / Janna-peel quality support (esp once they get CDR)? You're not the only one with high % slows. He's just so ... peel-able. I could see him be quite strong against teams with insufficient peel though. Pushback is particularly hard for the dog to deal with. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On February 05 2013 03:00 ticklishmusic wrote: Well, most supports become useless if they fall behind. Others might offer more utility, but they're all so squishy no matter what. A couple levels and 2k gold down and you're pretty irrelevant. Garen is pretty derped if you don't destroy lane (comes with being ezmode 450 ip top lane I guess), Darius is a pretty good pubstomper b/c people always underestimate his pull range and the deeps. I don't know how I feel about Maokai/Thresh. He still has one of the best point and click stun/root whatevers in the game with a huge range. I think Thresh is better with junglers which have skillshots or need a gapcloser, ex. J4, Olaf, Cho, Mundo. On the other hand, Maokai can almost guarantee a Thresh pull... pros cons meh. I think there's a handful of tops that can make good supports and a handful of supports that can be good tops, though its also kind of dependent on the rest of the team. Not at all, you could literally be 0-15 and win a teamfight for your team with janna/lulu/zyra/blitz etc. They don't just provide more utility, they provide monstrously more utillity. Being squishy doesn't matter at all. Garen literally has a silence and damage, if he is doing shitty thats a single silence and basically nothing. Thats a big difference from like Janna with a huge AOE knockup, solid base value shield that gives 2k gold worth of AD, a massive permaslow, and a massive displacement ult that can reset an entire fight. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On February 05 2013 03:19 sylverfyre wrote: You mention Taric, but he's not exactly king of peel support. He's probably one of the better things to pick nasus into. What's nasus going to do against an AD with Lulu / Janna-peel quality support (esp once they get CDR)? You're not the only one with high % slows. He's just so ... peel-able. I could see him be quite strong against teams with insufficient peel though. Pushback is particularly hard for the dog to deal with. His point applies just as much to Lulu/Janna as it does to Taric. If you're not going to catch them after you Wither, don't bother and work on wiping out someone who can't afford to keep their distance. So long as your team has a followup CC to keep the enemy carry in check after they Cleanse/QSS then you'll be fine. It's not like the enemy tanks/bruisers/assassins will be able to shrug off 2k raw damage from Q crits every 2.4 seconds. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On February 05 2013 03:32 Seuss wrote: His point applies just as much to Lulu/Janna as it does to Taric. If you're not going to catch them after you Wither, don't bother and work on wiping out someone who can't afford to keep their distance. So long as your team has a followup CC to keep the enemy carry in check after they Cleanse/QSS then you'll be fine. It's not like the enemy tanks/bruisers/assassins will be able to shrug off 2k raw damage from Q crits every 2.4 seconds. Nasus ideally wants to Wither a high-priority target who autos and go for that target. People seem to forget that if he can't get to said target he is still massively useful if farmed. He is an AoE damage monster with his ultimate on, and can absorb a fair amount of cc and damage for your team, not unlike Cho'gath, and dish out a lot of damage himself, even without the Q crit bug. Sure, he can be kited, but his ultimate lasts quite a long time and if you force the enemy team to blow all sorts of cc on you to keep you away then that leave room for any assassins or champs on your team who actually HAVE gap-closers to do their jobs. Not to mention he demolishes towers like no one else. | ||
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ProV1
United States980 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On February 05 2013 02:23 Slayer91 wrote: how about you guys dont rush in 1v5 on a champion without an initiate seems to work for everyone else this is the smartest thing i've read so far no sarcasm either | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
This simply isn't the case with Nasus. He has % max HP AoE magic damage that provides a threat against even tankier champs, one of the strongest point-and-click disables in the game that virtually takes the enemy AD out of the fight for the duration from 700 range, and one of the strongest armor reduction spells in the game that's also attached to high baseline magic damage (it instantaneously reduces the same amount of armor that a max-duration channeled Gatling Gun does). And now the crit scaling on his Q allows him to be a damage threat even to tankier champs. There's absolutely nothing about his kit that requires him to dive an enemy AD to be a threat. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Now I think it's pretty stupid. | ||
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Soloside
United States1238 Posts
But I'm now signed with Pulse Esports. :D | ||
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