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[Patch 3.01: Season 3] General Discussion - Page 185

Forum Index > LoL General
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OhNeverMind
Profile Joined October 2010
United States90 Posts
February 13 2013 17:46 GMT
#3681
I don't understand why it is a bad thing for the spirit stone items to be situationally good on some laners. I never thought that wriggles on some top laners was a huge issue either (except when it was so efficient that there were 3 per team). As long as you give up some opportunity costs in other stats in exchange for the spirit stone items I think it is a good thing to have some laners want to build them.

If the thought is they are too efficient compared to the core offensive/defensive items then I could understand nerfing the cost-efficiency, but I don't think they need to try and force them truly jungler-only items.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
February 13 2013 17:50 GMT
#3682
because you can just build philo stone..
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
February 13 2013 17:50 GMT
#3683
Random bit: I used my ult after Vi casted hers as Olaf, and still got suppressed when she reached me.

Also I can confirm the "change your keybindings" crash bug.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
February 13 2013 17:53 GMT
#3684
On February 14 2013 02:46 OhNeverMind wrote:
I don't understand why it is a bad thing for the spirit stone items to be situationally good on some laners. I never thought that wriggles on some top laners was a huge issue either (except when it was so efficient that there were 3 per team). As long as you give up some opportunity costs in other stats in exchange for the spirit stone items I think it is a good thing to have some laners want to build them.

If the thought is they are too efficient compared to the core offensive/defensive items then I could understand nerfing the cost-efficiency, but I don't think they need to try and force them truly jungler-only items.

The reason there needs to be (in my opinion) jungler only items is, well, because jungling itemization can suck. It's why support junglers have always been popular, because they can make do with low items if they don't get kills/assists/lots of farm. So you want an item that junglers can afford, but is also very effective and can last them all game long (i.e. not Doran's items).

However, if they're too effective, then laners will just buy them and then junglers, despite having a nice item, will be behind the power curve once again. In an attempt to keep junglers from just falling off (at best, being useless at worst) in the late game, they need to keep up with the effective power level of laners either via their kit (Amumu, for instance), or via items. So effectively, you want an item that's good enough to last all game long, without being an insta-buy for a laner, but is still affordable for a jungler since they're going to be behind gold-wise all game.

Balancing act.
It's your boy Guzma!
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
February 13 2013 17:58 GMT
#3685
I just saw Voyboy lose LP for winning a game in Challenger. L0L. =P
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
February 13 2013 17:58 GMT
#3686
So Voy just lost 12 LP for winning a game.

Make sense of that, system theory dudes.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-13 18:09:31
February 13 2013 17:59 GMT
#3687
http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/23142-the-news-roundup-vi-xin-zhao-and-jarvan-iv-to-be

well this sucks, the 3 champs I mainly enjoy to play at the moment, Vi because she's fun and Vi[edit:Xin] and J4 just got 2 new badass skins,

While I agree that Vi and Xin are one of the stronger picks at the moment ( not balance wise imo but just they are so popular) but why the hell is J4 considered OP now?
Louuster
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2869 Posts
February 13 2013 18:00 GMT
#3688
On February 14 2013 02:58 AsmodeusXI wrote:
I just saw Voyboy lose LP for winning a game in Challenger. L0L. =P


That was pretty funny lol
Kim Taek Yong fighting~
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
February 13 2013 18:01 GMT
#3689
On February 14 2013 02:59 AsnSensation wrote:
http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/23142-the-news-roundup-vi-xin-zhao-and-jarvan-iv-to-be

well this sucks, the 3 champs I mainly enjoy to play at the moment, Vi because she's fun and Vi and J4 just got 2 new badass skins,

While I agree that Vi and Xin are one of the stronger picks at the moment ( not balance wise imo but just they are so popular) but why the hell is J4 considered OP now?


Wait, you don't think Xin and Vi are strong balance wise, but just popular 'because.' I don't even know where to start with that, especially for Xin(not that Vi is weak).
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
OhNeverMind
Profile Joined October 2010
United States90 Posts
February 13 2013 18:01 GMT
#3690
Yeah I just don't think forcing them to be jungle-only items is necessary. I think having flexibility on who takes farm (jungle or lane) is good for the game as a whole. It may suck in solo queue if your laners screw over your farm but that is more of a problem with the players and not the game design.

My opinion is that having the option for laners to build in such a way that they can exert extra control over jungle farm (counter-jungling or just their own jungle while the jungler ganks/counterjungles) opens up additional options for playstyles and builds.

Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
February 13 2013 18:02 GMT
#3691
So what do people think of Atma's? I know it got nerfed, but a friend just enlightened me that you actually get some pretty decent AD for the upgrade.


A lvl 15 Jarvan has 1770 base health, without factoring any masteries or runes. WIth a warmogs he sits on 2770 health, and if he decides to get a black cleaver he will get 2970 health. Now the requirements for atma's is:

Avarice blade - 800g for 10% crit and passive gp10
Chain vest - 720g for 40 armor.


The upgrade will grant him, 5% crit, 5 armor and 44,5 ad for 780g upgrade. But in fact he gets 2130 gold worth of stats.

It seems that, though atma's got nerfed, warmog's health got heavily buffed and with every bruiser nowadays stacking hp, atma's is actually insanely good, though crit is a somewhat awkward stat.
hi
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
February 13 2013 18:02 GMT
#3692
On February 14 2013 02:59 AsnSensation wrote:
http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/23142-the-news-roundup-vi-xin-zhao-and-jarvan-iv-to-be

well this sucks, the 3 champs I mainly enjoy to play at the moment, Vi because she's fun and Vi and J4 just got 2 new badass skins,

While I agree that Vi and Xin are one of the stronger picks at the moment ( not balance wise imo but just they are so popular) but why the hell is J4 considered OP now?


It sucks, but honestly w/e. There's no way they'll be able to remove their utility, so it's probably damage. And I'm fine with that. As long as I can still dunk.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
February 13 2013 18:05 GMT
#3693
On February 14 2013 03:01 red_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 02:59 AsnSensation wrote:
http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/23142-the-news-roundup-vi-xin-zhao-and-jarvan-iv-to-be

well this sucks, the 3 champs I mainly enjoy to play at the moment, Vi because she's fun and Vi and J4 just got 2 new badass skins,

While I agree that Vi and Xin are one of the stronger picks at the moment ( not balance wise imo but just they are so popular) but why the hell is J4 considered OP now?


Wait, you don't think Xin and Vi are strong balance wise, but just popular 'because.' I don't even know where to start with that, especially for Xin(not that Vi is weak).



I don't think Xin and Vi are OP if that's what you mean, yeah. Just that Xin has seen tons of play because of Diamondprox and the other pro players that started playing him after Katowice. Same for Xj9 stomping every game with Vi. If you look at lolking you'll notice Vi has a perfect 50% winrate. I mean it's understandable if you wanna argue that Xin and Vi are OP, it's your opinion but it boggles my mind what's wrong with Jarvan?
Mondeezy
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1938 Posts
February 13 2013 18:07 GMT
#3694
On February 14 2013 02:59 AsnSensation wrote:
http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/23142-the-news-roundup-vi-xin-zhao-and-jarvan-iv-to-be

well this sucks, the 3 champs I mainly enjoy to play at the moment, Vi because she's fun and Vi and J4 just got 2 new badass skins,

While I agree that Vi and Xin are one of the stronger picks at the moment ( not balance wise imo but just they are so popular) but why the hell is J4 considered OP now?


I think Xin is a little too good atm but not like blatantly op. the most I can see them doing is very slightly nerfing Qdamage or E slow. Vi is fine imo, it's nice to actually see her getting some playtime as compared to a month ago when nobody played her. Lastly, I think J4 is completely fine where he stands. Doesn't do stupid damage and has his cons plus requires good ult placement. I feel like his set is a tad too buggy though so hopefully they fix that.
LoL NA: Mondeezy - TL - Riven <3
Shotcoder
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2316 Posts
February 13 2013 18:08 GMT
#3695
On February 14 2013 02:58 red_ wrote:
So Voy just lost 12 LP for winning a game.

Make sense of that, system theory dudes.


I dont think he really lost the points, if you looked it dropped him into the 120's but when he checked his league standing he was at 149.
Shotcoder - C+ BW Terran, Gold LoL(ADC Main)
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-13 18:20:48
February 13 2013 18:16 GMT
#3696
On February 14 2013 03:02 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 02:59 AsnSensation wrote:
http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/23142-the-news-roundup-vi-xin-zhao-and-jarvan-iv-to-be

well this sucks, the 3 champs I mainly enjoy to play at the moment, Vi because she's fun and Vi and J4 just got 2 new badass skins,

While I agree that Vi and Xin are one of the stronger picks at the moment ( not balance wise imo but just they are so popular) but why the hell is J4 considered OP now?


It sucks, but honestly w/e. There's no way they'll be able to remove their utility, so it's probably damage. And I'm fine with that. As long as I can still dunk.


No way they can remove their utility? They can nerf Jarvan's free armor aura/AS aura/armor reduction/knockup time/shield slow/ult duration and xin's slow/slowduration/ult knockback/passive armor reduction/knockup time. There's TONS of ways to nerf their utility and I didn't even touch stats like ability cooldowns, range, or AoE that might severely change your team fight or nerf both utility and damage at the same time.

It's not like they haven't outright removed utility before (Ez W) so how exactly can they not nerf these things now?
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
February 13 2013 18:20 GMT
#3697
On February 14 2013 02:53 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 02:46 OhNeverMind wrote:
I don't understand why it is a bad thing for the spirit stone items to be situationally good on some laners. I never thought that wriggles on some top laners was a huge issue either (except when it was so efficient that there were 3 per team). As long as you give up some opportunity costs in other stats in exchange for the spirit stone items I think it is a good thing to have some laners want to build them.

If the thought is they are too efficient compared to the core offensive/defensive items then I could understand nerfing the cost-efficiency, but I don't think they need to try and force them truly jungler-only items.

The reason there needs to be (in my opinion) jungler only items is, well, because jungling itemization can suck. It's why support junglers have always been popular, because they can make do with low items if they don't get kills/assists/lots of farm. So you want an item that junglers can afford, but is also very effective and can last them all game long (i.e. not Doran's items).

However, if they're too effective, then laners will just buy them and then junglers, despite having a nice item, will be behind the power curve once again. In an attempt to keep junglers from just falling off (at best, being useless at worst) in the late game, they need to keep up with the effective power level of laners either via their kit (Amumu, for instance), or via items. So effectively, you want an item that's good enough to last all game long, without being an insta-buy for a laner, but is still affordable for a jungler since they're going to be behind gold-wise all game.

Balancing act.


The balancing act seems to be more complex than it is worth, considering the simple solutions that would actually open the jungle to more champs, more playstyles, and actually achieve the "goals" Riot set out before they made the S3 changes.
Freeeeeeedom
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-13 18:24:43
February 13 2013 18:24 GMT
#3698
On February 14 2013 03:16 phyvo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 03:02 AsmodeusXI wrote:
On February 14 2013 02:59 AsnSensation wrote:
http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/23142-the-news-roundup-vi-xin-zhao-and-jarvan-iv-to-be

well this sucks, the 3 champs I mainly enjoy to play at the moment, Vi because she's fun and Vi and J4 just got 2 new badass skins,

While I agree that Vi and Xin are one of the stronger picks at the moment ( not balance wise imo but just they are so popular) but why the hell is J4 considered OP now?


It sucks, but honestly w/e. There's no way they'll be able to remove their utility, so it's probably damage. And I'm fine with that. As long as I can still dunk.


No way they can remove their utility? They can nerf Jarvan's free armor aura/AS aura/armor reduction/knockup time/shield slow/ult duration and xin's slow/slowduration/ult knockback/passive armor reduction/knockup time. There's TONS of ways to nerf their utility and I didn't even touch stats like ability cooldowns, range, or AoE that might severely change your team fight or nerf both utility and damage at the same time.

It's not like they haven't outright removed utility before (Ez W) so how exactly can they not nerf these things now?


I just genuinely feel like they won't change they way the champions are played because they're already fun and I think they know that. Part of being those champs is being able to jump in and wreak havoc, and I don't think they'll change that. And that's what makes them most useful (to me). So I think that damage would be what goes. Plus, more than half of what I meant by that is they can't really change J4's ult and how useful it is OR Vi's ult (without making it completely irrelevant, like by removing the CC immunity). I also think they wouldn't change Xin's ult because the remake was fairly recent with that.

tl;dr - w/e could be totally naive or me, but I don't see much changing the CHAMPIONS themselves. idk
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
February 13 2013 18:28 GMT
#3699
On February 14 2013 03:05 AsnSensation wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 03:01 red_ wrote:
On February 14 2013 02:59 AsnSensation wrote:
http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/23142-the-news-roundup-vi-xin-zhao-and-jarvan-iv-to-be

well this sucks, the 3 champs I mainly enjoy to play at the moment, Vi because she's fun and Vi and J4 just got 2 new badass skins,

While I agree that Vi and Xin are one of the stronger picks at the moment ( not balance wise imo but just they are so popular) but why the hell is J4 considered OP now?


Wait, you don't think Xin and Vi are strong balance wise, but just popular 'because.' I don't even know where to start with that, especially for Xin(not that Vi is weak).



I don't think Xin and Vi are OP if that's what you mean, yeah. Just that Xin has seen tons of play because of Diamondprox and the other pro players that started playing him after Katowice. Same for Xj9 stomping every game with Vi. If you look at lolking you'll notice Vi has a perfect 50% winrate. I mean it's understandable if you wanna argue that Xin and Vi are OP, it's your opinion but it boggles my mind what's wrong with Jarvan?

Vi is bad in the lategame if you play her like Xj9. Xj9 plays to close out games. Xj9-wannabees play to... uh, they play and build stuff. So they don't use it efficiently. But if you understand Vi's limitations and powercurve with the different itemisations, then she's strong as hell.
I just hope they'll nerf her early burst without hurting her ability to rely on W to stay relevant late game, that's the aspect I prefer in her—the pseudo raidboss that dunks bruisers.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
February 13 2013 18:31 GMT
#3700
The real issue is still Riot trying to fix "OP" champs when they've only been under the spotlight for under a month.
Moderator
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