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On January 15 2013 01:16 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 00:16 AsnSensation wrote:On January 14 2013 23:44 thenexusp wrote:
Penetration is better at low resistance levels (unless you "overpen" past zero but it's rarely actually a problem if you're doing true damage). If your target has 15MR (after reductions and %pen) then 15 mpen will increase your magic damage against that target by 15%. If your target has 100MR then 15mpen will increase your magic damage against that target by 8.5%.
to follow that up a question: Should I run Armor Pen or AD Marks+Quints on Olaf? I know NintendudeX and Oddone used full ArPen setup in the jungle but Q also scales with bonus ad so I don't know which one does actually more dmg. For top AD helps to lasthit under tower if you are forced to do so. Which is better is going to depend upon the scenario under consideration. Because there isn't one setup that's clearly better it's common to run AD Quints and Armor Penetration Marks. It's the best of both worlds, helping last-hitting while taking advantage of each stat where it's most efficient. Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 00:42 BlueSpace wrote:On January 14 2013 21:31 Doctorbeat wrote:On January 14 2013 21:28 Bwaaaa wrote:On January 14 2013 21:11 BlueSpace wrote:On January 14 2013 21:05 Bwaaaa wrote:On January 14 2013 20:32 GregMandel wrote:On January 14 2013 18:30 Filter wrote:
This is going to sound insane, but I really think Zed is a legitimate bot laner in place of a more traditional ADC. Before you rip it, go ahead and try it out. Zed+CC based support like Blitz, Taric, Leona works really well and I've put in about 20 games with a buddy doing it winning around 80% of them. I wonder how much is the shock of Zed being played in that lane, and how much is actually his kit making it work though.
The basic idea is that Zed can use his Q to get early farm/poke harass from outside an adc's range (even caits). His base movement speed means he doesn't need to get boots at all really in the lane phase (Adc's need Tier 2 boots to really be faster than him). He's then able to use his shadow/shadow slash to harass extremely well from range. He's great in condensed fights with huge sustained AoE damage when things get up close. With somebody like Blitz or Leona his level 6 is a 100% kill if the support can land skills, even with no items he's perfectly capable of hammering a 100% to 0 death at level 6 with a bit of help. He's also an extremely good farmer, capable of taking entire creep waves in a single spell. He can even range clear them if need be.
Zed's 6 item build is also extremely cheap (favoring tabs, double bt, lw, warmog, ga, all "big" items are only 2600 gold). His impact in teamfights is crazy, he has the ability to not only burst the other teams adcs right away but if you position yourself and your shadows right you can do a ton of AoE to the rest of the team too. With his 450-500ad and 30% lifesteal his auto's also hurt when people are close to him.
Give it a shot with a buddy and tell me how you think it feels, but in the games I played it felt really good. Above and beyond just cheesing the lane with a bruiser he feels like he transitions to teamfights extremely well, something your average assassin/burst caster can't do as well as an adc. I don't see Zed being an ADC, his kit will make so that he gets insta-killed if he ults in, and the goal of an ADC is to make sustained damage rather than trade a kill for a kill You are not supposed to play him that way, and I don't know but maybe in higher ELO than yours ( and mine too, I'm bad ) it just isn't possible against any decent players, because you just get owned as a melee ad carry with really weak HP and resists ( Just my humble opinion tho ) ( And I think its not that much that he's a bad ADC, it's more the fact that you force your to play without a real one like Ez, Cait or graves ) I don't think he is arguing that zed can be a substitute to an ad carry but that he jut makes a really good kill lane bot. You can always end an ad solotop or mid and still have the role. On a semi related note is corki still a viable top lane this season? I played him a lot S2 but haven't had the oppourtunity lately. Edit: my keyboard is dying and not picking up c's and s's very well. I think the more interesting question is why the meta is so stuck to the ad+support model. There are solo lanes in which an ad carry would do very well without a support. So why stick him into the duo lane? Run a kill lane against the enemy ad and put your own ad into a solo lane, when the opportunity arises. Maybe it's really bad, but I find it hard to believe that there aren't at least some compositions which would favor that. It is not that ads cannot go with out a support it is that they can share exp while still functioning at 90% capacity. Mages and bruiser need levels much more than ads so they get the solo lanes while the ad get the support because they don;t care about the lost exp in exchange for much easier farming and free wards. Adding on to that, ADs build squishy and can thus be easily dived under their turret by a solo lane bruiser and a jungler. They are the most valuable character, why would you not choose to support them? It's not that I don't want to support them. I'm just saying that in specific matchups they might do well without support. So if I can have my adc do well and then create a kill lane that makes life for the opponent adc living hell, than I can put my ad ahead of the enemy ad. To certain extent this will happen at the expense of whoever I stuck into double lane but if my adc does well in his lane I also punish the solo lane of the opponent that he is in. There are a lot of "ifs" and it is a very specific scenario but this is exactly what I mean. Teams could try to develop an edge by using these kind of niche strategies. It gives them an additional dimension during drafting. Regarding adc being squishy, aren't mages also squishy? They also do fine mid without dying all the time. It's not just the lack of defenses, but also the lack of offense. In most cases it's a lot safer to gank/dive a solitary AD than an AP because the former has significantly less burst/CC early on compared to the latter. Moreover, even if an AP champion is shut down and has trouble farming, their base damage combined with their utility will typically prevent them from becoming useless. If an AD carry is shut down they're usually dead weight. This is not to say your idea lacks merit, it's just an explanation of the current situation. Understanding the hows and whys of the current meta will help you flesh out your idea.
There are several ads which can be run successful mid against certain APs. That is more or less known in my opinion. I don't think that is the main issue with my idea. You're of course right some adc will just be bad if faced with a competent jungler. Asche for example won't work mid, because she has almost no escape mechanism apart from an AOE slow. Ez and Corki on the other hand both have a good burst and they are able to jump away.
The real problem for me is the fact that you need an adc which can play solo and you need a support+X that can run a successful kill lane. The idea falls apart if your bot lane isn't able to win, because as you correctly pointed out the adc in mid is more exposed to the jungler. So unless you manage to put enough pressure on bot, you might end up with the enemy jungler camping mid and preventing your ad from farming.
At the same time it is a niche strategy so your teams needs to be able to also play standard, so I do understand why people don't run it. Training for it might actually weaken your standard comp and you can't win tournaments on a niche strategy.
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On January 15 2013 01:40 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 01:27 sylverfyre wrote:On January 15 2013 01:06 thenexusp wrote:
I think generally, arpen runes is always going to do more damage against champions than AD runes, at the cost of last-hitting ability. Of course, last-hitting ability isn't really that important in the jungle. In addition, unlike lane creeps, the jungle monsters all start with a small amount natural armor (buff camps have 20) meaning arpen will actually increase your damage against them by quite a lot.
If all you want to do is clear jungle monsters though, AS runes are still the best because machete 10 true damage. There's a lot of math for this, and it isn't really true. On abilities that deal physical damage it is (because you're multiplying a bigger number than your base AD) but on autoattacks it isn't true unless you build some AD and they don't build armor - at least until LW. Trying to find the S3 graphs for it... remember, ArPen got worse (but it's better post-LW / cleaver with the % changes.) hmm, I probably should have clarified I was talking about "a general situation olaf will get into" and not "a general champion" (and maybe actually quoted the guy I was responding to) I also forgot about olaf's free AS from his passive so maybe my second statement isn't quite correct either. hmmmmm.... I'm also wondering about that hybrid Arpen marks and AD quints build -- is that any good?
Probably, although I personally would rather run arpen/MS. Let's you bully people in lane insanely hard because they can't run from you, and in teamfights it's so much stronger if you don't have ghost up. Also works for jungle quite well.
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game is free they said....
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United States15536 Posts
On January 15 2013 02:02 TheKefka wrote:
game is free they said....
Not even a little bit. It's a lie. A big lie.
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On January 15 2013 02:02 TheKefka wrote:
game is free they said....
I think I spent more on this game than on any other game I've played except WoW. Not even joking.
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I don't wanna imagine how much money they actually make when they even manged to pull money from a cheapskate like myself.
oh well least I got the skin I wanted on sale TT
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On January 15 2013 02:09 Amui wrote:I think I spent more on this game than on any other game I've played except WoW. Not even joking.
In 2 years of playing, I had only bought one skin and a rune page.
That was until they added the gift option, where people bought me skins and I felt obligated to return the favour.
Riot must have made a small fortune from the gifting feature.
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On January 15 2013 01:40 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 01:27 sylverfyre wrote:On January 15 2013 01:06 thenexusp wrote:
I think generally, arpen runes is always going to do more damage against champions than AD runes, at the cost of last-hitting ability. Of course, last-hitting ability isn't really that important in the jungle. In addition, unlike lane creeps, the jungle monsters all start with a small amount natural armor (buff camps have 20) meaning arpen will actually increase your damage against them by quite a lot.
If all you want to do is clear jungle monsters though, AS runes are still the best because machete 10 true damage. There's a lot of math for this, and it isn't really true. On abilities that deal physical damage it is (because you're multiplying a bigger number than your base AD) but on autoattacks it isn't true unless you build some AD and they don't build armor - at least until LW. Trying to find the S3 graphs for it... remember, ArPen got worse (but it's better post-LW / cleaver with the % changes.) hmm, I probably should have clarified I was talking about "a general situation olaf will get into" and not "a general champion" (and maybe actually quoted the guy I was responding to) I also forgot about olaf's free AS from his passive so maybe my second statement isn't quite correct either. hmmmmm.... I'm also wondering about that hybrid Arpen marks and AD quints build -- is that any good?
Hm. On Olaf, the axe throws and W-AD-steroid both favor armor pen over AD runes pretty heavily, so ArPen is probably better on him. Reckless Swing obviously doesn't care one way or the other, and you get flat armor pen from your ulti, which works beautifully with either rune setup. (unless you're reducing their armor below zero - in which case they should just fucking die, right?)
If you're jungling olaf, I'm not sure whether full AS runes or "enough ArPen to bring jungle creeps to 0" provides the faster clear, but my gut feeling says the latter is better to run for overall jungler performance, especially with how reliant olaf ganks are on the axethrow damage. (His ganks often are throw axe -> pick up axe -> throw axe -> finally in melee range unless they flashed, in which case throw a third axe.)
On January 15 2013 02:02 TheKefka wrote:
game is free they said....
It's so free.
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Dat super skin sale, normally I very rarely buy skins or anything, but what with the huge legacy sale, the snowdown skins and the super skin sale I now have a skin for most the champs I regularly play, and half the champs I play in ARAMs.
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United States15065 Posts
I've noticed that Malzahar is really scary early game now when he can just buy a ton of potions, spam spells and push the wave like crazy. He can clear real fast if he has infinite mana.
Anybody else notice this? He seems a lot stronger S3.
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Malzahar was always strong in terms of damage, but his kit is quite non-favorable because he only has 1 hard CC and he has to stand still while using it.
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I told myself I wouldnt spend any more money on this game three months ago.
Spent 200$ since then -_-;
Reminds me of a comic strip I read about league
Guy one: League of legends is so fun! And its free!
Guy two: It's so fun! I dont have to spend a penny to play!
Scene two:
Guy two: so how much money have you spent on this game
Guy one: o___o over 8,000 dollars.
Not word for word, but something like that.
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It's ok I only spent 20€,now I just need to resist the urge to buy nunu bot and wait for the next sale.
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Yea Riot does what they do really well. They give you a list of free champions on the way to 30. You feel pretty good about being able to get a new champion once a week. Then you hit 30, all of the cheap champs are gone. Now you realize it takes a couple weeks of playing to get a champion. Then you want to make the best of your champion and realize a rune page and the good runes cost over 23k ip. You sit silently for a moment, almost depressed. You venture into researching RP. Four dollars for a champion isn't so bad, then you get left with an awkward amount so you buy more. You love your favorite champion and want it to be special, you spend another four dollars on a skin. This repeats until you you feel satisfied.
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United States15536 Posts
On January 15 2013 02:33 smOOthMayDie wrote:
I told myself I wouldnt spend any more money on this game three months ago.
Spent 200$ since then -_-;
Reminds me of a comic strip I read about league
Guy one: League of legends is so fun! And its free!
Guy two: It's so fun! I dont have to spend a penny to play!
Scene two:
Guy two: so how much money have you spent on this game
Guy one: o___o over 8,000 dollars.
Not word for word, but something like that.
You're referring to the Penny Arcade comic, which I'm surprised hasn't been posted yet, tbh.
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On January 15 2013 02:37 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 02:33 smOOthMayDie wrote:
I told myself I wouldnt spend any more money on this game three months ago.
Spent 200$ since then -_-;
Reminds me of a comic strip I read about league
Guy one: League of legends is so fun! And its free!
Guy two: It's so fun! I dont have to spend a penny to play!
Scene two:
Guy two: so how much money have you spent on this game
Guy one: o___o over 8,000 dollars.
Not word for word, but something like that. You're referring to the Penny Arcade comic, which I'm surprised hasn't been posted yet, tbh.
That's the one!
+ Show Spoiler +
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United States15065 Posts
I've spent 60$ on LoL, and spent it almost all on rune pages.
Now that I'm sitting on 18 pages, I don't see much use in spending more money on the game. I'm not into skins, though.
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On January 15 2013 02:25 Ketara wrote:
I've noticed that Malzahar is really scary early game now when he can just buy a ton of potions, spam spells and push the wave like crazy. He can clear real fast if he has infinite mana.
Anybody else notice this? He seems a lot stronger S3.
Not really, I've tried to play malz so goddamn many times and his kit is just garbage. I'f you're going for pushing power just play Ziggs or even Syndra. Malzes pushing power is also not even that exceptional until a few items/levels, both of them will easily put him under tower.
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They'll go oom doing so unless they have blue, while Malz has good mana-sustain. He doesn't roam as well though. But he hits stuff far more easily than Syndra in teamfights, his W melts those greedy warmogs rushers, and has pretty good 1v1 as he can stall for his team or ensure a full combo depending on his team.
Now, AD Malz mid... I wonder.
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0$ lifetime, bitchez
If they say it's free, it better BE free.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/i-CV2d9W4/0/950x10000/i-CV2d9W4-950x10000.jpg)
