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Liandry's costs 980 to make from book and guise.
For 980 you get:
0 health
0 penetration
25 ap
That passive
Now ask yourself about the passive. Does it really do that much damage? Remember this thing scales off CURRENT health. This means that anyone who died to a teemo shroom probably would have died with or without liandry's (if someone has 500 health left, 10% before resists of that is negligible). The only time it does decent damage is when everyone is around full health, and at that point when you have liandry's, people will be running around with oracles among other things.
I would rather keep the guise until I'm full on slots and buy a blasting wand instead. Liandry's is just a thing to ensure guise isn't a dead end item (kinda like old brutalizer->ghostblade).
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Canada13389 Posts
I play a lot of jungle but for the times i can't get that position, I want to get some solid all around good choices for champs for other roles.
Is there anyone you guys suggest? Or is buying the 450 ip champs worth it to get them all?
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On December 09 2012 13:23 ZeromuS wrote:
I play a lot of jungle but for the times i can't get that position, I want to get some solid all around good choices for champs for other roles.
Is there anyone you guys suggest? Or is buying the 450 ip champs worth it to get them all?
Nunu in every lane
I am dead fucking serious
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On December 09 2012 13:23 ZeromuS wrote:
I play a lot of jungle but for the times i can't get that position, I want to get some solid all around good choices for champs for other roles.
Is there anyone you guys suggest? Or is buying the 450 ip champs worth it to get them all?
All the 450s, definitely
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On December 09 2012 13:18 TheYango wrote:
Not really. It builds from a BF Sword, and a lopsided MR-only item that builds from Negatron+850 gold. Those are comparatively expensive parts, while the only part of Liandry's and BC that cost more than 600 gold is the final recipe. It's a powerful item, but it also has a poor buildup. That's why QSS/Mercurial is most often a lategame item.
The comparison I'd give you is BKB vs. Janggo. Obviously BKB gives you an immensely powerful item effect and the item is extremely powerful based on that. But you could hardly say the item has a smooth buildup, given you have to build moderately-priced parts that don't give well-rounded smooth stats.
You can't compare buildups between dota and LoL, there is a definite lack of courier or side/secret shops in LoL. Cheap item buildups are far more valuable in Dota than in LoL specifically because of this lack. it simply isn't efficient to go back to base every 500 gold. "build-up" doesn't matter too much when you go back buy a full guise and come back in lane. it's the same as buying a BF sword straight. BF sword and negatron and the qss recipe all offer leaps in laning power. getting an amp tome and a ruby crystal doesn't affect the lane much at all unless you get it right as you can afford it.
the sweet spot for items in LoL is the 700-1400 range for cost not 400-500.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 09 2012 13:22 101toss wrote:
I would rather keep the guise until I'm full on slots and buy a blasting wand instead. Liandry's is just a thing to ensure guise isn't a dead end item (kinda like old brutalizer->ghostblade).
The thing is, the amount of high-effectiveness small items in the game means you have the potential to hit that "6 item" point very early holding small, cost-efficient items. Stuff like Bottle and Sightstone fill slots extremely early, and part of the efficiency of a smooth-buildup midgame item is that you don't need to sell those items to maintain effectiveness.
This isn't the same game as it used to be where "6 items" meant 50+ minutes in the game, The cost/slot-efficiency tradeoff that Riot's created allows you to have a "midgame 6 item" scenario akin to what can be common in DotA.
On December 09 2012 13:27 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2012 13:18 TheYango wrote:
Not really. It builds from a BF Sword, and a lopsided MR-only item that builds from Negatron+850 gold. Those are comparatively expensive parts, while the only part of Liandry's and BC that cost more than 600 gold is the final recipe. It's a powerful item, but it also has a poor buildup. That's why QSS/Mercurial is most often a lategame item.
The comparison I'd give you is BKB vs. Janggo. Obviously BKB gives you an immensely powerful item effect and the item is extremely powerful based on that. But you could hardly say the item has a smooth buildup, given you have to build moderately-priced parts that don't give well-rounded smooth stats. You can't compare buildups between dota and LoL, there is a definite lack of courier or side/secret shops in LoL. Cheap item buildups are far more valuable in Dota than in LoL specifically because of this lack. it simply isn't efficient to go back to base every 500 gold. "build-up" doesn't matter too much when you go back buy a full guise and come back in lane. it's the same as buying a BF sword straight. BF sword and negatron and the qss recipe all offer leaps in laning power. getting an amp tome and a ruby crystal doesn't affect the lane much at all unless you get it right as you can afford it. the sweet spot for items in LoL is the 700-1400 range for cost not 400-500.
QSS offers an AD a leap in laning power against an all-physical damage lane?
What?
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Wingsofdeath's Talon runepage is called "League of Cleavers". How appropriate.
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On December 09 2012 13:28 TheYango wrote:
QSS offers an AD a leap in laning power against an all-physical damage lane?
What?
What? QSS offers security from a gank in addition to a reduction of almost ubiquitous magic damage sources (support/ez/trist/mf/varus for bot, the other mid laner for mid lane on ad mids, and the other top laner with a few exceptions)
The most popular supports and carries (except vayne) all provide decently large magic damage amounts, zyra sona lulu leona taric
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rofl...TOO bought banner of command, but all 3 inhibs are down LOL
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It's fine, it allowed me to learn something. 
Also people seem way higher on HP, but that's maybe because I watch a lot of junglers so they all play tanky champs and stack HP since resists are weaker now.
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My only complaint about Liandry's is that it's passive is a bit odd. Flat penetration works the best against squishies, so it's favoured by assassins. But the % current health bonus works better for sustained damage/DoT dealers.
For example building it on Katarina seems a little weird. She mostly does burst and cleanup and it's hard for me to see how Liandry's will contribute to a lot of damage.
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wingsofdeathx on Shake:
"Yeah I might've seen this guy before"
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On December 09 2012 13:27 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2012 13:18 TheYango wrote:
Not really. It builds from a BF Sword, and a lopsided MR-only item that builds from Negatron+850 gold. Those are comparatively expensive parts, while the only part of Liandry's and BC that cost more than 600 gold is the final recipe. It's a powerful item, but it also has a poor buildup. That's why QSS/Mercurial is most often a lategame item.
The comparison I'd give you is BKB vs. Janggo. Obviously BKB gives you an immensely powerful item effect and the item is extremely powerful based on that. But you could hardly say the item has a smooth buildup, given you have to build moderately-priced parts that don't give well-rounded smooth stats. You can't compare buildups between dota and LoL, there is a definite lack of courier or side/secret shops in LoL. Cheap item buildups are far more valuable in Dota than in LoL specifically because of this lack. it simply isn't efficient to go back to base every 500 gold. "build-up" doesn't matter too much when you go back buy a full guise and come back in lane. it's the same as buying a BF sword straight. BF sword and negatron and the qss recipe all offer leaps in laning power. getting an amp tome and a ruby crystal doesn't affect the lane much at all unless you get it right as you can afford it. the sweet spot for items in LoL is the 700-1400 range for cost not 400-500.
You don't need to, but the ability to have the option to is not a bad thing. If I have the lead and am at a point to hop back to pick a 2nd dblade or upgrade to a vamp scepter, I will. If I'm behind and I can't afford to wait for BF on the way to IE, I will play low econ and pick up pickaxe or cloak of agility. Getting BF and NLR are big power jumps, but they cause large periods of stagnation. If you're ahead they allow the ability to catch up. If you're behind, you'll most likely fall farther behind.
Items with low cost components allow for a greater flexibility in how you can play with the situations you can be presented with.
On December 09 2012 13:36 Sufficiency wrote:
My only complaint about Liandry's is that it's passive is a bit odd. Flat penetration works the best against squishies, so it's favoured by assassins. But the % current health bonus works better for sustained damage/DoT dealers.
For example building it on Katarina seems a little weird. She mostly does burst and cleanup and it's hard for me to see how Liandry's will contribute to a lot of damage.
Xyph brought something up when people were raging about MBR getting removed. The intention of MBR was to have it counter tanks, but since tankyness became relative to resists moreso than HP it ended up being better at killing squishies as opposed to tanks. Moving to % current health is an effort to, with the higher incentive of health over resists with cost changes, reverse this unintended result.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 09 2012 13:32 PrinceXizor wrote:
The most popular supports and carries (except vayne) all provide decently large magic damage amounts, zyra sona lulu leona taric
But not so much as to make MR more cost-efficient as an early survivability stat compared to HP. Especially since HP has superior EHP/gold at most low-level stat mixes that resist do even when your damage sources are extremely lopsided.
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so apparently the whole attack speed thing was supposed to help nerf irelia.
So apparently when you build her celerity+trinity+zephyr you can outrun an ulting mundo while cleavered. The new antislow/tenacity stack makes her pretty much immune to everything while having like 480 move speed with that build. New spirit visage doesn't hurt her either.
I am really, really scared of what good irelia players will do with her.
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On December 09 2012 13:38 Praetorial wrote:
wingsofdeathx on Shake:
"Yeah I might've seen this guy before"
wtf he's been on my friends list for 2 years.
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On December 09 2012 13:42 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
so apparently the whole attack speed thing was supposed to help nerf irelia.
So apparently when you build her celerity+trinity+zephyr you can outrun an ulting mundo while cleavered. The new antislow/tenacity stack makes her pretty much immune to everything while having like 480 move speed with that build. New spirit visage doesn't hurt her either.
I am really, really scared of what good irelia players will do with her.
That's because Irelier is bullshit.
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On December 09 2012 13:41 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2012 13:32 PrinceXizor wrote:
The most popular supports and carries (except vayne) all provide decently large magic damage amounts, zyra sona lulu leona taric But not so much as to make MR more cost-efficient as an early survivability stat compared to HP. Especially since HP has superior EHP/gold at most low-level stat mixes that resist do even when your damage sources are extremely lopsided.
negatron reduces the magic damage you'll take in a trade or engagement bot lane by 40%, assuming you have more than one fight in bot lane negatron is worth more than a ruby crystal by a factor of 2. based on Sona's damage, which is a little less than leona/zyra/taric. You should be getting close to a ruby crystal of hp for free every fight, and let's not forget the point you tend to bring up consistently, resists scale better with lifesteal/regen/heals than pure hp.
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On December 09 2012 13:22 101toss wrote:
Liandry's costs 980 to make from book and guise.
For 980 you get:
0 health
0 penetration
25 ap
That passive
Now ask yourself about the passive. Does it really do that much damage? Remember this thing scales off CURRENT health. This means that anyone who died to a teemo shroom probably would have died with or without liandry's (if someone has 500 health left, 10% before resists of that is negligible). The only time it does decent damage is when everyone is around full health, and at that point when you have liandry's, people will be running around with oracles among other things.
I would rather keep the guise until I'm full on slots and buy a blasting wand instead. Liandry's is just a thing to ensure guise isn't a dead end item (kinda like old brutalizer->ghostblade).
Well, given that teemo's shroom has a 0.8 AP ratio, 50 damage is equivalent to 62.5 AP worth of additional damage, and if you ask me if I would pay 980g for 87.5AP I'd say fuck yes
If the guy walking over the shroom had 2000 hp instead, the cost-effectiveness of liandry is just insane.
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LOL. shake outganking shaco. Wings and Shaco accusing him of ghosting. (wings started it)
or well, wings mentions that someone might (possible) is ghosting him and shaco went crazy on shake.
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EPT
