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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On February 08 2013 00:46 sylverfyre wrote: Thinking maybe we should make a thread for the TL LoL fantasy league at this point - just so there's a centralized place with the information. Also because the inevitable gloating, cursing, and one-upping is going to get cray. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
1) You aren't really rewarded for finding "sleeper" players that are underrated, because it still counts their increased value against your team's total value (rather than their buying price). If your total team value goes above 100 gold, you become unable to earn points. You're not rewarded for discovering players early and having a stable lineup. 2) Players are scored based solely on KDA. You don't even get points based on winning or normalized by champion. Coupled with the fact that kills are worth more than assists means that it's favorable to pick 5 selfish players that have a high priority on their team and are likely to get lots of kills. KDAs really should be normalized by champion tbh. Certain champs inherently are more likely to get kills and die less. Particularly among top laners, carry/anti-carry top laners are far more likely to get kills than tank/initiator top laners. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On February 08 2013 01:03 TheYango wrote: TBH after going through their FAQ, there are some things I find quite flawed: 1) You aren't really rewarded for finding "sleeper" players that are underrated, because it still counts their increased value against your team's total value (rather than their buying price). If your total team value goes above 100 gold, you become unable to earn points. You're not rewarded for having a stable lineup. 2) Players are scored based solely on KDA. You don't even get points based on winning or normalized by champion. Coupled with the fact that kills are worth more than assists means that it's favorable to pick 5 selfish players that have a high priority on their team and are likely to get lots of kills. KDAs really should be normalized by champion tbh. Certain champs inherently are more likely to get kills. Particularly among top laners, carry/anti-carry top laners are far more likely to get kills than tank/initiator top laners. Yep totally flawed, but it's the best we got right now, might as well have fun with it. The first point bothers me more than the second. If you have to pick players that are selfish than that's just part of this game. I looked over the Dota 2 Fantasy stuff you talked about a while ago and the amount of work it would take to implement champion specific scoring would immense. Even if Riot implements their own Fantasy League for the second half of the reason I doubt they will even do this. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Though it's true, normalized champion data requires someone gathering that data. Dota-academy already did that, which is why it was straightforward for them to use that data in implementing their fantasy league. At the point where you have aggregate KDA statistics for each champion, it's straightforward to assign point values to certain numbers of kills/deaths/assists (with concessions made to having not enough data for certain champions--part of the reason it worked better for DotA is because in DotA, patch cycles are much longer, so you have longer periods of time to collect "relevant" data). Wasn't elobuff aggregating tournament statistics for a while? | ||
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justiceknight
Singapore5741 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/thefrog_/aaa_zpsebff2d75.jpg) and custom skins lol | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 08 2013 01:16 onlywonderboy wrote: Not sure I agree with that. Maybe it's the nature of the sport, but in fantasy football a receiver can have a crazy good 20 point day and still lose the game. Fantasy sports are more about individual performances rather than team efforts. The problem is that there are roles/champs where actually winning the game is more indicative of how well they played than having a good KDA. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On February 08 2013 01:16 onlywonderboy wrote: Not sure I agree with that. Maybe it's the nature of the sport, but in fantasy football a receiver can have a crazy good 20 point day and still lose the game. Fantasy sports are more about individual performances rather than team efforts. In fantasy "real" sports all the roles have different metrics (for example fantasy basketball has a million different score bucket for points in rebounds, assists, etc) Furthermore, improvements individually will always aid the team as a whole. Froggen-style Lee Mid play where he hogs all the farm and hogs all the kills will gain a ton of points in this fantasy system, but is actually detrimental to the overall outcome of his team | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On February 08 2013 01:18 TheYango wrote: The problem is that there are roles/champs where actually winning the game is more indicative of how well they played than having a good KDA. Fair point, I think champion specific scoring would help alleviate that problem like you mentioned. Or at least more specialized scoring across roles, more than just supports getting one less point for a kill over the ADC. On February 08 2013 01:22 xes wrote: In fantasy "real" sports all the roles have different metrics (for example fantasy basketball has a million different score bucket for points in rebounds, assists, etc) Furthermore, improvements individually will always aid the team as a whole. Froggen-style Lee Mid play where he hogs all the farm and hogs all the kills will gain a ton of points in this fantasy system, but is actually detrimental to the overall outcome of his team I know there's been a lot of "Froggen takes too much farm" sentiment on this board recently, and for the most part I agree, but there have also been plenty of examples of him taking tons of farm and then carrying the games. So having him hog the farm doesn't inherently hurt the team, they are just putting all of their eggs in one basket, that's just how they have decided to play the game. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 08 2013 01:23 onlywonderboy wrote: I know there's been a lot of "Froggen takes too much farm" sentiment on this board recently, and for the most part I agree, but there have also been plenty of examples of him taking tons of farm and then carrying the games. So having him hog the farm doesn't inherently hurt the team, they are just putting all of their eggs in one basket, that's just how they have decided to play the game. He still has a point. EG's playstyle inherently causes Froggen to earn more points, irrespective of whether he's actually playing better than other mid players, simply because he has a higher farm priority. The system should try to normalize for that--and avoid having players that are better buys solely because their team plays a certain way. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
On February 08 2013 01:26 TheYango wrote: Or the fact that CS is even relevant to support score at all, lol. He's not making a value judgement on that. He's just pointing out that EG's playstyle inherently causes Froggen to earn more points, irrespective of whether he's actually playing better than other mid players, simply because he has a higher farm priority. The system should try to normalize for that--and avoid having players that are better buys solely because their team plays a certain way. Doesn't it do that already? If Froggen farms like a boss for the first 3 weeks LCS then his fantasy gold cost increases which would require one to sacrifice gold from their other 4 picks. It seems plenty balanced to me. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 08 2013 01:32 Ghost-z wrote: Doesn't it do that already? If Froggen farms like a boss for the first 3 weeks LCS then his fantasy gold cost increases which would require one to sacrifice gold from their other 4 picks. It seems plenty balanced to me. That feeds into the other issue I raised which is that you're not rewarded for having a stable roster. Having "sleeper" players perform well requires you to suddenly reform your roster, rather than being rewarded for having foresight about who will be good and keeping a stable roster. The system favors gaming short-term swings in performance rather than having long-term foresight about a player's value, which seems more random overall. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
Yellowpete nRated Voyboy mandatorycloud Brokenshard | ||
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JALbert
United States484 Posts
On February 08 2013 01:18 TheYango wrote: The problem is that there are roles/champs where actually winning the game is more indicative of how well they played than having a good KDA. Fantasy sports are about gaudy numbers in simple stats, not effectively measuring player contribution. There are plenty of basketball players I love who are crap in my fantasy league, and fantasy studs I wouldn't like to have if I were a real GM. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
On February 08 2013 01:34 TheYango wrote: That feeds into the other issue I raised which is that you're not rewarded for having a stable roster. Having "sleeper" players perform well requires you to suddenly reform your roster, rather than being rewarded for having foresight about who will be good and keeping a stable roster. This I agree with. It would be better if your teams total gold value inflates above 100 you should still be able to keep that same lineup and score points. But should you choose to re-arrange your lineup you would be forced to the 100 gold salary cap again. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On February 08 2013 01:34 TheYango wrote: That feeds into the other issue I raised which is that you're not rewarded for having a stable roster. Having "sleeper" players perform well requires you to suddenly reform your roster, rather than being rewarded for having foresight about who will be good and keeping a stable roster. The system favors gaming short-term swings in performance rather than having long-term foresight about a player's value, which seems more random overall. Fair point, it's not anywhere close to a perfect system. By all means I'd love something closer to what you want, but at the same time I'm not gonna turn down the system just because it isn't exactly what we want, might as well just have fun with it *shrug* | ||
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DaBears57
United States300 Posts
Doublelift GoSu Pepper Zionspartan Regi Nintendude Hoping doublelift can pull off some pentas! | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
And yeah, the system is far from perfect (I don't see how you can disagree with Yango's 2 major points) but it's what we got. | ||
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