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On January 16 2013 06:07 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 06:03 Roffles wrote:On January 16 2013 05:58 zulu_nation8 wrote:On January 16 2013 05:50 Roffles wrote:On January 16 2013 05:38 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Sorry for being polemical but I miss the days of BW when theorycrafters were actually looked down upon. What you're proposing is essentially theorycrafting too. I hate to say it, but until you show me that your high level ranked 5s players can legitimately cast and analyze games at a high level live, then I'm not gonna buy your argument. Not all great players are informative and can do the job that these casters are doing. TSM would be awful casters. They're all great players, but would you have any of them in a casting booth commentating the game? There's more than just flat out pro level analysis. BW casters are all the fat old men who are washed up from early 2000s. I don't see you complaining about them. Where are the professional SC2 casters? Day9 probably blows at the game by now, yet he's one of the best and most informative casters in SC2. I don't see why you need pro players to cast. Fuck, I wouldn't want those 16-17 year old immature solo queue kids casting a game anyways. We all can critically analyze and lambast poor commentary through Skype chats and whatnot, but the fact is that when you're not doing your own commentary live, then your opinion means shit too. im merely proposing that high ranked 5s players would provide better ANALYSIS of pro games, which I agree, doesn't always translate to better commentary. I'm essentially only proposing that better players understand the game more. I completely agree that there's a whole skillset to commentating like translating observations into works quickly, transitioning, exuding energy, etc. Aight, then that's without a doubt. I must have misunderstood your argument through the pages cause I quickly got bored of reading all this fluff. The better player you are, clearly the more you understand about the game. Even a gorilla like Reginald could tell you why he got a kill, and then immediately coat it with a bunch of obscenities and TSM chants. But you'd still understand why he did what he did. Put them into post game analysis instead of people like MonteCristo or RedBaron. Of course I agree. I agree with that as well. Post game analysis being the key point. What Bly also believes (which I find a particularly hard pill to swallow) is that unless you are or have been a pro player, you will never be able to provide even close to the same level of analysis as a pro player. (Note that I don't expect non-pro analysis to be able to be just as good as pro, but Bly believes that even with practice, the two will be on vastly different levels without hope of improvement.)
by "pro" I essentially mean someone who has a lot of high level 5s experience. If you don't play the game you won't understand it.
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On January 16 2013 06:05 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 06:04 thenexusp wrote:Screw all the talk about casters and AD reds, what is thresh's hidden passive?? Thanks so much for all of the bug reports. They have been instrumental in getting Thresh closer to release state. This is the final push, so everyone please report any bugs you find over the coming days.Below are a list of bugs that should be fixed with this deploy:
Q Passive visual buff scales more smoothly;
No game lag on lantern initial cast of the game;
Thresh health bar is closer to his body;
Thresh ult goes on cooldown he dies while casting it;
Skarner and Blitzcrank can no longer press the lantern while hooking;
Thresh now has a different temp icon for Q2 (but not the final icon!);
Thresh can no longer cancel the animation for Q by casting it during an autoattack (not sure this one made it in);
Jax/Lee Sin/Katarina can now Shunpo to Thresh's lantern;
Thresh can now gain up to 999999 souls;
Thresh souls now have team coloration;
Thresh souls now move a bit on spawn to be easier to see;
Thresh now has a hidden passive;
Thresh's death animation now plays more smoothly;
We couldn't have identified and solved a lot of these without your help. EDIT: nvm, it's on the wiki lol Something to do with the other Shadow Isles champions. My bet's on his interactions with yorick.
nah, according to lol wiki he just says "hook, line, and sinker" when he hooks an enemy nautilus
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Whatever, Neo baited me with a Wukong on stream, I gladly took it. :3
I'm a bit saddened that they used him mid, though. It's true that mages fundamentally make better match-ups for Wukong (bursty, sustain-less, his passive favors itemization of health against burst) but seeing all those abilities-oriented champs sent down there could make people pidgeon-hole them, as if they all were Talon(s).
But I liked that GG got the bit about BC right: with a single AD item MF does more damage than Wukong with her ult (assuming full BT, even at level 3 ult MF does 80 more damage), and she has the superior scaling of a ranged auto-attacking carry, so they had Wukong rush a BC while MF went BT first, so that Wukong could stack it on the opposing it with his ult then MF uses hers for maximized damage.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On January 16 2013 06:06 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 05:52 Scip wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^ While I definitely qualify as one of those kids, I can and will cast a lot of games in like 2-3 weeks just to try prove you wrong Roffles, because I kinda agree with bly08 on some of his points. You gosu analysis. You chobo caster. Things just like slow down when you cast and it takes you like an hour in game to explain like one move because you go into such detail that you miss the next kill. It's like listening to a guy just ramble on and on about one thing. Plus you talk slow.
Imma make your jaw drop to the other side of the planet son, you have no idea how fast I am going to improve just yet :p
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United States47024 Posts
On January 16 2013 05:38 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Sorry for being polemical but I miss the days of BW when theorycrafters were actually looked down upon.
Theorycraft was looked down upon in BW insofar as Korean BW actually tried things that were worth trying. Theorycraft's value only lies in providing things to be tried empirically, which means it holds very little value in a culture that more or less tried everything, and the only theorycraft left was for things that were empirically bad.
It's not the same in League because of the comparatively slow rate at which people actually try new shit, though this is going to be less and less true as Korea and China move forward and are much less stagnant/more open-minded in how they play/think about the game.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On January 16 2013 06:10 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 06:06 Roffles wrote:On January 16 2013 05:52 Scip wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^ While I definitely qualify as one of those kids, I can and will cast a lot of games in like 2-3 weeks just to try prove you wrong Roffles, because I kinda agree with bly08 on some of his points. You gosu analysis. You chobo caster. Things just like slow down when you cast and it takes you like an hour in game to explain like one move because you go into such detail that you miss the next kill. It's like listening to a guy just ramble on and on about one thing. Plus you talk slow. Imma make your jaw drop to the other side of the planet son, you have no idea how fast I am going to improve just yet :p
9000 eSports dollars says you still chobo in 2 weeks.
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On January 16 2013 06:10 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 06:05 Zooper31 wrote:On January 16 2013 06:04 thenexusp wrote:Screw all the talk about casters and AD reds, what is thresh's hidden passive?? Thanks so much for all of the bug reports. They have been instrumental in getting Thresh closer to release state. This is the final push, so everyone please report any bugs you find over the coming days.Below are a list of bugs that should be fixed with this deploy:
Q Passive visual buff scales more smoothly;
No game lag on lantern initial cast of the game;
Thresh health bar is closer to his body;
Thresh ult goes on cooldown he dies while casting it;
Skarner and Blitzcrank can no longer press the lantern while hooking;
Thresh now has a different temp icon for Q2 (but not the final icon!);
Thresh can no longer cancel the animation for Q by casting it during an autoattack (not sure this one made it in);
Jax/Lee Sin/Katarina can now Shunpo to Thresh's lantern;
Thresh can now gain up to 999999 souls;
Thresh souls now have team coloration;
Thresh souls now move a bit on spawn to be easier to see;
Thresh now has a hidden passive;
Thresh's death animation now plays more smoothly;
We couldn't have identified and solved a lot of these without your help. EDIT: nvm, it's on the wiki lol Something to do with the other Shadow Isles champions. My bet's on his interactions with yorick. nah, according to lol wiki he just says "hook, line, and sinker" when he hooks an enemy nautilus
Aww ok I suppose.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On January 16 2013 06:12 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 06:10 Scip wrote:On January 16 2013 06:06 Roffles wrote:On January 16 2013 05:52 Scip wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^ While I definitely qualify as one of those kids, I can and will cast a lot of games in like 2-3 weeks just to try prove you wrong Roffles, because I kinda agree with bly08 on some of his points. You gosu analysis. You chobo caster. Things just like slow down when you cast and it takes you like an hour in game to explain like one move because you go into such detail that you miss the next kill. It's like listening to a guy just ramble on and on about one thing. Plus you talk slow. Imma make your jaw drop to the other side of the planet son, you have no idea how fast I am going to improve just yet :p 9000 eSports dollars says you still chobo in 2 weeks.
I got my english accent in like 2 weeks too, so I'll learn to watch the minimap+talk faster. I do it ezpz np
btw. I am going to start practicing in 2 weeks, because I have some school stuff now, so like, I'll not be chobo 1 month from now.
vvvv it's ok dood, I got dis
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On January 16 2013 06:10 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 06:06 Roffles wrote:On January 16 2013 05:52 Scip wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^ While I definitely qualify as one of those kids, I can and will cast a lot of games in like 2-3 weeks just to try prove you wrong Roffles, because I kinda agree with bly08 on some of his points. You gosu analysis. You chobo caster. Things just like slow down when you cast and it takes you like an hour in game to explain like one move because you go into such detail that you miss the next kill. It's like listening to a guy just ramble on and on about one thing. Plus you talk slow. Imma make your jaw drop to the other side of the planet son, you have no idea how fast I am going to improve just yet :p
Not to be harsh, but I'm pretty interested in this since despite how blunt he may be, Roffles was pretty much accurate in his statement. Maybe I could have quoted you (instead of doing some "what if Yango/MoonBear tried casting and actually sucked at the "cast" aspect of it?"), but I probably didn't even think of it because when we listen to you we don't expect some pro/tournament level casting but rather an above average casual cast (at least I do).
Curious to see how it'll turn out if you're aware of it and intend to make yourself more "professionnal". 
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On January 16 2013 05:59 Chrispy wrote:
For some reason this is the most annoying argument I've ever read.
Can't we just go back to whether or not I should take AD reds or Armour pen and which one's better for early game?
How bout the reasons you should include 1 crit chance red in your runes on an AD carry so that you can crit from minute 0?
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United States23745 Posts
On January 16 2013 06:21 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 05:59 Chrispy wrote:
For some reason this is the most annoying argument I've ever read.
Can't we just go back to whether or not I should take AD reds or Armour pen and which one's better for early game? How bout the reasons you should include 1 crit chance red in your runes on an AD carry so that you can crit from minute 0?
Gotta unlock the mechanic.
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You think that 1 crit chance red's gonna win you the lane, but really all it's going to do is screw up your last hitting of caster minions under tower.
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On January 16 2013 05:54 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 05:50 Seuss wrote:On January 16 2013 05:38 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Sorry for being polemical but I miss the days of BW when theorycrafters were actually looked down upon. And baseball was better before sabermetrics were introduced. please explain your analogy because i see no connection
The slam on theorycrafters seemed like a random nostalgic look back to the days before all this math and theory polluted everything. I thought that was silly, so I brought up another case where math/analysis became a big part of a competitive, team-oriented game.
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On January 16 2013 06:10 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 06:05 Zooper31 wrote:On January 16 2013 06:04 thenexusp wrote:Screw all the talk about casters and AD reds, what is thresh's hidden passive?? Thanks so much for all of the bug reports. They have been instrumental in getting Thresh closer to release state. This is the final push, so everyone please report any bugs you find over the coming days.Below are a list of bugs that should be fixed with this deploy:
Q Passive visual buff scales more smoothly;
No game lag on lantern initial cast of the game;
Thresh health bar is closer to his body;
Thresh ult goes on cooldown he dies while casting it;
Skarner and Blitzcrank can no longer press the lantern while hooking;
Thresh now has a different temp icon for Q2 (but not the final icon!);
Thresh can no longer cancel the animation for Q by casting it during an autoattack (not sure this one made it in);
Jax/Lee Sin/Katarina can now Shunpo to Thresh's lantern;
Thresh can now gain up to 999999 souls;
Thresh souls now have team coloration;
Thresh souls now move a bit on spawn to be easier to see;
Thresh now has a hidden passive;
Thresh's death animation now plays more smoothly;
We couldn't have identified and solved a lot of these without your help. EDIT: nvm, it's on the wiki lol Something to do with the other Shadow Isles champions. My bet's on his interactions with yorick. nah, according to lol wiki he just says "hook, line, and sinker" when he hooks an enemy nautilus
That's it? Man, champions need more interactive lines. (Also, he should also say that when hooking nami and fizz.)
I hope they put in some interactive lines for Thresh with other Shadow Isles champions. (Brainstorm: "So Mordekaiser, mind if I take that off your hands?" when morde gets a ghost.)
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On January 16 2013 06:21 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 05:59 Chrispy wrote:
For some reason this is the most annoying argument I've ever read.
Can't we just go back to whether or not I should take AD reds or Armour pen and which one's better for early game? How bout the reasons you should include 1 crit chance red in your runes on an AD carry so that you can crit from minute 0?
Fun fact: I still do this for the lulz
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On January 16 2013 06:26 thenexusp wrote:
You think that 1 crit chance red's gonna win you the lane, but really all it's going to do is screw up your last hitting of caster minions under tower.
Well you could just get a crit chance blue instead. At %'s that low you're really only expecting to randomly crit once every few games. But it's the psychological factor. If you get randomly crit, it makes people unreluctant to trade because if you get unlucky you'll lose unless it was a grossly imbalanced trade.
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Need more pun-based champions.
Vlad still have the best lines of any champ.
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"It's only a short way"... is that a SHORT joke!?
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On January 16 2013 06:39 cLutZ wrote:
Need more pun-based champions.
Vlad still have the best lines of any champ.
Ugh no. I still refuse to play vlad because of that. It just gets old too quickly. Maybe if I had the legendary skin, I'd play him.
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Is tear good on Ziggs? Or is chalice/athene better.
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EPT
