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On December 20 2012 10:14 Ketara wrote:
It's really sad that I was able to figure out what that picture is.
i still dont see it
is it a Ganymede Rock Lobster?
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On December 20 2012 10:02 Alaric wrote:
It's known, Ryze's a beast.
Jungled Vi, managed to do it with 0-9-21 masteries and a flask+machete start, even though I had to back after level 4 (road to double buff + wraiths, no gols).
ohmygodohmygodohmygodshe'sSOOOOOOOOOfun
I can jump everywheeeeeeeeeeeeeerre! Went QWEQ R>Q>W>E because I'm dumb and didn't get W at level 1, the clear speed is 0K, and having a low cooldown on Q changes stuff so much. Even if Q was her worst ability you'd still have to max it first just because of the cooldown reduction, having 2-3 Qs per fight (had an Elise mid who didn't want the blue buffs and 6% cdr from masteries, bought locket later, had a cd around 6-7s) helps you so much, repositioning, reaching the other side of the fight once your target is down, interrupting (Katarina in the enemy team)... and it's a pretty fun dash skill (Sej's can be kinda frustrating I personnally feel because of its slow traveling speed notably).
W isn't always obvious to see when it procs (even when jungling, the sound effect is pretty quiet), but as long as you do your stuff calmly, you'll have it up for the most part of the fights, which helps regarding AS.
E is really fun with the "pass-through" damage, I picked up several kills during ganks and fights by repositioning and using it on another target (often a minion) to get the AoE damage on the runner.
I built wriggles+bulwark because I was kinda fed (loads of assists) (swifties because mercs aren't worth it against Nautilus + another Vi + Ashe), but even then I felt rather squishy, even at 176 armor and 2300 HP after locket. The fact that they had 2 BCs on their team probably played a role... my damage dropped a lot against anything non-squishy (when doing nashor and dragon I felt that my damage output was pretty nigh) from the lack of damage items, but on the other hand Bulwark is like the trademark of defensive items now, so I'm not sure what to build instead to retain some tankiness while having damage. Randuin's probably a great pick on her, since she has gap-closers but few ways of sticking once Q is on cooldown, and her ult really puts her in the thick of things.
It is known.
+ Show Spoiler +I just finished the first book, I get that now!
Vi time, will probably stream some.
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On December 20 2012 10:16 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 10:14 Ketara wrote:
It's really sad that I was able to figure out what that picture is. i still dont see it is it a Ganymede Rock Lobster?
lol.
Maybe we can start a forum game with this.
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On December 20 2012 10:19 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 10:16 arb wrote:On December 20 2012 10:14 Ketara wrote:
It's really sad that I was able to figure out what that picture is. i still dont see it is it a Ganymede Rock Lobster? lol. Maybe we can start a forum game with this.
Frostblade Irelia ass?
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On December 20 2012 10:30 hasuprotoss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 10:19 Sufficiency wrote:On December 20 2012 10:16 arb wrote:On December 20 2012 10:14 Ketara wrote:
It's really sad that I was able to figure out what that picture is. i still dont see it is it a Ganymede Rock Lobster? lol. Maybe we can start a forum game with this. Frostblade Irelia ass?
Shhhhhh
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On December 20 2012 10:31 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 10:30 hasuprotoss wrote:On December 20 2012 10:19 Sufficiency wrote:On December 20 2012 10:16 arb wrote:On December 20 2012 10:14 Ketara wrote:
It's really sad that I was able to figure out what that picture is. i still dont see it is it a Ganymede Rock Lobster? lol. Maybe we can start a forum game with this. Frostblade Irelia ass? Shhhhhh
Is it sad that I own that skin and didn't recognize it?
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On December 20 2012 10:16 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 10:02 Alaric wrote:
It's known, Ryze's a beast.
Jungled Vi, managed to do it with 0-9-21 masteries and a flask+machete start, even though I had to back after level 4 (road to double buff + wraiths, no gols).
ohmygodohmygodohmygodshe'sSOOOOOOOOOfun
I can jump everywheeeeeeeeeeeeeerre! Went QWEQ R>Q>W>E because I'm dumb and didn't get W at level 1, the clear speed is 0K, and having a low cooldown on Q changes stuff so much. Even if Q was her worst ability you'd still have to max it first just because of the cooldown reduction, having 2-3 Qs per fight (had an Elise mid who didn't want the blue buffs and 6% cdr from masteries, bought locket later, had a cd around 6-7s) helps you so much, repositioning, reaching the other side of the fight once your target is down, interrupting (Katarina in the enemy team)... and it's a pretty fun dash skill (Sej's can be kinda frustrating I personnally feel because of its slow traveling speed notably).
W isn't always obvious to see when it procs (even when jungling, the sound effect is pretty quiet), but as long as you do your stuff calmly, you'll have it up for the most part of the fights, which helps regarding AS.
E is really fun with the "pass-through" damage, I picked up several kills during ganks and fights by repositioning and using it on another target (often a minion) to get the AoE damage on the runner.
I built wriggles+bulwark because I was kinda fed (loads of assists) (swifties because mercs aren't worth it against Nautilus + another Vi + Ashe), but even then I felt rather squishy, even at 176 armor and 2300 HP after locket. The fact that they had 2 BCs on their team probably played a role... my damage dropped a lot against anything non-squishy (when doing nashor and dragon I felt that my damage output was pretty nigh) from the lack of damage items, but on the other hand Bulwark is like the trademark of defensive items now, so I'm not sure what to build instead to retain some tankiness while having damage. Randuin's probably a great pick on her, since she has gap-closers but few ways of sticking once Q is on cooldown, and her ult really puts her in the thick of things. It is known. + Show Spoiler +I just finished the first book, I get that now! Vi time, will probably stream some.
Did I make an involuntary reference ?_?
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So based on my limited ability at doing math, it appears to look something like before you get a Void Staff, AP quints are in general better than Mpen quints, and after you get a void staff it's the other way around.
I'm probably super wrong though and would like somebody who knows how to use a calculator better than me to look into this.
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3 games on Vi, all lost, but I actually think that she okayish both top and jungle. She has some sick engage, the combined range of q and r makes for some fucking out of nowhere catch up it's actually amazing.
Her damage is okay, but she needs farm.
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On December 20 2012 10:05 Seuss wrote:
As an example, a level 18 Malzahar's breakeven point against against a 100 MR target (ignoring his W) is -19 AP. However, a level 9 Malzahar's breakeven point against that same target would be ~147 AP because he hasn't yet had the opportunity to up his base damages.
So the logical conclusion is that AP will be better whenever you're using all of your abilities in the early stages of the game, but MPen will be better for poking with your primary ability and in the later stages.
they are going to have more MR later though
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On December 20 2012 10:40 Ketara wrote:
So based on my limited ability at doing math, it appears to look something like before you get a Void Staff, AP quints are in general better than Mpen quints, and after you get a void staff it's the other way around.
I'm probably super wrong though and would like somebody who knows how to use a calculator better than me to look into this.
Looks fairly correct. Just did quick calcs assuming a 2k combo, with 50 extra damage with AP quints over Mpen, and yeah it does more on a target with 100 base mr&sorcs.
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On December 20 2012 10:40 Ketara wrote:
So based on my limited ability at doing math, it appears to look something like before you get a Void Staff, AP quints are in general better than Mpen quints, and after you get a void staff it's the other way around.
I'm probably super wrong though and would like somebody who knows how to use a calculator better than me to look into this.
That's only true if you're looking at high MR targets. In fact, the conditions by which one or the other is better vary wildly early on. In general, however, MPen tends to be better overall, just less so early compared to late, and less so against high MR targets as opposed to low MR targets.
On December 20 2012 10:48 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 10:05 Seuss wrote:
As an example, a level 18 Malzahar's breakeven point against against a 100 MR target (ignoring his W) is -19 AP. However, a level 9 Malzahar's breakeven point against that same target would be ~147 AP because he hasn't yet had the opportunity to up his base damages.
So the logical conclusion is that AP will be better whenever you're using all of your abilities in the early stages of the game, but MPen will be better for poking with your primary ability and in the later stages. they are going to have more MR later though
You could double their MR at level 18 and the breakeven point is still a reasonable 120 AP. MPen is going to be better unless you're failing hard.
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On December 20 2012 10:16 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 10:02 Alaric wrote:
It's known, Ryze's a beast.
Jungled Vi, managed to do it with 0-9-21 masteries and a flask+machete start, even though I had to back after level 4 (road to double buff + wraiths, no gols).
ohmygodohmygodohmygodshe'sSOOOOOOOOOfun
I can jump everywheeeeeeeeeeeeeerre! Went QWEQ R>Q>W>E because I'm dumb and didn't get W at level 1, the clear speed is 0K, and having a low cooldown on Q changes stuff so much. Even if Q was her worst ability you'd still have to max it first just because of the cooldown reduction, having 2-3 Qs per fight (had an Elise mid who didn't want the blue buffs and 6% cdr from masteries, bought locket later, had a cd around 6-7s) helps you so much, repositioning, reaching the other side of the fight once your target is down, interrupting (Katarina in the enemy team)... and it's a pretty fun dash skill (Sej's can be kinda frustrating I personnally feel because of its slow traveling speed notably).
W isn't always obvious to see when it procs (even when jungling, the sound effect is pretty quiet), but as long as you do your stuff calmly, you'll have it up for the most part of the fights, which helps regarding AS.
E is really fun with the "pass-through" damage, I picked up several kills during ganks and fights by repositioning and using it on another target (often a minion) to get the AoE damage on the runner.
I built wriggles+bulwark because I was kinda fed (loads of assists) (swifties because mercs aren't worth it against Nautilus + another Vi + Ashe), but even then I felt rather squishy, even at 176 armor and 2300 HP after locket. The fact that they had 2 BCs on their team probably played a role... my damage dropped a lot against anything non-squishy (when doing nashor and dragon I felt that my damage output was pretty nigh) from the lack of damage items, but on the other hand Bulwark is like the trademark of defensive items now, so I'm not sure what to build instead to retain some tankiness while having damage. Randuin's probably a great pick on her, since she has gap-closers but few ways of sticking once Q is on cooldown, and her ult really puts her in the thick of things. It is known. + Show Spoiler +I just finished the first book, I get that now! Vi time, will probably stream some.
Watching the series for me.
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On December 20 2012 10:58 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 10:40 Ketara wrote:
So based on my limited ability at doing math, it appears to look something like before you get a Void Staff, AP quints are in general better than Mpen quints, and after you get a void staff it's the other way around.
I'm probably super wrong though and would like somebody who knows how to use a calculator better than me to look into this. That's only true if you're looking at high MR targets. In fact, the conditions by which one or the other is better vary wildly early on. In general, however, MPen tends to be better overall, just less so early compared to late, and less so against high MR targets as opposed to low MR targets. Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 10:48 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 20 2012 10:05 Seuss wrote:
As an example, a level 18 Malzahar's breakeven point against against a 100 MR target (ignoring his W) is -19 AP. However, a level 9 Malzahar's breakeven point against that same target would be ~147 AP because he hasn't yet had the opportunity to up his base damages.
So the logical conclusion is that AP will be better whenever you're using all of your abilities in the early stages of the game, but MPen will be better for poking with your primary ability and in the later stages. they are going to have more MR later though You could double their MR at level 18 and the breakeven point is still a reasonable 120 AP. MPen is going to be better unless you're failing hard.
I don't understand what you mean by breakeven point.
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On December 20 2012 11:04 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 10:58 Seuss wrote:On December 20 2012 10:40 Ketara wrote:
So based on my limited ability at doing math, it appears to look something like before you get a Void Staff, AP quints are in general better than Mpen quints, and after you get a void staff it's the other way around.
I'm probably super wrong though and would like somebody who knows how to use a calculator better than me to look into this. That's only true if you're looking at high MR targets. In fact, the conditions by which one or the other is better vary wildly early on. In general, however, MPen tends to be better overall, just less so early compared to late, and less so against high MR targets as opposed to low MR targets. On December 20 2012 10:48 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 20 2012 10:05 Seuss wrote:
As an example, a level 18 Malzahar's breakeven point against against a 100 MR target (ignoring his W) is -19 AP. However, a level 9 Malzahar's breakeven point against that same target would be ~147 AP because he hasn't yet had the opportunity to up his base damages.
So the logical conclusion is that AP will be better whenever you're using all of your abilities in the early stages of the game, but MPen will be better for poking with your primary ability and in the later stages. they are going to have more MR later though You could double their MR at level 18 and the breakeven point is still a reasonable 120 AP. MPen is going to be better unless you're failing hard. I don't understand what you mean by breakeven point.
When magic penetration and ap add the same amount of damage.
This is dependent on, as well as other things:
The champion, spell base damage, champion level, AP ratios, skill order, what skills hit, current magic pen, and enemy MR.
What seuss is saying seems obvious but wasn't "discovered" until a few months ago right before abyssal was nerfed and someone put up a spreadsheet on reddit of abyssal's damage to deathcap's.
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On December 20 2012 11:04 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 10:58 Seuss wrote:On December 20 2012 10:40 Ketara wrote:
So based on my limited ability at doing math, it appears to look something like before you get a Void Staff, AP quints are in general better than Mpen quints, and after you get a void staff it's the other way around.
I'm probably super wrong though and would like somebody who knows how to use a calculator better than me to look into this. That's only true if you're looking at high MR targets. In fact, the conditions by which one or the other is better vary wildly early on. In general, however, MPen tends to be better overall, just less so early compared to late, and less so against high MR targets as opposed to low MR targets. On December 20 2012 10:48 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 20 2012 10:05 Seuss wrote:
As an example, a level 18 Malzahar's breakeven point against against a 100 MR target (ignoring his W) is -19 AP. However, a level 9 Malzahar's breakeven point against that same target would be ~147 AP because he hasn't yet had the opportunity to up his base damages.
So the logical conclusion is that AP will be better whenever you're using all of your abilities in the early stages of the game, but MPen will be better for poking with your primary ability and in the later stages. they are going to have more MR later though You could double their MR at level 18 and the breakeven point is still a reasonable 120 AP. MPen is going to be better unless you're failing hard. I don't understand what you mean by breakeven point.
What obesechicken13 said. When you have more AP than the breakeven point MPen is better, and when you have less AP is better. So when the breakeven point goes negative that essentially means AP can not be better than MPen.
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On December 20 2012 11:03 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 10:16 Requizen wrote:On December 20 2012 10:02 Alaric wrote:
It's known, Ryze's a beast.
Jungled Vi, managed to do it with 0-9-21 masteries and a flask+machete start, even though I had to back after level 4 (road to double buff + wraiths, no gols).
ohmygodohmygodohmygodshe'sSOOOOOOOOOfun
I can jump everywheeeeeeeeeeeeeerre! Went QWEQ R>Q>W>E because I'm dumb and didn't get W at level 1, the clear speed is 0K, and having a low cooldown on Q changes stuff so much. Even if Q was her worst ability you'd still have to max it first just because of the cooldown reduction, having 2-3 Qs per fight (had an Elise mid who didn't want the blue buffs and 6% cdr from masteries, bought locket later, had a cd around 6-7s) helps you so much, repositioning, reaching the other side of the fight once your target is down, interrupting (Katarina in the enemy team)... and it's a pretty fun dash skill (Sej's can be kinda frustrating I personnally feel because of its slow traveling speed notably).
W isn't always obvious to see when it procs (even when jungling, the sound effect is pretty quiet), but as long as you do your stuff calmly, you'll have it up for the most part of the fights, which helps regarding AS.
E is really fun with the "pass-through" damage, I picked up several kills during ganks and fights by repositioning and using it on another target (often a minion) to get the AoE damage on the runner.
I built wriggles+bulwark because I was kinda fed (loads of assists) (swifties because mercs aren't worth it against Nautilus + another Vi + Ashe), but even then I felt rather squishy, even at 176 armor and 2300 HP after locket. The fact that they had 2 BCs on their team probably played a role... my damage dropped a lot against anything non-squishy (when doing nashor and dragon I felt that my damage output was pretty nigh) from the lack of damage items, but on the other hand Bulwark is like the trademark of defensive items now, so I'm not sure what to build instead to retain some tankiness while having damage. Randuin's probably a great pick on her, since she has gap-closers but few ways of sticking once Q is on cooldown, and her ult really puts her in the thick of things. It is known. + Show Spoiler +I just finished the first book, I get that now! Vi time, will probably stream some. Watching the series for me.
What are you talking about. @_@
On December 20 2012 10:48 WhiteDog wrote:
3 games on Vi, all lost, but I actually think that she okayish both top and jungle. She has some sick engage, the combined range of q and r makes for some fucking out of nowhere catch up it's actually amazing.
Her damage is okay, but she needs farm.
Felt super fragile. I probably shouldn't complete bulwark and just get more armor (but Vi jungle + Riven top + Cait AD made it kinda dumb to rush bulwark... I just wanted to have MR for Lux and skip mercs  ). She definitely needs farm, and CDR feels pretty good on her, so you can Q often to move. I don't think one should try to build mallet on her, that's not her role, her ult and Q get the targets well enough.
Ironically, she felt a bit "slow paced" to me, as in I try to use my ult to catch somebody, then use Q to knock them back into my team. I need to get really tanky for that, and also to ult, then Q and not release it immediatly. During this time people can flash, run the other way and fuck up your knock-back, and stuff like that. Same when you try to get the good angle for your E, with people moving you tend to miss. if you take too long.
Imagine Maokai's WQ combo, except your W is only a gap closer and not a root, so positioning behind them becomes harder.
My clearing power fades a bit toward the mid game, but maybe that's because I don't build enough AD (ie just wriggles). Maybe I could try a bruta, as I don't really like phage (triforce could be ok, short cooldowns to proc sheen, good mobility boosts, a bit of tankiness... but when I mained Jax and Irelia s2 I tend to look at champs and find trifoce underwhelming on them ), and BC is easy to apply with the AoE from her whole kit (well not Q since it stops at the first champ).
9-12-9 with AS marks was faster than 0-9-21 with AD marks. I got blue buffs both games (Mordekaiser this time) so this didn't impact.
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On December 20 2012 11:03 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 10:16 Requizen wrote:On December 20 2012 10:02 Alaric wrote:
It's known, Ryze's a beast.
Jungled Vi, managed to do it with 0-9-21 masteries and a flask+machete start, even though I had to back after level 4 (road to double buff + wraiths, no gols).
ohmygodohmygodohmygodshe'sSOOOOOOOOOfun
I can jump everywheeeeeeeeeeeeeerre! Went QWEQ R>Q>W>E because I'm dumb and didn't get W at level 1, the clear speed is 0K, and having a low cooldown on Q changes stuff so much. Even if Q was her worst ability you'd still have to max it first just because of the cooldown reduction, having 2-3 Qs per fight (had an Elise mid who didn't want the blue buffs and 6% cdr from masteries, bought locket later, had a cd around 6-7s) helps you so much, repositioning, reaching the other side of the fight once your target is down, interrupting (Katarina in the enemy team)... and it's a pretty fun dash skill (Sej's can be kinda frustrating I personnally feel because of its slow traveling speed notably).
W isn't always obvious to see when it procs (even when jungling, the sound effect is pretty quiet), but as long as you do your stuff calmly, you'll have it up for the most part of the fights, which helps regarding AS.
E is really fun with the "pass-through" damage, I picked up several kills during ganks and fights by repositioning and using it on another target (often a minion) to get the AoE damage on the runner.
I built wriggles+bulwark because I was kinda fed (loads of assists) (swifties because mercs aren't worth it against Nautilus + another Vi + Ashe), but even then I felt rather squishy, even at 176 armor and 2300 HP after locket. The fact that they had 2 BCs on their team probably played a role... my damage dropped a lot against anything non-squishy (when doing nashor and dragon I felt that my damage output was pretty nigh) from the lack of damage items, but on the other hand Bulwark is like the trademark of defensive items now, so I'm not sure what to build instead to retain some tankiness while having damage. Randuin's probably a great pick on her, since she has gap-closers but few ways of sticking once Q is on cooldown, and her ult really puts her in the thick of things. It is known. + Show Spoiler +I just finished the first book, I get that now! Vi time, will probably stream some. Watching the series for me.
it is known
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My friend just gifted me Trundle. Not even a skin for Trundle, straight up the champion.
And then he gifted our other friend Viktor. Not a skin, the champion.
That's what I call a dedicated troll.
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On December 20 2012 10:11 Sufficiency wrote:Even so, we all know everyone likes this: + Show Spoiler +
This kind of behaviour is unacceptable and despicable, sir. I'm not coming back here again >:[ .
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/a2P3Z.png)
