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On January 07 2013 05:58 MoonBear wrote:
Was WX's analysis about his personal thoughts alone or also about solo queue? I wonder if his views are also influenced from team play where he knows there will be peel/support/etc and his main focus is killing things. I also wonder how much builds and playstyles change shifting from team play to solo queue play.
I think he might be undervaluing PD. Iirc it's still the biggest crit stick and one of the few MS items for an AD (?) even if it was nerfed a lot. Also curious what his standard build for other AD Carries is.
He states that he has tried several items in ranked. He does not mention anything about competitive team play, so take from that what you will.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 07 2013 06:03 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 05:54 TheYango wrote:
The fact that IBG doesn't provide any attack speed is a point that I did forget about in yesterday's discussion.
Even if you've got that cute AoE slow, it's still very clumsy to kite with base attack speed. Solution, just build Statikk Shiv and go for maximum Ez Q proc cheese.
See, then at the point where you've got IBC+Shiv, you've spent 6k gold and still have absolutely no AD from items and so you do no damage.
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On January 07 2013 05:54 TheYango wrote:
The fact that IBG doesn't provide any attack speed is a point that I did forget about in yesterday's discussion.
Even if you've got that cute AoE slow, it's still very clumsy to kite with base attack speed.
Personally I'm not a huge fan of IBG either, but you are also forgetting that EZ's passive gives him AS.
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On January 07 2013 06:03 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 05:54 TheYango wrote:
The fact that IBG doesn't provide any attack speed is a point that I did forget about in yesterday's discussion.
Even if you've got that cute AoE slow, it's still very clumsy to kite with base attack speed. Solution, just build Statikk Shiv and go for maximum Ez Q proc cheese. Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 05:56 Numy wrote:On January 07 2013 05:48 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 07 2013 05:44 nafta wrote:On January 07 2013 05:42 Yagami wrote:I asked Fnatic.Rekless on stream what does he thinks about trinity force on Ezreal and he said that it was too expensive and you should invest that money on IE/PD for better stats. Now Weixiao says you should get TF on Ezreal.... I'm confused , help me please  Trinity force is stronger for early/mid and ie/pd for late.That's about it lol.Also I'd listen to weixiao about ad if he says something over anyone else :D. Unless you play at the same level as Weixiao you have to take it with a grain of salt. As it was stated, he's good enough he can kite without needing IBG, but someone's whose mechanics aren't at the same level can abuse the ranged AOE slow that IBG provides (at 1100 range with Q) to make up for their lack of raw skill. Or they could just work on their raw skill. I guess it depends what your intentions are when you play the game. Do you just want to play for fun or improvement? If for fun why are you worrying what's the very best when you can just work with what is almost best but more fun for you? Why not both lol? I can build IBG and play and improve my mechanics and have fun and maybe someday realize I'm good enough I don't need it. The point I was trying to make is most people aren't, and never will be, as good as Weixiao so there are builds that he would never consider building that might still work for someone of a lesser skill level.
I could care less what weixiao or any pro thinks. I don't like IBG but if I did I wouldn't change my opinion of it because of him.
Also my mandarin is terrible. So bad that I need translations. I like how he calls corki airplane :D same way Chinese call Starcraft 1 scourge suicide bombers.
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On January 07 2013 05:36 BlackMagister wrote:
Elementz went weird items for Lulu. I don't play her, but I don't see how mobility boots and chalice would be helpful. She doesn't have a hard engage to make use of the speed and doesn't spam heals so the mana from chalice would only help in lane.
It seems weird that Elise can just build tanky items and mpen, but she doesn't seem to be as bad as old Cassio.
Her kit bursting at the seems with utility screams "cdr+chalice" to me, but I haven't bought her yet (def. one of my next buys, I just have too many champs to improve right now to pick up an entirely new one), is Lulu's teamfighting that conservative with cooldowns?
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Is there like a Chinese league wiki or something?
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United States23745 Posts
On January 07 2013 06:05 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 06:03 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 07 2013 05:54 TheYango wrote:
The fact that IBG doesn't provide any attack speed is a point that I did forget about in yesterday's discussion.
Even if you've got that cute AoE slow, it's still very clumsy to kite with base attack speed. Solution, just build Statikk Shiv and go for maximum Ez Q proc cheese. See, then at the point where you've got IBC+Shiv, you've spent 6k gold and still have absolutely no AD from items and so you do no damage.
I was just kidding anyway lol.
Basically the entire argument boils down to whether or not you value Utility>Damage, but since the main role of the ADC is to do damage building utility seems counter intuitive to a lot of people. The other issue is you're paying about the some amount of gold for the utility when you could easily just buy the damage instead. This isn't like the Malady on Kog argument for Yellowpete because Malady is cheap, with IBC you're already to the point where you can almost afford IE anyway. IBG makes sense on Ez because applying the slow with Q is super useful, but when it takes away from the primary role of the ADC to do damage in kind of falls apart. Now on Ez Top that's a whole other discussion.
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On January 07 2013 06:05 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 06:03 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 07 2013 05:54 TheYango wrote:
The fact that IBG doesn't provide any attack speed is a point that I did forget about in yesterday's discussion.
Even if you've got that cute AoE slow, it's still very clumsy to kite with base attack speed. Solution, just build Statikk Shiv and go for maximum Ez Q proc cheese. See, then at the point where you've got IBC+Shiv, you've spent 6k gold and still have absolutely no AD from items and so you do no damage.
Usually what I see is BT->IBG->LW->IE, rarely do I see IBG and Shiv together.
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On January 07 2013 03:17 Nos- wrote:
As a side note, you might be wondering why I have no armor penetration runes. One of the primary reasons is that the top priority for an ADC in lane is to cs, which is why I have so many ad runes to help with that. A more subtle reason is that I don’t think armor penetration runes are worth it in comparison with its ad counterpart. This is largely due to the new way penetration is calculated.
I'm really curious regarding his "subtle reason". I certainly agree with his primary reason, but it seems extremely odd that he'd argue penetration runes are worse after the change.
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United States37500 Posts
On January 07 2013 06:05 jaybrundage wrote:
Is Neo Here?
?
You can PM me you know. :O
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On January 07 2013 06:39 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 03:17 Nos- wrote:
As a side note, you might be wondering why I have no armor penetration runes. One of the primary reasons is that the top priority for an ADC in lane is to cs, which is why I have so many ad runes to help with that. A more subtle reason is that I don’t think armor penetration runes are worth it in comparison with its ad counterpart. This is largely due to the new way penetration is calculated. I'm really curious regarding his "subtle reason". I certainly agree with his primary reason, but it seems extremely odd that he'd argue penetration runes are worse after the change.
they are, their value got lowered you know.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 07 2013 06:25 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 06:05 TheYango wrote:On January 07 2013 06:03 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 07 2013 05:54 TheYango wrote:
The fact that IBG doesn't provide any attack speed is a point that I did forget about in yesterday's discussion.
Even if you've got that cute AoE slow, it's still very clumsy to kite with base attack speed. Solution, just build Statikk Shiv and go for maximum Ez Q proc cheese. See, then at the point where you've got IBC+Shiv, you've spent 6k gold and still have absolutely no AD from items and so you do no damage. Usually what I see is BT->IBG->LW->IE, rarely do I see IBG and Shiv together.
And this exactly has the problem which I stated earlier--when you have 0 attack speed, you don't necessarily end up kiting better, because kiting with 0 bonus attack speed (other than your passive) is actually somewhat clumsy.
On January 07 2013 06:39 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 03:17 Nos- wrote:
As a side note, you might be wondering why I have no armor penetration runes. One of the primary reasons is that the top priority for an ADC in lane is to cs, which is why I have so many ad runes to help with that. A more subtle reason is that I don’t think armor penetration runes are worth it in comparison with its ad counterpart. This is largely due to the new way penetration is calculated. I'm really curious regarding his "subtle reason". I certainly agree with his primary reason, but it seems extremely odd that he'd argue penetration runes are worse after the change.
The penetration value is lower, and unless you're getting Cleaver or LW early, the new % stacking rules don't benefit you until much later.
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United States37500 Posts
On January 07 2013 06:48 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 06:25 wei2coolman wrote:On January 07 2013 06:05 TheYango wrote:On January 07 2013 06:03 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 07 2013 05:54 TheYango wrote:
The fact that IBG doesn't provide any attack speed is a point that I did forget about in yesterday's discussion.
Even if you've got that cute AoE slow, it's still very clumsy to kite with base attack speed. Solution, just build Statikk Shiv and go for maximum Ez Q proc cheese. See, then at the point where you've got IBC+Shiv, you've spent 6k gold and still have absolutely no AD from items and so you do no damage. Usually what I see is BT->IBG->LW->IE, rarely do I see IBG and Shiv together. And this exactly has the problem which I stated earlier--when you have 0 attack speed, you don't necessarily end up kiting better, because kiting with 0 bonus attack speed (other than your passive) is actually somewhat clumsy.
I assume we're still talking about Ez, he does have innate AS through his passive.
Depending if you need that armor pen, you could fit PD, Shiv or even a Zeal before LW.
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On January 07 2013 05:54 TheYango wrote:
The fact that IBG doesn't provide any attack speed is a point that I did forget about in yesterday's discussion.
Even if you've got that cute AoE slow, it's still very clumsy to kite with base attack speed.
BT -> IBG -> PD -> LW
PS: you're ezreal, q procs on hit and lowers the cooldown on your built-in blink
Have you actually tried IBG or are you just mathcrafting it? I think if you actually built it you'd probably double its perceived value.
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All the things Weixiao said in regards to items are specifically for Ezreal, although I think he still offers valuable information on the items independent of the heroes using them.
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On January 07 2013 06:53 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 05:54 TheYango wrote:
The fact that IBG doesn't provide any attack speed is a point that I did forget about in yesterday's discussion.
Even if you've got that cute AoE slow, it's still very clumsy to kite with base attack speed. BT -> IBG -> PD -> LW PS: you're ezreal, q procs on hit and lowers the cooldown on your built-in blink Have you actually tried IBG or are you just mathcrafting it? I think if you actually built it you'd probably double its perceived value.
I've seen it from the other side many times, and it's the most infuriating thing ever playing against it. You could wipe out their front line entirely and you still get kited for days by the 5s cd blink retarded slow on 2s cd ezreal.
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On January 07 2013 06:53 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 05:54 TheYango wrote:
The fact that IBG doesn't provide any attack speed is a point that I did forget about in yesterday's discussion.
Even if you've got that cute AoE slow, it's still very clumsy to kite with base attack speed. BT -> IBG -> PD -> LW PS: you're ezreal, q procs on hit and lowers the cooldown on your built-in blink Have you actually tried IBG or are you just mathcrafting it? I think if you actually built it you'd probably double its perceived value.
Well I don't think anyone can deny that IBG is offensively worse than TF/IE. It has quite a high amount of wasted stats (The mana is not great, the AP isn't great, the armor is good and the CDR great).
Plus the only thing that IBG has over Phage/TF or even red buff is that it's a small aoe proc. I've played with it on Ez, and it's really fun to be able to zone well with it (enemies need to commit immensely to get to you, and it gives a little bit of high range waveclear), but your damage suffers hugely.
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Nyjacky playing Eve, but no DFG yet. Seriously. WTF. BUY DFG PLZ. BEST EVE ITEM EVER.
Holy shit, voyboy and st.v pretty much 2v5's nomnom O.o, until nyjacky comes in.
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On January 07 2013 07:08 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 06:53 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:On January 07 2013 05:54 TheYango wrote:
The fact that IBG doesn't provide any attack speed is a point that I did forget about in yesterday's discussion.
Even if you've got that cute AoE slow, it's still very clumsy to kite with base attack speed. BT -> IBG -> PD -> LW PS: you're ezreal, q procs on hit and lowers the cooldown on your built-in blink Have you actually tried IBG or are you just mathcrafting it? I think if you actually built it you'd probably double its perceived value. Well I don't think anyone can deny that IBG is offensively worse than TF/IE. It has quite a high amount of wasted stats (The mana is not great, the AP isn't great, the armor is good and the CDR great). Plus the only thing that IBG has over Phage/TF or even red buff is that it's a small aoe proc. I've played with it on Ez, and it's really fun to be able to zone well with it (enemies need to commit immensely to get to you, and it gives a little bit of high range waveclear), but your damage suffers hugely.
Phage/TF are random procs while IBG is not. That is a very significant difference.
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EPT
