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[Patch 1.0.0.152: Preseason 3] General Discussion - Page 175

Forum Index > LoL General
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sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-11 21:21:35
December 11 2012 21:20 GMT
#3481
On December 12 2012 05:47 phyvo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 04:39 sylverfyre wrote:
On December 12 2012 04:22 Sabin010 wrote:
The point is we're not maxing Q for damage. The damage is coming mostly from right clicks at all stages of the game, this is why black cleaver and nashor's tooth are there. This is why the runes are set to give you true damage on auto attacks vs low armour targets. We're are still going to get the utility of the passive on e and w at 9 and 13, while maxing cdr to get these crowd controls off 2 times in fights.

Then just play Muramana Ezreal or Ashe. (based on whether you want mobility or CC/Utility)

I've become a big fan of the build Smash discovered when trolling, but decided was awesome - Ezreal Muramana + Frozen Fist + 40% CDR. Fill with other AD items and poke/kite like a boss, while making it hard for them to engage because there are ice patches everywhere, and you have a ~5 second flash to boot.


I sang praises about the muramana+FF combo on EZ when everything was only on the PBE and nothing about that build changed at all going onto live (aside from a very slight nerf).

Do I get to join the super hipster club? I guess it doesn't count since I don't play ranked so I'm not even bronze, technically... =(

Eh, I'm only silver too, but I really enjoy theorycrafting and game design. (I played like 20 ranked games in all of 2012, so maybe I could be better if I gave myself time to find my elo?)

Watching smash kite an enemy team with Icepatch Qs from their inhibitor turret to his own, leaving them with too little health to push the turret, (After some of his teammates died on a bad dive of the inhib turret) sealed the deal from thinking it was cute but kinda trollish, to an effective and cool (pun totally intended) build.
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
December 11 2012 21:24 GMT
#3482
Would iceborn be a good idea on kog, i wonder.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
December 11 2012 21:30 GMT
#3483
On December 12 2012 06:24 thenexusp wrote:
Would iceborn be a good idea on kog, i wonder.


Why not get Frozen Mallet instead?
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Abenson
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada4122 Posts
December 11 2012 21:32 GMT
#3484
Is it true that if I have 9 ad reds and 1 ad blue I'll get 15.5 bonus ad which rounds to 16?
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
December 11 2012 21:33 GMT
#3485
On December 12 2012 06:30 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 06:24 thenexusp wrote:
Would iceborn be a good idea on kog, i wonder.


Why not get Frozen Mallet instead?


AOE Slow vs. Single Target.
Freeeeeeedom
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-11 21:40:38
December 11 2012 21:38 GMT
#3486
Malady Kog is still the most under-explored route of development for Kog.

I don't even think you have to commit to full on-hit. The insane DPS/gold of Malady is good enough for it to be good on its own, and you could transition directly back toward AD-based itemization after that.

EDIT: although after the revamp, the item's raw cost-effectiveness took a big hit (particularly given the vastly greater number of attacks needed to stack the -MR debuff). It might not be worth it--I'd have to update the math on it.
Moderator
Keniji
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands2569 Posts
December 11 2012 21:46 GMT
#3487
On December 12 2012 06:32 Abenson wrote:
Is it true that if I have 9 ad reds and 1 ad blue I'll get 15.5 bonus ad which rounds to 16?


If I am not mistaken, it might be rounded in the display, but for the actual calculation of DMG riot does not round.
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
December 11 2012 21:52 GMT
#3488
On December 12 2012 06:46 Keniji wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 06:32 Abenson wrote:
Is it true that if I have 9 ad reds and 1 ad blue I'll get 15.5 bonus ad which rounds to 16?


If I am not mistaken, it might be rounded in the display, but for the actual calculation of DMG riot does not round.

That's correct. It does the damage calculation using all the fractional stats, the rounding is just for display.
jadoth
Profile Joined December 2011
694 Posts
December 11 2012 21:55 GMT
#3489
On December 12 2012 06:38 TheYango wrote:
Malady Kog is still the most under-explored route of development for Kog.

I don't even think you have to commit to full on-hit. The insane DPS/gold of Malady is good enough for it to be good on its own, and you could transition directly back toward AD-based itemization after that.

EDIT: although after the revamp, the item's raw cost-effectiveness took a big hit (particularly given the vastly greater number of attacks needed to stack the -MR debuff). It might not be worth it--I'd have to update the math on it.


I really want to see what can be done with like Malady>Phage>?Wits?> Hurricane >Mallet.
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-11 22:02:20
December 11 2012 22:00 GMT
#3490
On December 12 2012 06:38 TheYango wrote:
Malady Kog is still the most under-explored route of development for Kog.

I don't even think you have to commit to full on-hit. The insane DPS/gold of Malady is good enough for it to be good on its own, and you could transition directly back toward AD-based itemization after that.

EDIT: although after the revamp, the item's raw cost-effectiveness took a big hit (particularly given the vastly greater number of attacks needed to stack the -MR debuff). It might not be worth it--I'd have to update the math on it.


From my Kog spreadsheet Malady is less gold efficient for DPS than Wit's End assuming a 6 seconds of DPSing the same target even if the enemy has just 30 mres. I'm not even accounting for the fact that Wit's End gives you mres.

Mixing and matching on-hit with AD itemization has always been bad and still is.

edit: Mallet and phage are nice though.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
December 11 2012 22:02 GMT
#3491
On December 12 2012 06:11 Ryalnos wrote:
Does Karthus' q proc muramana if it hits a single target?

Not that I'm planning on including it in my Karthus build...

Yes it does.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Keniji
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands2569 Posts
December 11 2012 22:07 GMT
#3492
On December 12 2012 07:02 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 06:11 Ryalnos wrote:
Does Karthus' q proc muramana if it hits a single target?

Not that I'm planning on including it in my Karthus build...

Yes it does.


When you play ryze with muramana, and hit R, does it still work? Or might it actually be smart to not activate R in teamfights now?
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
December 11 2012 22:08 GMT
#3493
On December 12 2012 07:07 Keniji wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 07:02 onlywonderboy wrote:
On December 12 2012 06:11 Ryalnos wrote:
Does Karthus' q proc muramana if it hits a single target?

Not that I'm planning on including it in my Karthus build...

Yes it does.


When you play ryze with muramana, and hit R, does it still work? Or might it actually be smart to not activate R in teamfights now?

It still procs muramana. Your spells are still single target, the secondary effect does not make them AoE, otherwise the spellvamp would suck.
It's your boy Guzma!
Argoth.
Profile Joined December 2004
Germany1961 Posts
December 11 2012 22:17 GMT
#3494
Rofl, and then a random Locodoco appears on Nyjackys stream, playing instead of him Evelyn mid
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 11 2012 22:43 GMT
#3495
On December 12 2012 07:00 phyvo wrote:
From my Kog spreadsheet Malady is less gold efficient for DPS than Wit's End assuming a 6 seconds of DPSing the same target even if the enemy has just 30 mres. I'm not even accounting for the fact that Wit's End gives you mres.

That only accounts for Kog's DPS though, when the only practical scenario where you'd pick Kog with the intent of playing a build that falls off lategame would be to support a powerful magic damage source, allowing you to potentially fill a 2nd position role (otherwise you're going to play Kog aimed toward being a lategame hypercarry anyway).

On December 12 2012 07:00 phyvo wrote:
Mixing and matching on-hit with AD itemization has always been bad and still is.

The idea isn't to mix and match the builds in the long run, but rather to use the powerful midgame timing of Malady to essentially "slingshot" you back onto a reliable lategame physical damage-based build.

The idea was taken from something I've seen in DotA where strong midgame timing-based builds will transition back onto lategame-focused farming items, so that in the case where the game stalls out, you can still preserve reliable lategame ability. In a vacuum, the build that's lategame-focused from the start will develop faster and more reliably, but the midgame item->lategame item transition allows you to preserve smoother overall power growth and using a teamfight/tower/objective advantage to smooth out midgame power gaps.
Moderator
GreenManalishi
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada834 Posts
December 11 2012 22:45 GMT
#3496
On December 12 2012 06:38 TheYango wrote:
Malady Kog is still the most under-explored route of development for Kog.

I don't even think you have to commit to full on-hit. The insane DPS/gold of Malady is good enough for it to be good on its own, and you could transition directly back toward AD-based itemization after that.

EDIT: although after the revamp, the item's raw cost-effectiveness took a big hit (particularly given the vastly greater number of attacks needed to stack the -MR debuff). It might not be worth it--I'd have to update the math on it.

Just get all of the most cost efficient damage items. Malady + Rageblade + Nashor's Kog'Maw.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
December 11 2012 22:48 GMT
#3497
On December 12 2012 07:43 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 07:00 phyvo wrote:
From my Kog spreadsheet Malady is less gold efficient for DPS than Wit's End assuming a 6 seconds of DPSing the same target even if the enemy has just 30 mres. I'm not even accounting for the fact that Wit's End gives you mres.

That only accounts for Kog's DPS though, when the only practical scenario where you'd pick Kog with the intent of playing a build that falls off lategame would be to support a powerful magic damage source, allowing you to potentially fill a 2nd position role (otherwise you're going to play Kog aimed toward being a lategame hypercarry anyway).

Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 07:00 phyvo wrote:
Mixing and matching on-hit with AD itemization has always been bad and still is.

The idea isn't to mix and match the builds in the long run, but rather to use the powerful midgame timing of Malady to essentially "slingshot" you back onto a reliable lategame physical damage-based build.

The idea was taken from something I've seen in DotA where strong midgame timing-based builds will transition back onto lategame-focused farming items, so that in the case where the game stalls out, you can still preserve reliable lategame ability. In a vacuum, the build that's lategame-focused from the start will develop faster and more reliably, but the midgame item->lategame item transition allows you to preserve smoother overall power growth and using a teamfight/tower/objective advantage to smooth out midgame power gaps.

Are you thinking about CLG.eu's problem when yellowpete play kog, while Froggen takes farm 1 position?

But, if mid game damage is such an issue, just play mid game oriented champions, like Caitlyn, or Graves then, there are better ways of shoring up lack of midgame damage, than trying to make Kog work in midgame.
liftlift > tsm
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-11 22:51:33
December 11 2012 22:51 GMT
#3498
So what's with all this talk about Miramana syndra? Why is it good on her? Answer quick plz I'm about to play Syndra.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
c.Deadly
Profile Joined March 2010
United States545 Posts
December 11 2012 22:54 GMT
#3499
On December 12 2012 07:51 HazMat wrote:
So what's with all this talk about Miramana syndra? Why is it good on her? Answer quick plz I'm about to play Syndra.


It adds damage for each individual ball on her ultimate. It's not good =[
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
December 11 2012 22:54 GMT
#3500
Q and ult proc it.
Ult multiple times, with every sphere

I'm still not convinced it's actually GOOD on her, though. So, dunno.
A backwards poet writes inverse.
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