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On December 05 2012 02:52 adriftt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 01:53 Irave wrote:On December 05 2012 01:46 Sandster wrote:On December 05 2012 01:44 adriftt wrote:
I really don;t understand what they are thinking with the ward/oracle changes. Sighstone is a ridiculous item that can be bought on everything except AD carry. With the oracle nerf.. theres going to be 1000 wards everywhere in competitive games and its even harder to go oracle when behind because its temporary now.
They should have made Oracle transfer to whoever kills you but still be permanent. So if one team is ahead you can comeback by killing their oracle and getting a free one. If anything they needed to nerf oracles and make wards more expensive. They did, I imagine the use of pink wards during lane phase will skyrocket. As well I think people are overreacting at the thought that everyone but the adc will have a sightstone. Maybe not in solo queue. And definitely not at lower ratings. But in competitive play? Think about it like this. If you buy 10 wards in the course of a game that is 750 gold. Its very rare for a jungler/support/solo laner to not buy at least 10 wards in a tournament setting. Sightstone gives you nearly infinite wards + 100 HP for 700g. Think about mid lane before. 2x Doran was not uncommon. That is 950g for 160 HP, 30 AP, and mana 6 mana regen. On top of that its common for mid lane at high levels to buy 2 wards basically every time they back. Now I can have 1x Doran + Sightstone for 1175. That gives me 180 HP, 15 AP, 3 mana regen + new passive and nearly infinite wards. The 275 G cost difference is offset and then some by spending 0 gold on wards. Not to mention you can sell the item back for 490 so its pays for itself after only using 3 wards. Then I just keep it until I'm ready to buy my sixth item and sell it. No need to upgrade it or anything. And I really think making Oracle permanent again but transferable on death is the perfect solution. They didn't like how snowbally it was for a jungler to buy an early oracle. Now, if you are ahead and buy an oracle you run the risk of potentially giving it to the other team which will help them come back. On the flip side, if you are behind you don't have to take the hgue risk of spending 400g of an oracle to try and come back. You can try to make a play on their jungler if/when they buy it and spend your 400g on the items that you need. As it is now, how will you ever come back in a competitive game? Spending 400g on a 5 minute oracle is a huge risk when already behind. There will be wards EVERYWHERE with this sightstone. The only person that can really justify spending 400g is the jungler that is already ahead in an attempt to snowball even further.
Don't forget that your team is also going to have Sightstone. The enemy may ward the crap out of your jungle and clear your wards with Oracle's, but while you're giving them 25g per ward it's not costing you much to keep returning to base to refresh your stack.
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On December 05 2012 03:19 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 02:52 adriftt wrote:On December 05 2012 01:53 Irave wrote:On December 05 2012 01:46 Sandster wrote:On December 05 2012 01:44 adriftt wrote:
I really don;t understand what they are thinking with the ward/oracle changes. Sighstone is a ridiculous item that can be bought on everything except AD carry. With the oracle nerf.. theres going to be 1000 wards everywhere in competitive games and its even harder to go oracle when behind because its temporary now.
They should have made Oracle transfer to whoever kills you but still be permanent. So if one team is ahead you can comeback by killing their oracle and getting a free one. If anything they needed to nerf oracles and make wards more expensive. They did, I imagine the use of pink wards during lane phase will skyrocket. As well I think people are overreacting at the thought that everyone but the adc will have a sightstone. Maybe not in solo queue. And definitely not at lower ratings. But in competitive play? Think about it like this. If you buy 10 wards in the course of a game that is 750 gold. Its very rare for a jungler/support/solo laner to not buy at least 10 wards in a tournament setting. Sightstone gives you nearly infinite wards + 100 HP for 700g. Think about mid lane before. 2x Doran was not uncommon. That is 950g for 160 HP, 30 AP, and mana 6 mana regen. On top of that its common for mid lane at high levels to buy 2 wards basically every time they back. Now I can have 1x Doran + Sightstone for 1175. That gives me 180 HP, 15 AP, 3 mana regen + new passive and nearly infinite wards. The 275 G cost difference is offset and then some by spending 0 gold on wards. Not to mention you can sell the item back for 490 so its pays for itself after only using 3 wards. Then I just keep it until I'm ready to buy my sixth item and sell it. No need to upgrade it or anything. And I really think making Oracle permanent again but transferable on death is the perfect solution. They didn't like how snowbally it was for a jungler to buy an early oracle. Now, if you are ahead and buy an oracle you run the risk of potentially giving it to the other team which will help them come back. On the flip side, if you are behind you don't have to take the hgue risk of spending 400g of an oracle to try and come back. You can try to make a play on their jungler if/when they buy it and spend your 400g on the items that you need. As it is now, how will you ever come back in a competitive game? Spending 400g on a 5 minute oracle is a huge risk when already behind. There will be wards EVERYWHERE with this sightstone. The only person that can really justify spending 400g is the jungler that is already ahead in an attempt to snowball even further. Don't forget that your team is also going to have Sightstone. The enemy may ward the crap out of your jungle and clear your wards with Oracle's, but while you're giving them 25g per ward it's not costing you much to keep returning to base to refresh your stack.
It's 10g a ward now btw.
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Been thinking of a new summoner spell : what if we could have one with a similar effect to zonhya, maybe shorter (1s ? 1.5s ?), with a pretty long CD ?
It wouldn't as OP as flash, but would open the way to some VERY cool plays, like auto/CC dodging, real reaction based plays... ^_^
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On December 05 2012 03:22 mr_tolkien wrote:
Been thinking of a new summoner spell : what if we could have one with a similar effect to zonhya, maybe shorter (1s ? 1.5s ?), with a pretty long CD ?
It wouldn't as OP as flash, but would open the way to some VERY cool plays, like auto/CC dodging, real reaction based plays... ^_^
just bring back old flash that popped projectiles. it was op but i miss it. IE: you could flash when a taric stun or someones auto attack was mid air and it would not hit you. like blink works in dota
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played my first game, sightstone is just as ridiculous as you think it is.
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On December 05 2012 03:23 adriftt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 03:22 mr_tolkien wrote:
Been thinking of a new summoner spell : what if we could have one with a similar effect to zonhya, maybe shorter (1s ? 1.5s ?), with a pretty long CD ?
It wouldn't as OP as flash, but would open the way to some VERY cool plays, like auto/CC dodging, real reaction based plays... ^_^ just bring back old flash that popped projectiles. it was op but i miss it. IE: you could flash when a taric stun or someones auto attack was mid air and it would not hit you. like blink works in dota
Yeah that's pretty much what I would like, but it would be OP in LoL with the mobility it gives. So why not scrap off the mobility and create a summoner whose purpose is purely dodging shit and looking cool ? :D
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On December 05 2012 03:22 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 03:19 Seuss wrote:On December 05 2012 02:52 adriftt wrote:On December 05 2012 01:53 Irave wrote:On December 05 2012 01:46 Sandster wrote:On December 05 2012 01:44 adriftt wrote:
I really don;t understand what they are thinking with the ward/oracle changes. Sighstone is a ridiculous item that can be bought on everything except AD carry. With the oracle nerf.. theres going to be 1000 wards everywhere in competitive games and its even harder to go oracle when behind because its temporary now.
They should have made Oracle transfer to whoever kills you but still be permanent. So if one team is ahead you can comeback by killing their oracle and getting a free one. If anything they needed to nerf oracles and make wards more expensive. They did, I imagine the use of pink wards during lane phase will skyrocket. As well I think people are overreacting at the thought that everyone but the adc will have a sightstone. Maybe not in solo queue. And definitely not at lower ratings. But in competitive play? Think about it like this. If you buy 10 wards in the course of a game that is 750 gold. Its very rare for a jungler/support/solo laner to not buy at least 10 wards in a tournament setting. Sightstone gives you nearly infinite wards + 100 HP for 700g. Think about mid lane before. 2x Doran was not uncommon. That is 950g for 160 HP, 30 AP, and mana 6 mana regen. On top of that its common for mid lane at high levels to buy 2 wards basically every time they back. Now I can have 1x Doran + Sightstone for 1175. That gives me 180 HP, 15 AP, 3 mana regen + new passive and nearly infinite wards. The 275 G cost difference is offset and then some by spending 0 gold on wards. Not to mention you can sell the item back for 490 so its pays for itself after only using 3 wards. Then I just keep it until I'm ready to buy my sixth item and sell it. No need to upgrade it or anything. And I really think making Oracle permanent again but transferable on death is the perfect solution. They didn't like how snowbally it was for a jungler to buy an early oracle. Now, if you are ahead and buy an oracle you run the risk of potentially giving it to the other team which will help them come back. On the flip side, if you are behind you don't have to take the hgue risk of spending 400g of an oracle to try and come back. You can try to make a play on their jungler if/when they buy it and spend your 400g on the items that you need. As it is now, how will you ever come back in a competitive game? Spending 400g on a 5 minute oracle is a huge risk when already behind. There will be wards EVERYWHERE with this sightstone. The only person that can really justify spending 400g is the jungler that is already ahead in an attempt to snowball even further. Don't forget that your team is also going to have Sightstone. The enemy may ward the crap out of your jungle and clear your wards with Oracle's, but while you're giving them 25g per ward it's not costing you much to keep returning to base to refresh your stack. It's 10g a ward now btw.
Would you believe me if I told you that none of my opponents on the PBE at any point placed wards when I jungled and thus I missed this impressively important fact?
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On December 05 2012 03:28 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 03:22 arb wrote:On December 05 2012 03:19 Seuss wrote:On December 05 2012 02:52 adriftt wrote:On December 05 2012 01:53 Irave wrote:On December 05 2012 01:46 Sandster wrote:On December 05 2012 01:44 adriftt wrote:
I really don;t understand what they are thinking with the ward/oracle changes. Sighstone is a ridiculous item that can be bought on everything except AD carry. With the oracle nerf.. theres going to be 1000 wards everywhere in competitive games and its even harder to go oracle when behind because its temporary now.
They should have made Oracle transfer to whoever kills you but still be permanent. So if one team is ahead you can comeback by killing their oracle and getting a free one. If anything they needed to nerf oracles and make wards more expensive. They did, I imagine the use of pink wards during lane phase will skyrocket. As well I think people are overreacting at the thought that everyone but the adc will have a sightstone. Maybe not in solo queue. And definitely not at lower ratings. But in competitive play? Think about it like this. If you buy 10 wards in the course of a game that is 750 gold. Its very rare for a jungler/support/solo laner to not buy at least 10 wards in a tournament setting. Sightstone gives you nearly infinite wards + 100 HP for 700g. Think about mid lane before. 2x Doran was not uncommon. That is 950g for 160 HP, 30 AP, and mana 6 mana regen. On top of that its common for mid lane at high levels to buy 2 wards basically every time they back. Now I can have 1x Doran + Sightstone for 1175. That gives me 180 HP, 15 AP, 3 mana regen + new passive and nearly infinite wards. The 275 G cost difference is offset and then some by spending 0 gold on wards. Not to mention you can sell the item back for 490 so its pays for itself after only using 3 wards. Then I just keep it until I'm ready to buy my sixth item and sell it. No need to upgrade it or anything. And I really think making Oracle permanent again but transferable on death is the perfect solution. They didn't like how snowbally it was for a jungler to buy an early oracle. Now, if you are ahead and buy an oracle you run the risk of potentially giving it to the other team which will help them come back. On the flip side, if you are behind you don't have to take the hgue risk of spending 400g of an oracle to try and come back. You can try to make a play on their jungler if/when they buy it and spend your 400g on the items that you need. As it is now, how will you ever come back in a competitive game? Spending 400g on a 5 minute oracle is a huge risk when already behind. There will be wards EVERYWHERE with this sightstone. The only person that can really justify spending 400g is the jungler that is already ahead in an attempt to snowball even further. Don't forget that your team is also going to have Sightstone. The enemy may ward the crap out of your jungle and clear your wards with Oracle's, but while you're giving them 25g per ward it's not costing you much to keep returning to base to refresh your stack. It's 10g a ward now btw. Would you believe me if I told you that none of my opponents on the PBE at any point placed wards when I jungled and thus I missed this impressively important fact?
I would be amazed if there were wards to kill on the PBE
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On December 05 2012 03:25 UniversalSnip wrote:
played my first game, sightstone is just as ridiculous as you think it is.
Yeah its pretty dumb, buy a sightstone for next to nothing, then you no longer have to spend 225~ gold or something a trip on wards, and are perfectly safe from ganks. Totally fair.
on a side note, spellsword is so underwhelming its kinda unreal
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On December 05 2012 03:26 mr_tolkien wrote:
Yeah that's pretty much what I would like, but it would be OP in LoL with the mobility it gives. So why not scrap off the mobility and create a summoner whose purpose is purely dodging shit and looking cool ? :D
puck out.
i definitely like skill based dodging. having an item with puck's jaunt as an active would be sick.
but then you have the complete opposite in this game, when you flash away from darius and he dunks you from mega far away.
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On December 05 2012 03:28 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 03:22 arb wrote:On December 05 2012 03:19 Seuss wrote:On December 05 2012 02:52 adriftt wrote:On December 05 2012 01:53 Irave wrote:On December 05 2012 01:46 Sandster wrote:On December 05 2012 01:44 adriftt wrote:
I really don;t understand what they are thinking with the ward/oracle changes. Sighstone is a ridiculous item that can be bought on everything except AD carry. With the oracle nerf.. theres going to be 1000 wards everywhere in competitive games and its even harder to go oracle when behind because its temporary now.
They should have made Oracle transfer to whoever kills you but still be permanent. So if one team is ahead you can comeback by killing their oracle and getting a free one. If anything they needed to nerf oracles and make wards more expensive. They did, I imagine the use of pink wards during lane phase will skyrocket. As well I think people are overreacting at the thought that everyone but the adc will have a sightstone. Maybe not in solo queue. And definitely not at lower ratings. But in competitive play? Think about it like this. If you buy 10 wards in the course of a game that is 750 gold. Its very rare for a jungler/support/solo laner to not buy at least 10 wards in a tournament setting. Sightstone gives you nearly infinite wards + 100 HP for 700g. Think about mid lane before. 2x Doran was not uncommon. That is 950g for 160 HP, 30 AP, and mana 6 mana regen. On top of that its common for mid lane at high levels to buy 2 wards basically every time they back. Now I can have 1x Doran + Sightstone for 1175. That gives me 180 HP, 15 AP, 3 mana regen + new passive and nearly infinite wards. The 275 G cost difference is offset and then some by spending 0 gold on wards. Not to mention you can sell the item back for 490 so its pays for itself after only using 3 wards. Then I just keep it until I'm ready to buy my sixth item and sell it. No need to upgrade it or anything. And I really think making Oracle permanent again but transferable on death is the perfect solution. They didn't like how snowbally it was for a jungler to buy an early oracle. Now, if you are ahead and buy an oracle you run the risk of potentially giving it to the other team which will help them come back. On the flip side, if you are behind you don't have to take the hgue risk of spending 400g of an oracle to try and come back. You can try to make a play on their jungler if/when they buy it and spend your 400g on the items that you need. As it is now, how will you ever come back in a competitive game? Spending 400g on a 5 minute oracle is a huge risk when already behind. There will be wards EVERYWHERE with this sightstone. The only person that can really justify spending 400g is the jungler that is already ahead in an attempt to snowball even further. Don't forget that your team is also going to have Sightstone. The enemy may ward the crap out of your jungle and clear your wards with Oracle's, but while you're giving them 25g per ward it's not costing you much to keep returning to base to refresh your stack. It's 10g a ward now btw. Would you believe me if I told you that none of my opponents on the PBE at any point placed wards when I jungled and thus I missed this impressively important fact?
No, we're done falling for your lies and devilish ways. It was our fault for taking you back the first time you cheated on us, but we won't allow that same mistake to happen again.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 05 2012 03:09 Mementoss wrote:
So why more gold for doing nothing and less for farming?
Sure it allows supports to get more gold, but also rewards better players less for out farming their opponent.
There was a long discussion about this back when this news first came out. They also made this change in an attempt to slow down snownballing, now if you die and the enemy pushes to tower and you lose a creep wave you aren't going to be nearly as far behind. If it happens again and it starts to add up he's still going to gain an advantage. This isn't going to change things that much really, so now you don't have as large of an advantage if you're up by 20cs, it's not as if they made it so last hitting isn't an important part of the game.
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Honestly I think sightstone is just super OP and needs to be nerfed/removed. I also think it's bad design. CV was nerfed to shit because it granted too much unconditional vision on too low a cooldown. Sightstone does almost the same thing; it's essentially free wards past ward #3 (6 if you upgrade it). Wriggles used to give free wards but the cost of wriggles was not insignificant and it only granted 1 ward at a time. Sightstone grants 2, with 4 charges.
Iunno, I feel like sightstone is going to cause Riot some serious problems. It's probably going to promote more passive play, which imo is a bad thing.
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On December 05 2012 03:31 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 03:25 UniversalSnip wrote:
played my first game, sightstone is just as ridiculous as you think it is. Yeah its pretty dumb, buy a sightstone for next to nothing, then you no longer have to spend 225~ gold or something a trip on wards, and are perfectly safe from ganks. Totally fair. on a side note, spellsword is so underwhelming its kinda unreal
In your book, how much damage/on what champion would it have to be to be considered, uh, "whelming"?
For someone like Diana, who wants to auto a lot, or Annie, who has the range to use her autos quite a bit between bursts, I don't think it needs to do a lot of magic damage per hit to be worthwhile. But someone like Xerath, who wants to be as far away as humanly possible and maybe only gets off a couple autos, I can see it being very meh.
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Oh yea, did Riot give any reason as to why they removed Ionic Spark?
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On December 05 2012 03:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
Honestly I think sightstone is just super OP and needs to be nerfed/removed. I also think it's bad design. CV was nerfed to shit because it granted too much unconditional vision on too low a cooldown. Sightstone does almost the same thing; it's essentially free wards past ward #3 (6 if you upgrade it). Wriggles used to give free wards but the cost of wriggles was not insignificant and it only granted 1 ward at a time. Sightstone grants 2, with 4 charges.
Iunno, I feel like sightstone is going to cause Riot some serious problems. It's probably going to promote more passive play, which imo is a bad thing.
I think Sightstone was Riot's way of saying "we like fighting in lane, and jungle ganks were getting way the fuck too out of control. Now, free wards so ganks aren't as frequent/devestating, and laners are free to fight".
Which I can understand, but it's obviously going to have a lot more consequences. I kind of miss low level games, where there were no wards on either side, and stepping into the fog of war or the brush was like a terrifying adventure every time :D
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United States23745 Posts
On December 05 2012 03:38 Ryuu314 wrote:
Oh yea, did Riot give any reason as to why they removed Ionic Spark?
From this post.
Ionic Spark is a bit of a confusing item right now. Ionic Spark only fully synergizes with one or two champions (Shen, Gangplank), but it’s good to have an effective wave clearing option for characters that lack an innate ability to quickly deal with waves of minions. For a proc-build, Ionic Spark is awkward because it grants a very inconsistent proc that does some damage but is inferior to Wit’s End in a lot of cases.
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On December 05 2012 03:38 Ryuu314 wrote:
Oh yea, did Riot give any reason as to why they removed Ionic Spark?
They removed a lot of mid tier items that fell off lategame.
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United States23745 Posts
Oops, quoted myself instead of editing...
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thoughts on juggernaut vs tenacious for lee?
the extra 17 hp lvl 1 + 31 at lvl 10 seems pretty decent
but having mini-mercs lvl 1 makes me think that ganking lanes with slows/ensnares would be a lot easier.
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EPT
