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On January 07 2013 01:57 Yagami wrote:
I wonder what's the best way to build ad carries in season 3. What should be my thought process about what to buy in different situations.
I've doing BT/Zeal/IE/PD + LW and defensive item if i'm doing well or IE/PD if i fall behind and need to rush late game.
I've seen a lot of pros getting LW as third item and using statikk shiv and black cleaver a lot( i know BC really is good on MF, but what about other adcs like Ezreal?).
So what items do think are the best for ad carry in season 3 and in what situations?
Personally I prefer the order: Vamp - IE/Zeal (dependent on how auto attack focused the champ is for which first) then same again with PD/Bloodthirster. I'm not keen on statik shiv or BC at all on my usual champs (Ezreal, Caitlyn, Ashe or Vayne).
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Nyjacky eats 2 bans. lol, Veigar and TF.
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On January 07 2013 04:36 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 04:34 -Zoda- wrote:On January 07 2013 03:53 smOOthMayDie wrote:On January 07 2013 03:42 Nos- wrote:On January 07 2013 03:39 justiceknight wrote:On January 07 2013 03:17 Nos- wrote:Don't know if anyone really cares, but I've done a quick and rough translation of Weixiao's video, up to his rune page explanation. I more or less translated his personal opinions on each mastery page, as he has 3 pre-set ones (21/9/0, 14/16/0, 14/3/3). Masteries: + Show Spoiler +
Since there’s no lifesteal masteries this season, I like 14/13/3, it gives both defense and offense, along with the mana regen on utility since all ADs use mana. In regards to the crit mastery, when it comes to ads such as Corki or Ezreal, a full 21/9/0 is not as useful since they don’t rely on critical damage as much. 21/9/0 is more suited for those that need the critical damage such as Varus and Vayne (I think he said one more but I don’t know who he was talking about). I also use a 14/16/0 mastery page for the Tenacious perk in the defensive tree.
The 14/13/3 page I find to be very useful for Ezreal, Corki, and Graves. Although I am forgoing a bit of offensive potential with only 14 points in the offensive tree, the defensive perks work very well with these 3 heroes, however when it comes to people that need to be doing huge critical damage (I think he lists Tristana, Varus, and Vayne) the 21/9/0 mastery is more suitable. If you're finding yourself mana starved, alter the 21/9/0 mastery into 21/6/3, with 3 points in Meditation. It is important to note that in the defensive style mastery (14/13/3 or 14/16/0) I always take Veteran’s Scars and Durability, and with the 16 in defensive, the Tenacious perk as well. I personally really like the 14/16/0 page.
Runes + Show Spoiler +
First set of runes: 13 armor, 12 magic resist, 15 attack damage. ad quints, armor yellows, ad reds, mr blues. This is a very common and generic AD rune page, a lot of people use it, but as a word of caution, do not use this page with ADs that use a lot of mana. The lack of mana regen is very noticeable.
Second set of runes: 13 armor, 12 magic resist, 13 attack damage, 2% life steal. 2 ad quints,
1 lifesteal quint, armor yellows, ad reds, mr blues. It’s a slight modification of the above rune page, and I put one lifesteal quint in here to compensate for the lack of lifesteal mastery. I still find lifesteal to be an important and useful stat, and the effect is more noticeable if you’re paired with a nunu support.
Third set of runes: 13 armor, 5.4 magic resist, 4.9 mana/5, 15 ad. ad quints, armor yellows, ad reds, 5 mana regen/lvl blues, 4 mr blues. This is a page more specifically tailored for Ezreal, Corki, and Graves. So long as you don’t spam your skills too much in lane, the mana regen will be enough to keep your mana up.
As a side note, you might be wondering why I have no armor penetration runes. One of the primary reasons is that the top priority for an ADC in lane is to cs, which is why I have so many ad runes to help with that. A more subtle reason is that I don’t think armor penetration runes are worth it in comparison with its ad counterpart. This is largely due to the new penetration calculation algorithm.
Edit: I'll keep on translating if you guys are interested. do you have the source for this? Yeah I edited my previous post to have the original video. Does it say anything about what summoner spells he's using majority of the time? And what points is he doing exactly for the 14/13/3 rune page? Something like: + Show Spoiler + ? Or is he putting a point into Summoners resolve and running heal/cleanse/barrier, and then putting 4/4 into the attack speed one instead of 3/4 with ignite mastery From what I see on the video (that is fucking long to load) it looks more like this : http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/mastery-tree-planner#&tree1=1-3-0-0-4-0-0-3-1-0-0-2-0-0-0-0-0-0&tree2=0-0-4-0-3-0-0-2-2-1-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&tree3=0-0-3-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&v=2 Won't work, you only have 7 points in the first 2 defensive tiers.
Uhrrrr, their tool is bugged...
Then it should be like this : http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/mastery-tree-planner#&tree1=1-3-0-0-4-0-0-3-1-0-0-2-0-0-0-0-0-0&tree2=0-1-4-0-3-0-0-2-1-1-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&tree3=0-0-3-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&v=2
But I really thought he maxed Relentless.
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On January 07 2013 05:03 TSBspartacus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 01:57 Yagami wrote:
I wonder what's the best way to build ad carries in season 3. What should be my thought process about what to buy in different situations.
I've doing BT/Zeal/IE/PD + LW and defensive item if i'm doing well or IE/PD if i fall behind and need to rush late game.
I've seen a lot of pros getting LW as third item and using statikk shiv and black cleaver a lot( i know BC really is good on MF, but what about other adcs like Ezreal?).
So what items do think are the best for ad carry in season 3 and in what situations? Personally I prefer the order: Vamp - IE/Zeal (dependent on how auto attack focused the champ is for which first) then same again with PD/Bloodthirster. I'm not keen on statik shiv or BC at all on my usual champs (Ezreal, Caitlyn, Ashe or Vayne).
I haven't been able to play much ADC but I've been feeling like IE is a lot weaker now compared to BT. I'll probably start getting BT first for it's improved build path, starting damage, and IE's lower starting damage. It still probably does less damage as a first item but costs a lot less and no longer requires/loses too many stacks and the lifesteal can make laning easier.
Then build into PD, IE, and LW if there is armor to shred. I feel like I shouldn't need BC because someone else on my team may build it and the stacks are per target. But LW does stack with BC.
I also think BC is a good starter on champs that have AoE physical dots just because it lowers the armor of everyone they hit by 25%. Which helps you and the rest of your team.
I don't like shiv. Personally I feel like it's weaker on most champs (shaco who really doesn't scale well with crit chance) than ionic spark was and that spark procced more(every 4 hits). It also doesn't give enough crit chance. If there were an item that granted 45% crit chance and nothing else, (triple cape), then I'd get IE, PD, triple cape every single game just because of how hard crit scales.
I think Runaan's is ridiculously strong against people when they're grouped up but weak otherwise since it's a slightly inefficient source of a stat that's easy to find and doesn't stack well (as).
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Elementz went weird items for Lulu. I don't play her, but I don't see how mobility boots and chalice would be helpful. She doesn't have a hard engage to make use of the speed and doesn't spam heals so the mana from chalice would only help in lane.
It seems weird that Elise can just build tanky items and mpen, but she doesn't seem to be as bad as old Cassio.
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On January 07 2013 05:16 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 05:03 TSBspartacus wrote:On January 07 2013 01:57 Yagami wrote:
I wonder what's the best way to build ad carries in season 3. What should be my thought process about what to buy in different situations.
I've doing BT/Zeal/IE/PD + LW and defensive item if i'm doing well or IE/PD if i fall behind and need to rush late game.
I've seen a lot of pros getting LW as third item and using statikk shiv and black cleaver a lot( i know BC really is good on MF, but what about other adcs like Ezreal?).
So what items do think are the best for ad carry in season 3 and in what situations? Personally I prefer the order: Vamp - IE/Zeal (dependent on how auto attack focused the champ is for which first) then same again with PD/Bloodthirster. I'm not keen on statik shiv or BC at all on my usual champs (Ezreal, Caitlyn, Ashe or Vayne). I don't like shiv. Personally I feel like it's weaker on most champs (shaco who really doesn't scale well with crit chance)....
I think Shiv works very well with Shaco because it gives him a ton of MS and also you're guaranteed to proc the crit lighting on every gank. It also helps him clear the jungle much faster. It may not scale well into late game, but his mid game is crazy strong with it.
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On January 07 2013 05:36 BlackMagister wrote:
Elementz went weird items for Lulu. I don't play her, but I don't see how mobility boots and chalice would be helpful. She doesn't have a hard engage to make use of the speed and doesn't spam heals so the mana from chalice would only help in lane.
It seems weird that Elise can just build tanky items and mpen, but she doesn't seem to be as bad as old Cassio.
I believe it was made for lane, Getting the ms allows easier Q land, which allows for nicer follow up from Ashe.
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United States23745 Posts
On January 07 2013 05:36 BlackMagister wrote:
Elementz went weird items for Lulu. I don't play her, but I don't see how mobility boots and chalice would be helpful. She doesn't have a hard engage to make use of the speed and doesn't spam heals so the mana from chalice would only help in lane.
Spam Glitterlance and abuse that 80% slow, plus it build into Crucible so even if you build it for lane it has an added benefit outside of lane. I would assume the Moba boots are for getting into Glitterlance range, I don't love it but it's not a bad build.
Edit: Definitely focused for lane rather than team fights.
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I asked Fnatic.Rekless on stream what does he think about trinity force on Ezreal and he said that it was too expensive and you should invest that money on IE/PD for better stats.
Now Weixiao says you should get TF on Ezreal....
I'm confused , help me please 
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On January 07 2013 05:42 Yagami wrote:I asked Fnatic.Rekless on stream what does he thinks about trinity force on Ezreal and he said that it was too expensive and you should invest that money on IE/PD for better stats. Now Weixiao says you should get TF on Ezreal.... I'm confused , help me please
Trinity force is stronger for early/mid and ie/pd for late.That's about it lol.Also I'd listen to weixiao about ad if he says something over anyone else :D.
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United States47024 Posts
As much as I'd like to feel vindicated that Weixiao doesn't like IBG on Ezreal either, I'd point out that a single pro's opinion is just as error-prone as anyone else's.
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On January 07 2013 05:42 Yagami wrote:I asked Fnatic.Rekless on stream what does he thinks about trinity force on Ezreal and he said that it was too expensive and you should invest that money on IE/PD for better stats. Now Weixiao says you should get TF on Ezreal.... I'm confused , help me please
It's a matter of preference. Reckless gets IE/PD on everyone (Ez, Vayne included), whereas Weixiao probably likes the TF + BT poke/kiting style for Ezreal better.
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For what it's worth Doublelift, is still getting TF on Ezreal, so you have the opinion of 2 top3 ad carries vs another good AD.
DL doesn't seem very fond of the new AD items anyway though, the only item he's been building is Mercurial Scimitar and that's because it builds out of QSS and Pre S3 he has already prefered qss over GA 100% of the time.
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United States23745 Posts
On January 07 2013 05:44 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 05:42 Yagami wrote:I asked Fnatic.Rekless on stream what does he thinks about trinity force on Ezreal and he said that it was too expensive and you should invest that money on IE/PD for better stats. Now Weixiao says you should get TF on Ezreal.... I'm confused , help me please Trinity force is stronger for early/mid and ie/pd for late.That's about it lol.Also I'd listen to weixiao about ad if he says something over anyone else :D.
Unless you play at the same level as Weixiao you have to take it with a grain of salt. As it was stated, he's good enough he can kite without needing IBG, but someone's whose mechanics aren't at the same level can abuse the ranged AOE slow that IBG provides (at 1100 range with Q) to make up for their lack of raw skill.
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On January 07 2013 05:48 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 05:44 nafta wrote:On January 07 2013 05:42 Yagami wrote:I asked Fnatic.Rekless on stream what does he thinks about trinity force on Ezreal and he said that it was too expensive and you should invest that money on IE/PD for better stats. Now Weixiao says you should get TF on Ezreal.... I'm confused , help me please Trinity force is stronger for early/mid and ie/pd for late.That's about it lol.Also I'd listen to weixiao about ad if he says something over anyone else :D. Unless you play at the same level as Weixiao you have to take it with a grain of salt. As it was stated, he's good enough he can kite without needing IBG, but someone's whose mechanics aren't at the same level can abuse the ranged AOE slow that IBG provides (at 1100 range with Q) to make up for their lack of raw skill.
Well he asked about trinity or ie and out of both I'd definitely say that tf makes it a lot easier to survive/kite in a teamfight .
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United States47024 Posts
The fact that IBG doesn't provide any attack speed is a point that I did forget about in yesterday's discussion.
Even if you've got that cute AoE slow, it's still very clumsy to kite with base attack speed.
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On January 07 2013 05:48 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 05:44 nafta wrote:On January 07 2013 05:42 Yagami wrote:I asked Fnatic.Rekless on stream what does he thinks about trinity force on Ezreal and he said that it was too expensive and you should invest that money on IE/PD for better stats. Now Weixiao says you should get TF on Ezreal.... I'm confused , help me please Trinity force is stronger for early/mid and ie/pd for late.That's about it lol.Also I'd listen to weixiao about ad if he says something over anyone else :D. Unless you play at the same level as Weixiao you have to take it with a grain of salt. As it was stated, he's good enough he can kite without needing IBG, but someone's whose mechanics aren't at the same level can abuse the ranged AOE slow that IBG provides (at 1100 range with Q) to make up for their lack of raw skill.
Or they could just work on their raw skill. I guess it depends what your intentions are when you play the game. Do you just want to play for fun or improvement? If for fun why are you worrying what's the very best when you can just work with what is almost best but more fun for you?
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Was WX's analysis about his personal thoughts alone or also about solo queue? I wonder if his views are also influenced from team play where he knows there will be peel/support/etc and his main focus is killing things. I also wonder how much builds and playstyles change shifting from team play to solo queue play.
I think he might be undervaluing PD. Iirc it's still the biggest crit stick and one of the few MS items for an AD (?) even if it was nerfed a lot. Also curious what his standard build for other AD Carries is.
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Weixiao thinks AS and crit are king for ADs from what I gathered in his video. BC, IBG, and other potential ad items that don't have AS is probably a huge turn off for Weixiao as a player.
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United States23745 Posts
On January 07 2013 05:54 TheYango wrote:
The fact that IBG doesn't provide any attack speed is a point that I did forget about in yesterday's discussion.
Even if you've got that cute AoE slow, it's still very clumsy to kite with base attack speed.
Solution, just build Statikk Shiv and go for maximum Ez Q proc cheese.
On January 07 2013 05:56 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 05:48 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 07 2013 05:44 nafta wrote:On January 07 2013 05:42 Yagami wrote:I asked Fnatic.Rekless on stream what does he thinks about trinity force on Ezreal and he said that it was too expensive and you should invest that money on IE/PD for better stats. Now Weixiao says you should get TF on Ezreal.... I'm confused , help me please Trinity force is stronger for early/mid and ie/pd for late.That's about it lol.Also I'd listen to weixiao about ad if he says something over anyone else :D. Unless you play at the same level as Weixiao you have to take it with a grain of salt. As it was stated, he's good enough he can kite without needing IBG, but someone's whose mechanics aren't at the same level can abuse the ranged AOE slow that IBG provides (at 1100 range with Q) to make up for their lack of raw skill. Or they could just work on their raw skill. I guess it depends what your intentions are when you play the game. Do you just want to play for fun or improvement? If for fun why are you worrying what's the very best when you can just work with what is almost best but more fun for you?
Why not both lol? I can build IBG and play and improve my mechanics and have fun and maybe someday realize I'm good enough I don't need it. The point I was trying to make is most people aren't, and never will be, as good as Weixiao so there are builds that he would never consider building that might still work for someone of a lesser skill level.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dvwhv.jpg)
