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People are missing the point in this whole AL ghosting thing. It's a systemic problem rather than an isolated case of assholeness. You have online qualifiers and tournaments with money and exposure on the line on one hand, and very simple ways of spectating said matches (with a 3min delay) on the other hand. So what exactly is stopping teams from having a friend spectate or just watch the stream if it's the case and tell them the buff timers and when wards expire?
It's naive to assume that everyone else is being ethical in private and the only ones doing it got caught, especially considering that you actually have to out yourself with a streaming blunder to get caught. I'm sure it happened hundreds of times before and it will keep happening, regardless of this incident.
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On December 24 2012 19:20 jcc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 19:17 Sufficiency wrote:On December 24 2012 19:15 jcc wrote:On December 24 2012 13:07 HazMat wrote:On December 24 2012 13:06 Kouda wrote:
FXO (Navitar's team) going against PL's team on PL's stream right now Ggod is also a tler  . Idk why but this made me real happy, first time i been called a TLer, shake you too kind <3. Ya Navi did damn well, his bot lane seemed pretty reliant on generally strong picks tho, and Nancy dominated top, Entus needs heavy work. But their jungler was solid. Our jungler is our biggest weakpoint. We are currently trying out another for top 32, we dunno if our current one can handle it. Oh hi ggod  Were you referring to vfx? Isn't he like... gold elo? Ya, but he formed the team so we trying to give him a chance, but when versing real organization and amateur pros, his lack of individual skill and experience is really hurting. We thinking of fitting in a jungle sub, him being our weakest link
Yea I spent a bit of time watching PL's stream. The change was quite noticeable when you brought the new one in playing as Amumu. I think the big concern is when the tournament starts and it becomes easier to ban out PL. Then again some games his teleport/revive Karthus seems like a gift to the other team. Good luck with the jungler find and qualifying!
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On December 24 2012 19:27 Dan HH wrote:
People are missing the point in this whole AL ghosting thing. It's a systemic problem rather than an isolated case of assholeness. You have online qualifiers and tournaments with money and exposure on the line on one hand, and very simple ways of spectating said matches (with a 3min delay) on the other hand. So what exactly is stopping teams from having a friend spectate or just watch the stream if it's the case and tell them the buff timers and when wards expire?
is this a rhetorical question? because it's really easy to solve
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On December 24 2012 11:45 Alaric wrote:
Seeing Chaox play Cass makes me wonder about Muramana on her. She uses her mana faster than a Ryze though.
It works on none of her spells, so I wouldn't bother. E is, as far as I know, technically an AoE spell, at least that's how it works for Rylai's and Revolver/WotA.
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On December 24 2012 19:52 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 19:27 Dan HH wrote:
People are missing the point in this whole AL ghosting thing. It's a systemic problem rather than an isolated case of assholeness. You have online qualifiers and tournaments with money and exposure on the line on one hand, and very simple ways of spectating said matches (with a 3min delay) on the other hand. So what exactly is stopping teams from having a friend spectate or just watch the stream if it's the case and tell them the buff timers and when wards expire? is this a rhetorical question? because it's really easy to solve
And how is that? In rare off stream matches like that one yeah, they can turn off spectating but for most notable online tournaments there is no solution.
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On December 24 2012 20:15 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 19:52 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 19:27 Dan HH wrote:
People are missing the point in this whole AL ghosting thing. It's a systemic problem rather than an isolated case of assholeness. You have online qualifiers and tournaments with money and exposure on the line on one hand, and very simple ways of spectating said matches (with a 3min delay) on the other hand. So what exactly is stopping teams from having a friend spectate or just watch the stream if it's the case and tell them the buff timers and when wards expire? is this a rhetorical question? because it's really easy to solve And how is that? In rare off stream matches like that one yeah, they can turn off spectating but for most notable online tournaments there is no solution.
They could cast from repla..oh yea. Stream delay + the spectator delay would remove the issue of ghosting.
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On December 24 2012 20:15 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 19:52 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 19:27 Dan HH wrote:
People are missing the point in this whole AL ghosting thing. It's a systemic problem rather than an isolated case of assholeness. You have online qualifiers and tournaments with money and exposure on the line on one hand, and very simple ways of spectating said matches (with a 3min delay) on the other hand. So what exactly is stopping teams from having a friend spectate or just watch the stream if it's the case and tell them the buff timers and when wards expire? is this a rhetorical question? because it's really easy to solve And how is that? In rare off stream matches like that one yeah, they can turn off spectating but for most notable online tournaments there is no solution.
Integrity... and the people who are getting caught need to be punished. (iwilldominate styloz)
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On December 24 2012 20:15 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 19:52 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 19:27 Dan HH wrote:
People are missing the point in this whole AL ghosting thing. It's a systemic problem rather than an isolated case of assholeness. You have online qualifiers and tournaments with money and exposure on the line on one hand, and very simple ways of spectating said matches (with a 3min delay) on the other hand. So what exactly is stopping teams from having a friend spectate or just watch the stream if it's the case and tell them the buff timers and when wards expire? is this a rhetorical question? because it's really easy to solve And how is that? In rare off stream matches like that one yeah, they can turn off spectating but for most notable online tournaments there is no solution.
custom game ---> allow spectators: lobby only
set stream delay to two minutes
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On December 24 2012 20:31 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 20:15 Dan HH wrote:On December 24 2012 19:52 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 19:27 Dan HH wrote:
People are missing the point in this whole AL ghosting thing. It's a systemic problem rather than an isolated case of assholeness. You have online qualifiers and tournaments with money and exposure on the line on one hand, and very simple ways of spectating said matches (with a 3min delay) on the other hand. So what exactly is stopping teams from having a friend spectate or just watch the stream if it's the case and tell them the buff timers and when wards expire? is this a rhetorical question? because it's really easy to solve And how is that? In rare off stream matches like that one yeah, they can turn off spectating but for most notable online tournaments there is no solution. custom game ---> allow spectators: lobby only set stream delay to two minutes
2 minutes extra delay only solves the ward timer problem, not to mention that absolutely no tournament organizer added extra delay so far and I doubt they will since everyone singles out AL rather than talking about the underlying issue which is that anyone can do it and it's almost impossible to get caught.
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On December 24 2012 20:37 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 20:31 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 20:15 Dan HH wrote:On December 24 2012 19:52 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 19:27 Dan HH wrote:
People are missing the point in this whole AL ghosting thing. It's a systemic problem rather than an isolated case of assholeness. You have online qualifiers and tournaments with money and exposure on the line on one hand, and very simple ways of spectating said matches (with a 3min delay) on the other hand. So what exactly is stopping teams from having a friend spectate or just watch the stream if it's the case and tell them the buff timers and when wards expire? is this a rhetorical question? because it's really easy to solve And how is that? In rare off stream matches like that one yeah, they can turn off spectating but for most notable online tournaments there is no solution. custom game ---> allow spectators: lobby only set stream delay to two minutes 2 minutes extra delay only solves the ward timer problem, not to mention that absolutely no tournament organizer added extra delay so far and I doubt they will since everyone singles out AL rather than talking about the underlying issue which is that anyone can do it and it's almost impossible to get caught.
watching a total 5 minute delayed stream with spec delay is worthless. nobody will even bother and nobody will care if you do.
No sensible person, anyway.
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On December 24 2012 20:37 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 20:31 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 20:15 Dan HH wrote:On December 24 2012 19:52 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 19:27 Dan HH wrote:
People are missing the point in this whole AL ghosting thing. It's a systemic problem rather than an isolated case of assholeness. You have online qualifiers and tournaments with money and exposure on the line on one hand, and very simple ways of spectating said matches (with a 3min delay) on the other hand. So what exactly is stopping teams from having a friend spectate or just watch the stream if it's the case and tell them the buff timers and when wards expire? is this a rhetorical question? because it's really easy to solve And how is that? In rare off stream matches like that one yeah, they can turn off spectating but for most notable online tournaments there is no solution. custom game ---> allow spectators: lobby only set stream delay to two minutes 2 minutes extra delay only solves the ward timer problem, not to mention that absolutely no tournament organizer added extra delay so far and I doubt they will since everyone singles out AL rather than talking about the underlying issue which is that anyone can do it and it's almost impossible to get caught.
It was never an issue before until now. You aren't going to get word yet from the companies that run online tournaments on how they plan on fixing it yet. However its quite apparent that there is an issue. AL is obviously getting thrown under the bus because they got caught. What would you like, everyone to start blindly accusing other teams of ghosting? Honestly the extra couple of minute delay would be plenty. I can't imagine many teams playing in a streamed tournament game not having a single clue of their opponents jungle timers. It sucks, but unless you want to witch hunt the past, its really not a big problem. Unless they don't try and prevent this from happening again in the future.
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I think Dota ingame stuff was shifted to 6 minutes(Know for TI it was not sure if rest of tournies were too) while regular spec is still 2 minutes(Or is it 3 I forget). It just makes sense to me to have it 5-6 minutes.
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On December 24 2012 20:41 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 20:37 Dan HH wrote:On December 24 2012 20:31 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 20:15 Dan HH wrote:On December 24 2012 19:52 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 19:27 Dan HH wrote:
People are missing the point in this whole AL ghosting thing. It's a systemic problem rather than an isolated case of assholeness. You have online qualifiers and tournaments with money and exposure on the line on one hand, and very simple ways of spectating said matches (with a 3min delay) on the other hand. So what exactly is stopping teams from having a friend spectate or just watch the stream if it's the case and tell them the buff timers and when wards expire? is this a rhetorical question? because it's really easy to solve And how is that? In rare off stream matches like that one yeah, they can turn off spectating but for most notable online tournaments there is no solution. custom game ---> allow spectators: lobby only set stream delay to two minutes 2 minutes extra delay only solves the ward timer problem, not to mention that absolutely no tournament organizer added extra delay so far and I doubt they will since everyone singles out AL rather than talking about the underlying issue which is that anyone can do it and it's almost impossible to get caught. watching a total 5 minute delayed stream with spec delay is worthless. nobody will even bother and nobody will care if you do. No sensible person, anyway.
But do you really think anyone is gonna add extra delay? Cause I really doubt it.
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On December 24 2012 20:46 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 20:41 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 20:37 Dan HH wrote:On December 24 2012 20:31 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 20:15 Dan HH wrote:On December 24 2012 19:52 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 19:27 Dan HH wrote:
People are missing the point in this whole AL ghosting thing. It's a systemic problem rather than an isolated case of assholeness. You have online qualifiers and tournaments with money and exposure on the line on one hand, and very simple ways of spectating said matches (with a 3min delay) on the other hand. So what exactly is stopping teams from having a friend spectate or just watch the stream if it's the case and tell them the buff timers and when wards expire? is this a rhetorical question? because it's really easy to solve And how is that? In rare off stream matches like that one yeah, they can turn off spectating but for most notable online tournaments there is no solution. custom game ---> allow spectators: lobby only set stream delay to two minutes 2 minutes extra delay only solves the ward timer problem, not to mention that absolutely no tournament organizer added extra delay so far and I doubt they will since everyone singles out AL rather than talking about the underlying issue which is that anyone can do it and it's almost impossible to get caught. watching a total 5 minute delayed stream with spec delay is worthless. nobody will even bother and nobody will care if you do. No sensible person, anyway. But do you really think anyone is gonna add extra delay? Cause I really doubt it.
I don't really care. I'm just correcting the impression that it's a problem without an easy solution. There's not any real obstacles to organizers eliminating it entirely, if they were particularly interested in doing so.
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On December 24 2012 20:50 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 20:46 Dan HH wrote:On December 24 2012 20:41 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 20:37 Dan HH wrote:On December 24 2012 20:31 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 20:15 Dan HH wrote:On December 24 2012 19:52 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 24 2012 19:27 Dan HH wrote:
People are missing the point in this whole AL ghosting thing. It's a systemic problem rather than an isolated case of assholeness. You have online qualifiers and tournaments with money and exposure on the line on one hand, and very simple ways of spectating said matches (with a 3min delay) on the other hand. So what exactly is stopping teams from having a friend spectate or just watch the stream if it's the case and tell them the buff timers and when wards expire? is this a rhetorical question? because it's really easy to solve And how is that? In rare off stream matches like that one yeah, they can turn off spectating but for most notable online tournaments there is no solution. custom game ---> allow spectators: lobby only set stream delay to two minutes 2 minutes extra delay only solves the ward timer problem, not to mention that absolutely no tournament organizer added extra delay so far and I doubt they will since everyone singles out AL rather than talking about the underlying issue which is that anyone can do it and it's almost impossible to get caught. watching a total 5 minute delayed stream with spec delay is worthless. nobody will even bother and nobody will care if you do. No sensible person, anyway. But do you really think anyone is gonna add extra delay? Cause I really doubt it. I don't really care. I'm just correcting the impression that it's a problem without an easy solution. There's not any real obstacles to organizers eliminating it entirely, if they were particularly interested in doing so.
I worded that poorly, when I said there is no solution I meant to say that no solution will be attempted because everyone's attention is focused on AL instead of the actual problem.
Unless the delay increases in the client itself or there is a massive request from the community for organizers to do this, it will never be standard. Just like covering summoner spells in champion select is not standard.
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On December 24 2012 19:58 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 11:45 Alaric wrote:
Seeing Chaox play Cass makes me wonder about Muramana on her. She uses her mana faster than a Ryze though.
It works on none of her spells, so I wouldn't bother. E is, as far as I know, technically an AoE spell, at least that's how it works for Rylai's and Revolver/WotA.
No, it's only for Rylai's. It still benefits fully from spell vamp. I'm pretty sure it's still counted as a single-target spell but Riot just didn't give it full benefit from Rylai's in order for it not to be completely broken.
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On December 24 2012 21:14 EquilasH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 19:58 Shiv. wrote:On December 24 2012 11:45 Alaric wrote:
Seeing Chaox play Cass makes me wonder about Muramana on her. She uses her mana faster than a Ryze though.
It works on none of her spells, so I wouldn't bother. E is, as far as I know, technically an AoE spell, at least that's how it works for Rylai's and Revolver/WotA. No, it's only for Rylai's. It still benefits fully from spell vamp. I'm pretty sure it's still counted as a single-target spell but Riot just didn't give it full benefit from Rylai's in order for it not to be completely broken.
Just tested, Muramana does not proc off of Twin Fangs.
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I really miss that old particle for black cleaver, it looked so awesome.
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On December 24 2012 21:29 Telegnosis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 21:14 EquilasH wrote:On December 24 2012 19:58 Shiv. wrote:On December 24 2012 11:45 Alaric wrote:
Seeing Chaox play Cass makes me wonder about Muramana on her. She uses her mana faster than a Ryze though.
It works on none of her spells, so I wouldn't bother. E is, as far as I know, technically an AoE spell, at least that's how it works for Rylai's and Revolver/WotA. No, it's only for Rylai's. It still benefits fully from spell vamp. I'm pretty sure it's still counted as a single-target spell but Riot just didn't give it full benefit from Rylai's in order for it not to be completely broken. Just tested, Muramana does not proc off of Twin Fangs.
Hmm, it might be counted as an AoE spell then, but I'm pretty sure it still gets full effect from vamp?
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On December 24 2012 19:58 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 11:45 Alaric wrote:
Seeing Chaox play Cass makes me wonder about Muramana on her. She uses her mana faster than a Ryze though.
It works on none of her spells, so I wouldn't bother. E is, as far as I know, technically an AoE spell, at least that's how it works for Rylai's and Revolver/WotA.
It works on E. My friend read something questioning the same thing yesterday and immediately said "That sounds like bullshit, I'm gonna test it." and went into a custom game to check it out.
I am taking his word for it, but he has no real reason to lie about it.
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EPT
