EPTIf the thought is they are too efficient compared to the core offensive/defensive items then I could understand nerfing the cost-efficiency, but I don't think they need to try and force them truly jungler-only items.
[Patch 3.01: Season 3] General Discussion - Page 185
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OhNeverMind
United States90 Posts
If the thought is they are too efficient compared to the core offensive/defensive items then I could understand nerfing the cost-efficiency, but I don't think they need to try and force them truly jungler-only items. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Also I can confirm the "change your keybindings" crash bug.  | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On February 14 2013 02:46 OhNeverMind wrote: I don't understand why it is a bad thing for the spirit stone items to be situationally good on some laners. I never thought that wriggles on some top laners was a huge issue either (except when it was so efficient that there were 3 per team). As long as you give up some opportunity costs in other stats in exchange for the spirit stone items I think it is a good thing to have some laners want to build them. If the thought is they are too efficient compared to the core offensive/defensive items then I could understand nerfing the cost-efficiency, but I don't think they need to try and force them truly jungler-only items. The reason there needs to be (in my opinion) jungler only items is, well, because jungling itemization can suck. It's why support junglers have always been popular, because they can make do with low items if they don't get kills/assists/lots of farm. So you want an item that junglers can afford, but is also very effective and can last them all game long (i.e. not Doran's items). However, if they're too effective, then laners will just buy them and then junglers, despite having a nice item, will be behind the power curve once again. In an attempt to keep junglers from just falling off (at best, being useless at worst) in the late game, they need to keep up with the effective power level of laners either via their kit (Amumu, for instance), or via items. So effectively, you want an item that's good enough to last all game long, without being an insta-buy for a laner, but is still affordable for a jungler since they're going to be behind gold-wise all game. Balancing act. | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
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red_
United States8474 Posts
Make sense of that, system theory dudes. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
well this sucks, the 3 champs I mainly enjoy to play at the moment, Vi because she's fun and Vi[edit:Xin] and J4 just got 2 new badass skins, While I agree that Vi and Xin are one of the stronger picks at the moment ( not balance wise imo but just they are so popular) but why the hell is J4 considered OP now? | ||
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Louuster
Canada2869 Posts
On February 14 2013 02:58 AsmodeusXI wrote: I just saw Voyboy lose LP for winning a game in Challenger. L0L. =P That was pretty funny lol | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On February 14 2013 02:59 AsnSensation wrote: http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/23142-the-news-roundup-vi-xin-zhao-and-jarvan-iv-to-be well this sucks, the 3 champs I mainly enjoy to play at the moment, Vi because she's fun and Vi and J4 just got 2 new badass skins, While I agree that Vi and Xin are one of the stronger picks at the moment ( not balance wise imo but just they are so popular) but why the hell is J4 considered OP now? Wait, you don't think Xin and Vi are strong balance wise, but just popular 'because.' I don't even know where to start with that, especially for Xin(not that Vi is weak). | ||
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OhNeverMind
United States90 Posts
My opinion is that having the option for laners to build in such a way that they can exert extra control over jungle farm (counter-jungling or just their own jungle while the jungler ganks/counterjungles) opens up additional options for playstyles and builds. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
A lvl 15 Jarvan has 1770 base health, without factoring any masteries or runes. WIth a warmogs he sits on 2770 health, and if he decides to get a black cleaver he will get 2970 health. Now the requirements for atma's is: Avarice blade - 800g for 10% crit and passive gp10 Chain vest - 720g for 40 armor. The upgrade will grant him, 5% crit, 5 armor and 44,5 ad for 780g upgrade. But in fact he gets 2130 gold worth of stats. It seems that, though atma's got nerfed, warmog's health got heavily buffed and with every bruiser nowadays stacking hp, atma's is actually insanely good, though crit is a somewhat awkward stat. | ||
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On February 14 2013 02:59 AsnSensation wrote: http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/23142-the-news-roundup-vi-xin-zhao-and-jarvan-iv-to-be well this sucks, the 3 champs I mainly enjoy to play at the moment, Vi because she's fun and Vi and J4 just got 2 new badass skins, While I agree that Vi and Xin are one of the stronger picks at the moment ( not balance wise imo but just they are so popular) but why the hell is J4 considered OP now? It sucks, but honestly w/e. There's no way they'll be able to remove their utility, so it's probably damage. And I'm fine with that. As long as I can still dunk. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
On February 14 2013 03:01 red_ wrote: Wait, you don't think Xin and Vi are strong balance wise, but just popular 'because.' I don't even know where to start with that, especially for Xin(not that Vi is weak). I don't think Xin and Vi are OP if that's what you mean, yeah. Just that Xin has seen tons of play because of Diamondprox and the other pro players that started playing him after Katowice. Same for Xj9 stomping every game with Vi. If you look at lolking you'll notice Vi has a perfect 50% winrate. I mean it's understandable if you wanna argue that Xin and Vi are OP, it's your opinion but it boggles my mind what's wrong with Jarvan? | ||
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Mondeezy
United States1938 Posts
On February 14 2013 02:59 AsnSensation wrote: http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/23142-the-news-roundup-vi-xin-zhao-and-jarvan-iv-to-be well this sucks, the 3 champs I mainly enjoy to play at the moment, Vi because she's fun and Vi and J4 just got 2 new badass skins, While I agree that Vi and Xin are one of the stronger picks at the moment ( not balance wise imo but just they are so popular) but why the hell is J4 considered OP now? I think Xin is a little too good atm but not like blatantly op. the most I can see them doing is very slightly nerfing Qdamage or E slow. Vi is fine imo, it's nice to actually see her getting some playtime as compared to a month ago when nobody played her. Lastly, I think J4 is completely fine where he stands. Doesn't do stupid damage and has his cons plus requires good ult placement. I feel like his set is a tad too buggy though so hopefully they fix that. | ||
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
On February 14 2013 02:58 red_ wrote: So Voy just lost 12 LP for winning a game. Make sense of that, system theory dudes. I dont think he really lost the points, if you looked it dropped him into the 120's but when he checked his league standing he was at 149. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On February 14 2013 03:02 AsmodeusXI wrote: It sucks, but honestly w/e. There's no way they'll be able to remove their utility, so it's probably damage. And I'm fine with that. As long as I can still dunk. No way they can remove their utility? They can nerf Jarvan's free armor aura/AS aura/armor reduction/knockup time/shield slow/ult duration and xin's slow/slowduration/ult knockback/passive armor reduction/knockup time. There's TONS of ways to nerf their utility and I didn't even touch stats like ability cooldowns, range, or AoE that might severely change your team fight or nerf both utility and damage at the same time. It's not like they haven't outright removed utility before (Ez W) so how exactly can they not nerf these things now? | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On February 14 2013 02:53 Requizen wrote: The reason there needs to be (in my opinion) jungler only items is, well, because jungling itemization can suck. It's why support junglers have always been popular, because they can make do with low items if they don't get kills/assists/lots of farm. So you want an item that junglers can afford, but is also very effective and can last them all game long (i.e. not Doran's items). However, if they're too effective, then laners will just buy them and then junglers, despite having a nice item, will be behind the power curve once again. In an attempt to keep junglers from just falling off (at best, being useless at worst) in the late game, they need to keep up with the effective power level of laners either via their kit (Amumu, for instance), or via items. So effectively, you want an item that's good enough to last all game long, without being an insta-buy for a laner, but is still affordable for a jungler since they're going to be behind gold-wise all game. Balancing act. The balancing act seems to be more complex than it is worth, considering the simple solutions that would actually open the jungle to more champs, more playstyles, and actually achieve the "goals" Riot set out before they made the S3 changes. | ||
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On February 14 2013 03:16 phyvo wrote: No way they can remove their utility? They can nerf Jarvan's free armor aura/AS aura/armor reduction/knockup time/shield slow/ult duration and xin's slow/slowduration/ult knockback/passive armor reduction/knockup time. There's TONS of ways to nerf their utility and I didn't even touch stats like ability cooldowns, range, or AoE that might severely change your team fight or nerf both utility and damage at the same time. It's not like they haven't outright removed utility before (Ez W) so how exactly can they not nerf these things now? I just genuinely feel like they won't change they way the champions are played because they're already fun and I think they know that. Part of being those champs is being able to jump in and wreak havoc, and I don't think they'll change that. And that's what makes them most useful (to me). So I think that damage would be what goes. Plus, more than half of what I meant by that is they can't really change J4's ult and how useful it is OR Vi's ult (without making it completely irrelevant, like by removing the CC immunity). I also think they wouldn't change Xin's ult because the remake was fairly recent with that. tl;dr - w/e could be totally naive or me, but I don't see much changing the CHAMPIONS themselves. idk | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On February 14 2013 03:05 AsnSensation wrote: I don't think Xin and Vi are OP if that's what you mean, yeah. Just that Xin has seen tons of play because of Diamondprox and the other pro players that started playing him after Katowice. Same for Xj9 stomping every game with Vi. If you look at lolking you'll notice Vi has a perfect 50% winrate. I mean it's understandable if you wanna argue that Xin and Vi are OP, it's your opinion but it boggles my mind what's wrong with Jarvan? Vi is bad in the lategame if you play her like Xj9. Xj9 plays to close out games. Xj9-wannabees play to... uh, they play and build stuff. So they don't use it efficiently. But if you understand Vi's limitations and powercurve with the different itemisations, then she's strong as hell. I just hope they'll nerf her early burst without hurting her ability to rely on W to stay relevant late game, that's the aspect I prefer in her—the pseudo raidboss that dunks bruisers. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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